As the OP suggests you cannot be the judge of that. God knows and God will be the judge. There is a reason why Hebrews 12 was written. God chastises his own children, those who have gone astray; those who have backslidden; those who have stepped out of his will; those who have sinned or even lived in sin. God deals with them as a father disciplines his own child. The prodigal son is a good example of a father who never forgot about his wayward son. The repentance was that of a wayward believer. The one that was lost was the older son who refused to rejoice in the blessing of his father but stood outside and wallowed in his own self-righteousness.
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Lordship salvation volume 3
- Thread starter Alive in Christ
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freeatlast
New Member
It does not take a judge. It takes beliving what the Lord says in His word. The prodigal is not about a saved person. It is about a lost people returning to their God. The Prodigal was lost.
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
A father/son relationship is never broken. He was not lost or disowned. He was prodigal, gone astray, even as the parable is entitled.
Lost as in away from his father. Not lost as in damned to hell.
The word dead simply means separated. The son had been separated from his father. That is what being lost is, isn't it? When a child gets separated from his father he is lost. Now the father has found him. People read too much into the parable. dead means separation. The parable says he is a son. A son is always a son.
freeatlast
New Member
Yea right! :laugh:
The word translated Lost is the same Greek word used in 2 Cor 4 speaking of the Lost (condemned to hell)
The word translated dead means just that no life. It is exactly what is spoken about in the valley of dry bones. This is about lost Israel not a person who is save because a saved person cannot return to sinning. nopr is a saved person ever accused of being dead or lost. This is about the lost not the saved.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.
convicted1
Guest
Spot on, Brother Luke!! :thumbs:
Jesus is Lord and Saviour to those who believe, and not Lord or Saviour.
convicted1
Guest
Who are Paul's Epistles written too? The church at Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Rome, Phillipi(sp?), etc. The Church doesn't need to repent to God(for the sake of salvation, I mean), because they already have. Now, we do have to ask for forgiveness for the sins we commit, but not to repent for salvation's sake.
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convicted1
Guest
:thumbs::thumbs:
I was thinking the exact same thang, Brother!! :thumbsup::thumbsup: !!!!!
preacher4truth
Active Member
Thus his erroneous view here prevails failing to accept that he is incorrect first off, then, that the epistles are about Christian conduct, not generally evangelistic in nature. Not grasping the intended audience of the epistles leads to illogical conclusions about the necessity of repentance as a command not being a command any longer. This is fallacious, as repentance is commanded. The theme of repentance though does run through them as a lifestyle of repentance is the child of Gods practice.
Repentance does get mentioned within the epistles. God also awaits the lost to come to repentance in 2 Peter 3:9. Note it is not come to "faith" it is to come to "repentance" a state to where God does lead, Romans 2:4.
Are you saying that IF one is really saved by god, will not be even able to practice prior sins?
What about a person delivered from alcohol by God, yet still tempted, might even still get drunk at times?
freeatlast
New Member
No I am not saying that. The Lord is. Being tempted at times is not the same as practicing sin prior or any other kind.
Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God
We could same thing about the Book of Acts? Was it written to unbelievers?
What about the Book of Romans. Then entire epistle is a treatise on soteriology. Many use it as a guide to show people the way of salvation (hence the Romans Road).
Likewise there are many salvation Scriptures in 1John 5 and in 1Cor.15 where the entire gospel is explained.
I find your excuse lame and wanting. The gospel is explained over and over again in the epistles, but without a direct emphasis on repentance.
The simple verse in Romans 5:1 demonstrates this well:
"Therefore being justified by faith we have peace with God."
Do you think they can submit to the temptation and be sinning while still be really saved?
Alive in Christ
New Member
Jesusfan...
You asked freeatlast...
While waiting for freeatlast to respond, I'll chime in.
Of course they are still saved.
We all, you, me, and every other christian who has ever lived keep on sinning after conversion.
Nobody attains sinless perfection until they arive in heaven. Until then, we are all sinners. We may sin less, and we may not sin as grieviously, but God does not grade on the curve.
We all still sin. God chastises us, we respond, but sometime down the road we sin again.
And on and on it goes with all of us.
But we never...never....NEVER lose our salvation.
Faith, and faith alone, guarentees that.
Gosh, it just amazes me that this keeps coming up. I mean, if you take into consideration what sin is...
Anything less than the perfection of God, and complete sinlessness in deed, thought. and motive.
With THAT in mind...how can ANYONE claim any kind of self-rightiousness, or hold to any sense of ((SHOCK)) at the thought of anyone else sinning, or they themsleves sinning.
We are sinners! Its what we do! To be honest, what shocks me is that Christ actually wants to live in me, and bless others through me. THAT shocks me! And in addition...We have also been given a new identity...
A child of God! and a Saint!!
Do we sin less than we used to? Of course. And it should continue to get less and less. I know that in my case it certainly has.
But I still blow at times. We all do.
Thank you Jesus, for condescenging to use me for your purposes.
raying:
You asked freeatlast...
While waiting for freeatlast to respond, I'll chime in.
Of course they are still saved.
We all, you, me, and every other christian who has ever lived keep on sinning after conversion.
Nobody attains sinless perfection until they arive in heaven. Until then, we are all sinners. We may sin less, and we may not sin as grieviously, but God does not grade on the curve.
We all still sin. God chastises us, we respond, but sometime down the road we sin again.
And on and on it goes with all of us.
But we never...never....NEVER lose our salvation.
Faith, and faith alone, guarentees that.
Gosh, it just amazes me that this keeps coming up. I mean, if you take into consideration what sin is...
Anything less than the perfection of God, and complete sinlessness in deed, thought. and motive.
With THAT in mind...how can ANYONE claim any kind of self-rightiousness, or hold to any sense of ((SHOCK)) at the thought of anyone else sinning, or they themsleves sinning.
We are sinners! Its what we do! To be honest, what shocks me is that Christ actually wants to live in me, and bless others through me. THAT shocks me! And in addition...We have also been given a new identity...
A child of God! and a Saint!!
Do we sin less than we used to? Of course. And it should continue to get less and less. I know that in my case it certainly has.
But I still blow at times. We all do.
Thank you Jesus, for condescenging to use me for your purposes.
raying:
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John 12:42-43 presents a huge problem to Lordship Salvation.
Jn 12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
These verses say many of the chief rulers believed on Jesus, but did not confess him for fear of being put out of the synagogue. It also says they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
Were these men saved? I believe they were, the scriptures never call an unbeliever a believer. Yet they did not commit 100% to Jesus, they were afraid to confess him. They loved the praise of man more than God.
So, were these men saved? Can a man believe on Jesus and not be saved?
I would like those who believe in LS to address these verses and explain if they believe these men were saved or not.
Jn 12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
These verses say many of the chief rulers believed on Jesus, but did not confess him for fear of being put out of the synagogue. It also says they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
Were these men saved? I believe they were, the scriptures never call an unbeliever a believer. Yet they did not commit 100% to Jesus, they were afraid to confess him. They loved the praise of man more than God.
So, were these men saved? Can a man believe on Jesus and not be saved?
I would like those who believe in LS to address these verses and explain if they believe these men were saved or not.
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Alive in Christ
New Member
Excellant passage. And I agree with your estimation...of course those men were still saved.
We are NOT saved by works, but by faith (belief) in Christ alone.
Faith in Christ. Belief in Christ. Trusting Christ. Any of those will fit.
Christ + nothing.
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quantumfaith
Active Member
:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
No it does not present any problem whatsoever.
Everybody knows that one can believe in Christ and not be saved.
Have you not even READ the book of James???
Have you not even READ what Jesus said to those who believed in John 8???
freeatlast
New Member
I am not totally understanding your question, but in what I think it is asking here is my answer.
It is not about what I think or do not think. It is what is true based on the word of God. This is what He says;
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.
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