Lordship salvation volume 3

[HankD]

Hank, I know you mean well, and I know that this feels very right to you, but what you are saying is bad wrong.

God is my Father is bad wrong?

Love is not perfection?

Colossians 3:14 But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection.

​

HankD

 

[Alive in Christ]

LDS?

Latter Day Saints??

 

[Luke2427]

If you are going to sit behind a keyboard and make false accusations, and take this thread down a nasty rabbit trail, it will have to be shut down, or I will ask another moderator to intervene. Do not tell me what I know and don't know for you do not have God's knowledge.

Consider this conversation closed.
Go back to the OP. If you continue in this vain it will either end up in posts being edited/deleted/ or the thread shut down.

This is low down. It is trashy to throw around your authority in a debate.

What you ought to do if you think you are being abused is ask ANOTHER moderator to intervene.

The fact of the matter is that you have no argument, you are getting thoroughly stomped here and you are frustrated so you retreat to your authority.

There have been dozens of complaints about you doing this kind of thing.

Stop it.

As to your argument about the epistles- repentance certainly is a major theme of the epistles.

Repent means to change one's mind. Almost all of the epistles emphasize that.

Repentance is changing one's way of thinking, his philosophy, his ideology. That may be the PRIMARY purpose of the epistles!

 

[Luke2427]

God is my Father is bad wrong?

HankD

Did you even read the post?

 

[JesusFan]

Yep.

DHK wants it his way though. You know, just believe, and that means you've repented too, because DHK says so. Because DHK fails to see the epistles are for the most part for Christian conduct, Acts and the Gospels are evangelistic.

He doesn't count what is at stake in his easy-believism error; unrepentant sinners who said a prayer. The adulterer, fornicator, thief, murderer, sodomite, drunkard, just tell Him you believe and you know, carry-on with all that and see you in heaven!!!

Must be a biblical position between the extremes of both "easy believism" and LDS though!

As I do hold that a genuine faith will mean that one has indeed be reborn from above, regenerated By god, under the reign of jesus, will desire to serveand love God now BUT

also hold to there being still a sin principle dwelling within us, old nature, that will fight us to NOT obey God, until day we get to heaven!

so the believer will be able to live for God by the HS in him now, but still can be tempted and even at times cave in to that pressure, but a genuine faith means that they will at some poit confess/repent and will find their way back to the Lord that redeemed them!

When they say "but should I not repent of my sins, as the folks in Scripture did too, and believe that God leads me to repentance, as in Romans 2:4, and therein show a changed life?" "No NO NO!!!!" says DHK. "Thats the truth that P4T, Iconoclast, Luke2427, freeatlast, Convicted1 and others preach, just believe, you're not commanded to repent after the evangelistic Gospels and Acts, we throw those commands in them to repent out these days, I know better than that, and I am never wrong!!!!!!!!!"

to me, the Lord will be at work in the life of one of His children who have choosen to sin , by chaisting them and convicting them to confess/repent and restore their fellowship/walk with God!

I still see the Biblle teaching that a real Christian call be tempted, even fall deep into 'besitting sins", but will nOT be happy nor content in that state, and will come back to God sometime!

 

[HankD]

Did you even read the post?

Yes, I read the post.

We disagree about relationships.

The shared relationship of love we have with God supercedes everything.

Here is a short list of proof texts:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.​

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.​

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.​

John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.​

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.​

John 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.​

John 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.​

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.​

Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?​

Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.​

1 Corinthians 8:3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

Galatians 5

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.​

Ephesians 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:​

Ephesians 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.​

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.​

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.​

1 John 4
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19 We love him, because he first loved us.
20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.​

My Christian experience has led me to the realization of the underlying theme of the Gospel and epistles of John.​

God is love.​

Yes Jesus is Lord.​

Our love for Him is the evidence.​

I would be content to say that we have a different ordering of values.​

Yours may well be right and mine wrong.​

HankD​

 

[Luke2427]

Yes, I read the post.

We disagree about relationships.

The shared relationship of love we have with God supercedes everything.

Here is a short list of proof texts:

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.​

Matthew 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.​

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.​

John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.​

John 14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.​

John 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.​

John 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.​

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.​

Romans 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?​

Romans 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.​

1 Corinthians 8:3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

Galatians 5

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.​

Ephesians 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:​

Ephesians 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.​

1 John 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.​

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.​

1 John 4
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.
12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.
16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.
18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.
19 We love him, because he first loved us.
20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.​

My Christian experience has led me to the realization of the underlying theme of the Gospel and epistles of John.​

God is love.​

Yes Jesus is Lord.​

Our love for Him is the evidence.​

I would be content to say that we have a different ordering of values.​

Yours may well be right and mine wrong.​

HankD​

God is love.
But the preponderance of Scripture establishes that he wants us to think of him first and foremost as LORD.
He actually does NOT love everyone (Lucifer for example) but he is Lord of ALL.

 

[DHK]

This is low down. It is trashy to throw around your authority in a debate.

What you ought to do if you think you are being abused is ask ANOTHER moderator to intervene.

The fact of the matter is that you have no argument, you are getting thoroughly stomped here and you are frustrated so you retreat to your authority.

I have given my argument. I don't like repeating it over and over again for those that ignore my posts. In veiled language to call me ignorant is not the road I want to take. And you should not be bringing this up.

There have been dozens of complaints about you doing this kind of thing.

Stop it.

Since when did you become moderator. May I remind you of the infractions that you have had against yourself, none of which were given by me.

As to your argument about the epistles- repentance certainly is a major theme of the epistles.

Repentance is a major theme in the epistles for the saved not the unsaved. If you think otherwise provide Scripture.

Repent means to change one's mind. Almost all of the epistles emphasize that.

You have not been following this discussion very well. I never denied that repentance is needed. If you don't follow the discussion then don't chime in at the last moment and offer your two cents worth being ignorant of what was said before hand.

Repentance is changing one's way of thinking, his philosophy, his ideology. That may be the PRIMARY purpose of the epistles!

In the epistles it relates to the believer; and rarely if ever relates to the unbeliever. However salvation is by faith. That is what is taught in the epistles. One cannot have faith without repentance as I have been teaching all along. And if you have missed that point you haven't been following this discussion.

 

[preacher4truth]

This is low down. It is trashy to throw around your authority in a debate.

What you ought to do if you think you are being abused is ask ANOTHER moderator to intervene.

The fact of the matter is that you have no argument, you are getting thoroughly stomped here and you are frustrated so you retreat to your authority.

There have been dozens of complaints about you doing this kind of thing.

Stop it.

As to your argument about the epistles- repentance certainly is a major theme of the epistles.

Repent means to change one's mind. Almost all of the epistles emphasize that.

Repentance is changing one's way of thinking, his philosophy, his ideology. That may be the PRIMARY purpose of the epistles!

Amen!!! :thumbsup:

 

[HankD]

God is love.
But the preponderance of Scripture establishes that he wants us to think of him first and foremost as LORD.
He actually does NOT love everyone (Lucifer for example) but he is Lord of ALL.

Yes, but He loves His children above Lucifer and the lost.

Romans 8

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:​

Galatians 4

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.​

HankD

 

[quantumfaith]

God is my Father is bad wrong?

Love is not perfection?

Colossians 3:14 But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection.

​

HankD

Your post Hank was right on! :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8 Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love. 9 This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the world that we might live through him. 10 This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins. 11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. 12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.
13 This is how we know that we live in him and he in us: He has given us of his Spirit. 14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God. 16 And so we know and rely on the love God has for us.

God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in them. 17 This is how love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgment: In this world we are like Jesus. 18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.

19 We love because he first loved us. 20 Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen. 21 And he has given us this command: Anyone who loves God must also love their brother and sister.

 

[Luke2427]

Yes, but He loves His children above Lucifer and the lost.

Romans 8

15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:​

Galatians 4

6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.​

HankD

But he is not Lord of some or most. His Lordship doesn't vary. That cannot be said about God's Love.

 

[quantumfaith]

He is Lord of all, whether or not the recognize it or submit to it.

At the name of Jesus, every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord of all.

 

[HankD]

But he is not Lord of some or most. His Lordship doesn't vary. That cannot be said about God's Love.

I see your point.

God's love is infinite and eternal for His children.

Like I said I am content to leave it here.

Take the last word brother - if you wish - and I won't respond unless you ask for a response.

HankD

 

[freeatlast]

He is Lord of all, whether or not the recognize it or submit to it.

At the name of Jesus, every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord of all.

That is true of His status although not necessarily in the practice of the life of all. Until the person receives Him as their Lord they remain lost.

Some have satan as their god. While there is a time that all will bow and confess that does not mean because they willfully surrendered to His Lordship. Without that surrender a person remains in rebellion and remains lost. No one gets saved by just accepting Him as Savior.

 

[preacher4truth]

That is true of His status although not necessarily in the practice of the life of all. Until the person receives Him as their Lord they remain lost.

Some have satan as their god. While there is a time that all will bow and confess that does not mean because they willfully surrendered to His Lordship. Without that surrender a person remains in rebellion and remains lost. No one gets saved by just accepting Him as Savior.

The problem is, people want to be saved from the punishment of their sins, and still live in them, wanting and hoping only to escape hell, this instead of where true repentance takes them, and that is salvation from the power of sin in their lives.

This is why repentance is necessary in salvation. God leads us by His goodness to such a place. There is no salvation without repentance.

 

[DHK]

The heart of the OP is stated here by AIC:

No problem with that at all, but....if a believer should..for whatever reason..fall into inconsistant living, or go back to some bad things that he used to do as alost person, his salvation as a child of God is not disturbed in any way.

He was regenerated, and that is a (((FOREVER))) encounter. He has become an "unprofitable servant", and God will deal with him...but his standing as a child of God is permanant.

 

[freeatlast]

The heart of the OP is stated here by AIC:

While it is true we cannot lose our salvation what is not true is that a Christian can return to his/her lost ways as a practice.
1John 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.

 

[freeatlast]

The problem is, people want to be saved from the punishment of their sins, and still live in them, wanting and hoping only to escape hell, this instead of where true repentance takes them, and that is salvation from the power of sin in their lives.

This is why repentance is necessary in salvation. God leads us by His goodness to such a place. There is no salvation without repentance.

Yes I agree and more important so does the word of God.

 

[Winman]

Lordship Salvation cannot be true because the scriptures say we NOW are the sons of God.

1 Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.

If LS is true, no man could say he is NOW a son of God, because there is no guarantee any person shall persevere and remain submissive and obedient.