Calvinism takes Biblical Truth Too Far

So you acknowledge that there were Calvinists before John Calvin. Good. Because Luther, Wycliffe,Bradwardine,Gottschalk,the Venerable Bede,Augustine and others long before the man from Geneva such as Paul and our Lord all taught the pervasive corruption of man.

 

That is why we say that its strenght is that it takes into account the TOTALITY of the scriptures when trying to put together a consistent view on theology from the Bible...

That makes it easier to make into a systematic form...

Would say that it is NOT a perfect model to explain the Bible by, but is best that we presently have!

 

Rich young ruler came to jesus to justify himself, to show off just how "good" a person he was by keeping the law... Jesus revealed to him that law keeping would not save us, it needs a change of heart, and the ruler went off, as natural man receives NOT the things of the Spirit!

IF this was a ballgame, you would have been striking out your "Cal strawmen", while rest of us just are amused and feel sorry for you meaderings on this!

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: .................................

 

Be careful, you may hurt his feelings.

 

Winman,
you posted this;

As long as you can make this post.....and not see your error.....you will not come to truth at all. This is basic bible ...your view is a denial of the reality of The Spirits work in new birth....if understood and thought out.

Winman
1]..........ALL men everywhere[by physical birth] are dead in ADAM

2]..........................All men In Christ {by new birth, born from above} and them only are ALIVE in Christ

The Apostle Paul clarifies it for anyone who has eyes to see:thumbs:

EVERY person is physically born........ALL in Adam
ONLY the elect are spiritually born from above.....ALL In Christ

No new birth, no heaven.

ALL...........gets defined by the rest of the scriptures.....not by you.

 

Van is the Voltaire of our age. Van claims to have single-handedly vanquished Calvinism from the face of the globe --the thing is --he will continue to try and defeat it until his dying day on the BB. (Even though he had supposedly killed it in October of 2011.)

 

I was dealing with history in my post. I was commending you for acknowledging that Calvinism was in existence long before Calvin was on the scene.

 

A person without the spirit can't understand things that come from the Spirit according to 1 Corinthians 2:14. These folks are unregenerate.

In 3;1-3 Paul is addressing brothers and sisters in the Lord. Paul said that these believers should have been more spiritually mature. They should have been on a diet of meat not milk. But they were indeed believers --not unregenerate individuals.

Here we go again. You have messed up your understanding of 1 Corinthians 214-3:2. Shall we try Hebrews 5:11-14? This passage also discusses the spiritually immature --believers who should be on a diet of meat--not milk. They are believers though. They are regenerate folks. They are not unsaved fallen men.

 

Gal 3:2 and Eph 1:13 both refute you.

Gal 3:2 This would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

This verse show men had to hear and believe before receiving the Spirit. How can you be regenerate without the Spirit?

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.

Doesn't get any clearer than this, first they heard the gospel, then they believed, and only afterward received the Spirit. These verses show unregenerate men are ABLE to hear the gospel and believe it, and if they do they will receive the Holy Spirit.

 

Hebrews 5:12
In fact, though by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to teach you the elementary truths of God’s word all over again. You need milk, not solid food!

That is the sign of the mature is not having to be taught elementary teaching all over again, but to teach it. It is not to reject it if you need it.

We shouldn't be needing milk of the word of God but teaching it and given it to the little one's.

You do not have to understand the scripture, but trust in the Lord. It is Jesus work to teach us and to open our eyes.

 

See above points, as the Lord open the minds of those who geard the Jesus of the Gospel proclaimed to them, and as many as were the elect of God turned to Christ to be saved, over 3000 alone on day of Pentacost!

 

Van,please respond to what I have said above.

 

The trouble with the interpretation of some verses, is that some people tend to make them absolutes when they are not. It is a general statement, generally true, but not always. There are exceptions. Man is given: general revelation that he might understand the things of God (Romans 1:20; 2:14,15: Psa.19:1-3), "so that they are without excuse." The more light they are given the more they are responsible for.
The verse (1Cor.2:14) does not say all natural men. It simply says "the natural man." It is a general statement implying that it is possible for some natural men to understand the Word of God or spiritual things. Otherwise how would you account for the testimonies (and there are many of them) that say: "I got saved by just reading a tract," or "I got saved by just reading a Bible," etc. The natural man obviously understood spiritual things in those few cases.

Quite correct. I agree with your assessment. It also shoots down the LS ideas of "the carnal Christian," for indeed there is a carnal Christian as is clearly taught here in this passage. The immature Christian is that "carnal Christian."

I agree with your assessment. See my comments above.

 

Regarding 1 Corinthians 2:14 :Of course it is speaking of the unregenerate DHK. The unsaved do not have the Holy Spirit dwelling within them. It's not a "general" principle --it is a fact of the Word of God and impinges on other biblical truths."The person without the Spirit..." How could it be stated any plainer than that?

We're not talking about so-called natural revelation at all.

 

This is a well known testimony, and not unlike many others.

http://www.wholesomewords.org/missions/biotaylor.html

This kind of testimony goes against all that you have been saying. A man picks up a tract, reads it, understands it, and is saved. You say it can't be done. You are wrong.

 

What you are confusing is the distinction between natural light and supernatural light. The natural man is capable of perceiving what God has revealed in nature and in conscience and that is sufficient to understand, violate and be condemned. However, what Paul is speaking about in 1 Corinthians is not natural revelation but special revelation that requires spiritual discernment which no natural man can perceive.

 

The phrase "hearing of faith" is subjective genitive and means "hearing that produced faith" and that "hearing" is the product of a new heart (Deut. 5:29 with 29:4; Ezek. 36:26 with Rom. 10:10). Given through the effectual call or the creative command of God (Rom. 10:17 "rhema" word of command - 2 Cor. 4:6).

Don't confuse regeneration by the Spirit with sealing of the Holy Spirit. Regeneration has to do with giving spiritual life where as sealing has to do with preserving that life through indwelling. The Holy Spirit first cleanses a man through the washing of regeneration before He indwells that man (logical order). He does not enter into an unclean temple.