Are There Actual 'Fundamentals" In Theology for Fundamentalists?

Signed,
-A 4ish-pointer (so according to Herald: not a calvinist...according to the non-cals: a calvinist)

I pretty much resemble that remark.

 

Interesting that you chime in now. Why didn't you say something along these lines when Luke2427 called all KJVO's heretics (on the first page of this thread)? Why the double standard? Go ahead and call out Luke2427 or cease from calling me out.

 

Because KJVO really is.

Calvinism is not.

It's really that simple.

 

Whereas KJVO does bring into question the third doctrine in your list.

Theopedia defines heresy as:

If KJVO has not been divisive then NO doctrine in history ever has been. KJVO is a new doctrine invented by people who do not CARE about what the rest of the Body of Christ has ALWAYS believed. This is the same attitude that all heretics have possessed. It condemns all Christians who use other versions as either lost altogether or replacing the Word of God with evil perversions of God's Word. These Christians are ostracized and condemned. That is the absolute ESSENCE of divisive doctrine, i.e. heresy.

KJVO brings into question the orthodox view of inspiration and replaces it with a weird, twisted view of double inspiration. The idea is that God did inspire the original words then he did it again about 1600 years later with the KJV. That is simply not the orthodox view of inspiration- at ALL.

That position is indefensible and we are OBLIGATED to condemn it. No Christian is permitted by Scripture to be neutral on such doctrines or to remain silent.

The reason such wild, divisive doctrines are able to thrive in our culture is because they are not confronted and condemned on a broad scale by the Christian community. It is because we have adopted a confused idea of humility and compassion.

We are not doing our brothers in Christ who are tangled up in this false doctrine any favors by allowing them to go unchecked and unchallenged. We are the opposite of noble when we do not hate such things (not such people, but such doctrines). We are ignoring our duty when we refuse to employ the fiercest of language in condemnation of such doctrines that are new, have no historicity, divide the Body of Christ, slow the progress of the Kingdom of God in our culture, make the Church a laughing stock in the world and bring into question the historical orthodox view of inspiration.

 

I totally agree with you on calling out false doctrine. That is why I will continue to proclaim Calvinism as heresy.

 

But you can't support that fallacious claim. You just make the claim without any support. That's pretty pointless

Here is a good example of an IFB like that which permeates the south here preaching KJVO and claiming that anybody who reads or studies or believes in other versions at all are all LOST. Check it out at about the 4 min. and 35 sec. mark.

That's heresy. Plain and simple.

 

No, that's someone promoting a works based salvation and that's heresy whether it is using KJVO as a work or anything else. Most KJVO folk do not believe that it has anything to do with salvation.

 

I think that is patently false.

Do you have any proof for that claim?

 

Do you have any proof that most KJVO believe it is tied to salvation? You are the one that made the initial assertion. The burden of proof is on you.

 

I'm not KJVO, but if forced to make a choice, I prefer it to Calvinism.

 

Matthew 9:18 KJV ". . there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him. ." NIV "While he was saying this, a ruler came and knelt before him and said, 'My daughter has just died. But come and put your hand on her, and she will live.'" NIV changes "worshipped" to "knelt before." Men kneel before their own kings and queens, but they do not worship them.

Matthew 13:51 KJV "Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto Him, Yea, Lord." NIV "'Have you understood all these things?' Jesus asked. 'Yes,' they replied." NIV leaves out "Lord," again, leaving out His Lordship.

Matthew 16:20 KJV "Then charged He his disciples that they should tell no man that He was Jesus the Christ." NIV "Then he warned his disciples not to tell anyone that he was the Christ." NIV leaves out "Jesus," as it does in numerous verses.

Matthew 20:20 KJV "Then came to him the mother of Zebedee's children with her sons, worshipping him. ." NIV "Then the mother of Zebedee's sons came to Jesus with her sons and, kneeling down, asked a favor of him." NIV again changes "worshipping" to "kneeling down."

Matthew 25:13 KJV "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh." NIV "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour." NIV leaves out "wherein the Son of man cometh."

Mark 1:14 KJV "Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God." NIV "After John was put in prison, Jesus went into Galilee, proclaiming the good news of God." NIV says "the good news" and leaves out "the gospel of the kingdom of God."

Mark 5:6 KJV "But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him," NIV "When he saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and fell on his knees in front of him." NIV changes "worshipped" to "fell on his knees."

Mark 9:24 KJV "And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief." NIV "Immediately the boy's father exclaimed, 'I do believe; help me overcome my unbelief!'" NIV leaves out the reference to Jesus as "Lord."

Mark 11:10 KJV "Blessed be the kingdom of our father David, that cometh in the name of the Lord: Hosanna in the highest." NIV "'Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David!' 'Hosanna in the highest!'" NIV changes his present kingdom to a future one saying "Blessed is the coming kingdom" and strips Jesus of His present Lordship.

Luke 4:8 KJV "And Jesus said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord they God, and him only shalt thou serve." NIV "Jesus answered, 'It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.'" NIV leaves out "Get thee behind me Satan."

Luke 4:41 KJV "And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God ..." NIV "Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, 'You are the Son of God! ...'" NIV leaves out the reference to Jesus by the devils that He was "Christ."

Luke 7:31 KJV "And the Lord said, Whereunto then shall I liken the men of this generation? and to what are they like?" NIV "To what, then, can I compare the people of this generation? What are they like?" NIV leaves out "And the Lord said."

Luke 11:2 KJV "And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth." NIV "He said to them, "When you pray, say: "'Father, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come." He isn't "Our Father" but just Father, and He isn't in Heaven, because that tells you something of who He is and points to Him as the Heavenly Father, so both references to heaven are removed. He must be here on earth. The reason for this is that the New Agers and Catholics believe in the "universal fatherhood" of God. My Father or Our Father becomes "The Father." This can be seen in some of the verses below: John 10:30,32; 14:28, etc. He is Father to all, and with it is the "Brotherhood of man." Then what happened to doing His will? Most people today want to do their own will, and justify it, and say that is the way it is supposed to be. But that is not the way it is supposed to be. We are to say "If the Lord will. . ." James 4:15 KJV "For that ye ought to say, If the Lord will, we shall live, and do this, or that." Satan wants you to do his will, and not the Father's.

Luke 11:4 KJV "And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil." NIV "Forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us. And lead us not into temptation. '" Even Satanists and Eastern Mysticists desire cleansing from sin, and Satan desires to masquerade as the sin forgiver and destroyer. Example: From the Complete Book of Magic and Witchcraft, part of a Satanic ritual states: "Grant that I may be cleansed by this water from all my sins." So Satan doesn't take this part out. Think about it: why don't they want you to be delivered from evil? This is all part of the conspiracy. First they deny the existence of Satan. They say that Satan is not a person, but merely a "power of evil." Then they assert that Lucifer and the Devil are separate and distinct entities. Satan tries to hide his real identity, and hide behind other names. New Agers say that Satan is a figment of Christians’ imaginations. They point out that Lucifer means 'day-star' or 'light giver' and say that Lucifer is the brightest of God's angels. Albert Pike said, "Lucifer is God." That's the next step in the deception: claiming that Lucifer is a good angel or even God or Christ Himself.

Luke 23:42 KJV "And he (the thief) said unto Jesus ‘Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.’" NIV "Then he said, 'Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.'" NIV leaves out "Lord," doing away with His Deity.

John 10:30 KJV "I and my Father are one." NIV "I and the Father are one." Again, Satan is trying to do away with the Heavenly Father, and set himself on the throne. These are some more of the verses doing away with the Personal "My" or "Our" Father for an impersonal one, as well as changing "Our Lord" and "My Lord" to "the Lord" in referring to Jesus. John 10:32 KJV "Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?" NIV "but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" " John 14:28 KJV "Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you, If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I." NIV "You heard me say, 'I am going away and I am coming back to you.' If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I." This is just a sample of many such verses. Galatians 1:3 KJV "Grace be to you, and peace, from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ," NIV "Grace and peace to you from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ," 2Thessalonians 1:2 KJV "Grace unto you, and peace, from God our Father. . ." NIV "Grace and peace to you from God the Father. . ." 1Timothy 1:2 KJV "Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father. . ." NIV "To Timothy my true son in the faith: Grace, mercy and peace from God the Father. . ."

 

Acts 2:30 KJV "Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;" NIV "But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne." NIV replaces "Christ" with "one of his descendants," which could be anybody.

Acts 8:37 KJV "And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." NIV leaves out the entire verse.

Romans 14:10 KJV ". .for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ." NIV "For we will all stand before God's judgment seat." NIV does away with Christ and His authority in judgment.

Romans 16:24 KJV "The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen." NIV leaves out the entire verse.

Galatians 6:17 KJV "From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus." NIV "Finally, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus. " NIV leaves out "Lord." They don't mind calling Jesus Savior, but they don't want you to surrender your life to His Lordship. They want you to think that you can accept and receive Jesus as your Savior for "fire insurance," to keep you from hell, without receiving Him as your Lord.

Ephesians3: 9 KJV ". .which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ." NIV "and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things." NIV leaves out "by Jesus Christ" to undermine His Deity.

Ephesians 3:14 KJV "For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ." NIV "For this reason I kneel before the Father. . . " The NIV leaves out "of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Colossians 1:2 KJV "To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ." NIV "To the holy and faithful brothers in Christ at Colosse: Grace and peace to you from God our Father." NIV leaves out "and the Lord Jesus Christ."

1 Timothy 2:7 KJV "Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity." NIV "And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles." NIV leaves out "in Christ."

1 Timothy 3:16 KJV "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." NIV "Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great: He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory." NIV reduces "God" to "He" and changes "manifest in the flesh" to "appeared in a body." That doesn't say the same thing. That is no different from the mount of transfiguration when Moses and Elijah appeared with Jesus. They appeared like men, with bodies.

2 Timothy 4:22 KJV "The Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Grace be with you. Amen." NIV "The Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you." NIV leaves out "Jesus Christ." So whom is the reference speaking of that is Lord? They don't want Jesus to get the honor and glory due Him, nor for you to serve Him as your Lord and Savior.

Hebrews 2:7 KJV "Thou made Him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst Him with glory and honour, and didst set Him over the works of thy hands." NIV "You made him a little lower than the angels; you crowned him with glory and honor" NIV leaves out "and didst set Him over the works of thy hands." Why do they continually leave out the most significant parts of these verses that show Jesus to be both Lord and Savior?

1 John 5:13 KJV "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God." NIV "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." NIV leaves out the last 13 words of the verse (underlined) that speak of putting our faith in Christ..

Revelation 1:11 KJV "Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and What thou seest, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia..." NIV "which said: "Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches:..." NIV leaves out "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last." This is a reference to Christ, and who He is, as the eternal God, the only begotten of the Father, and the firstborn from the dead.

Revelation 5:14b KJV "... And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped Him that liveth for ever and ever." NIV "... and the elders fell down and worshipped." NIV leaves out "Him that liveth for ever and ever." Who were the elders worshipping? The lamb who was slain, the one who said in Revelation 2:8 "These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive."

These are examples from the many verses in the New Testament in which references to Christ as Lord, as God, as Creator, are watered down or entirely deleted. The translators of the NIV are against Christ. They are truly Anti-Christ. They do not want you to believe in Him nor put your faith in Him as your personal Lord and Savior, and they do not want you to serve Him and obey Him. If they can get you to believe in a historical Jesus, whom you do not put your faith in and trust in for forgiveness of your sins, and without bowing your life and heart to worship and serve Him as Lord, they will have succeeded in keeping you from Heaven and will help send you to Hell for all eternity! The following sections will further prove this point. Again, all sections are only a representation of the multitude of scriptures that have been changed by the translators of the NIV.

 

Matthew 9:13b KJV "for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." NIV "For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." NIV leaves out "to repentance." So what are they called to?

Matthew 18:11 KJV "For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost." NIV leaves out the entire verse. This degrades His place as Savior, the purpose for which He came into the world.

Mark 2:17 KJV "When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." NIV "On hearing this, Jesus said to them, "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." NIV leaves out "to repentance" as in Matthew 9:13. Without this reference, what is the sinner called to?

Mark 10:24 KJV "Children, how hard is it for them that trust in riches to enter into the kingdom of God!" NIV totally changes the meaning, saying "Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God!" The Catholic church amasses riches, and teaches that men have to be prayed out of purgatory to get into heaven, a primary means for the church to get money from it's believers. So they leave out "for them that trust in riches" and that allows them to use the verse to serve their own purposes.

Mark 15:28 KJV "And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors." NIV leaves out the entire verse.

Luke 9:55 KJV "But he turned and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of." NIV "But Jesus turned and rebuked them," NIV leaves out "Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of." (v.56) KJV "For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village." NIV "and they went to another village." NIV leaves out this entire underlined section referring to Jesus as the Son of Man and Savior. The change in the meaning of these two verses is unmistakable. They are not unintentional omissions, or accidents. Look at the two verses together: Luke 9:55-56 KJV "But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village." NIV "But Jesus turned and rebuked them, and they went to another village."

Luke 17:36 KJV "Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left." NIV leaves out the entire verse.

Romans 1:16 KJV "For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ. ..." NIV "I am not ashamed of the gospel," NIV leaves out "of Christ." So whose gospel is it? What is the gospel without Christ? And what power to save is there in a gospel without Christ?

Romans 8:1 KJV "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit." NIV "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, " NIV leaves out "who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit" It changes the entire meaning of the verse and leaves no requirement or prerequisite to being free from condemnation. In truth, the verse tells us that if you do walk in the flesh, then there is condemnation. They have taken that out, so that you won't know the truth.

Romans 10:15b KJV "How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things." NIV "How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!" NIV leaves out "that preach the gospel of peace." So what is the "good news" if it is not "the gospel of peace." The gospel of Jesus will bring peace to the one who puts their faith and trust in the finished works of Calvary, and submits to His Lordship, for he is "the Prince of Peace" (Isaiah 9:6).

Romans 11:6 KJV "And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." NIV "And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace." NIV leaves out "But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work." It's talking about the remnant according to the election of grace (v.5) and the difference between grace and works. In verse five, the NIV leaves out "election of grace." Catholicism believes in salvation by works and not by grace through faith; that was what started the reformation. This was Martin Luther's key revelation.

Romans 15:29 KJV "And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ." NIV "I know that when I come to you, I will come in the full measure of the blessing of Christ." NIV leaves out "of the gospel." The blessings we receive come only because of Calvary, and our faith in what Jesus accomplished for us on the Cross. The blessings of God only come to those who are obedient to "the gospel." All others are brought under God's judgment. 2 Thessalonians 1:8 (KJV) "In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:" Peter 4:17 (KJV) "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" What is Christ to us without the gospel; His death, burial and resurrection, that we might be redeemed from our sins? 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 (KJV) "For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

 

Mark 16:9-20 KJV "Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. 10 And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. 11 And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not. 12 After that he appeared in another form unto two of them, as they walked, and went into the country. 13 And they went and told it unto the residue: neither believed they them. 14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. 19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen." Mark 16:9 NIV "The most reliable early manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have Mark 16:9-20. When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons." It is not necessary to copy the rest of the verses of Mark 16 from the NIV Bible, for they have already told us that they don't believe it is part of the Holy Writ. Who are these ancient witnesses referred too? Of what reliable manuscripts are they speaking that leave out this section of Scripture, versus the unreliable ones that contain it? An attack and accusation without any proof or source to back up their claim. WHY? Catholic's today have a new doctrine, that of the bodily assumption of Mary. She has taken the place of Christ, she is without original sin, she is their mediatrix whom they pray to for mercy, and they believe she was bodily (without death) ascended into glory. Mary is also called the "Mother of God" and many other exalting titles. The Catholic Church began praying to Mary about 600 AD; as well as other dead "saints." The Catholic Church tells their people that Jesus is a judge that is harsh and judgmental, and that without Mary's intercession on their behalf, no one would receive any mercy from Him, and no one is allowed to plead their own case before Him. Mary is the one who stands as mediatrix between man and Jesus, begging her son to forgive and have pity on those Roman Catholics who pray to her. She is seen as co-savior and co-redeemer; in fact she is promoted above Christ.




Matthew 25:13 KJV "Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh." NIV "Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour." NIV leaves out "wherein the Son of man cometh," changing the whole meaning of the verse.




Matthew 27: 35 KJV "And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots." NIV "When they had crucified him, they divided up his clothes by casting lots." NIV leaves out "that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots." They are undermining the fulfilled prophecy of the Old Testament, which supports the validity of it being from God. Many today do not accept or use the O.T. in their study of the Word of God. They say we are not under the O.T., and they only read the Psalms and Proverbs out of the Old Testament.

Mark 13:14 KJV "But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:" NIV "When you see 'the abomination that causes desolation' standing where it does not belong--let the reader understand--then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains." NIV leaves out "spoken of by Daniel the prophet." The NIV takes out the references to the New Testament fulfillments of Old Testament prophecy.

Mark 15:28 KJV "And the scripture was fulfilled, which saith, And he was numbered with the transgressors." NIV leaves out the entire verse.

Luke 4:4 KJV "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God." NIV "Jesus answered, 'It is written: "Man does not live on bread alone."'" NIV leaves out "but by every word of God." So then, what is man supposed to live by other than bread? It doesn't tell you. Maybe they want us to guess what it is? Would God make such an omission, such an obvious blunder in this verse?

Luke 9:54 KJV "And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?" NIV "When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, 'Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?'" NIV leaves out the reference "even as Elijah did."

Galations 3: 1 KJV "O Foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?" NIV "You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified." NIV leaves out "that ye should not obey the truth." That's the central point of the verse, without which the meaning is lost. How were they bewitched? What was the result and purpose of the enemy in this thing?




Luke 2:33 KJV "And Joseph and his mother marveled at those things which were spoken of him." NIV "The child's father and mother marveled at what was said about him. " NIV changes "Joseph and his mother" to "the child's father and mother" making Jesus the son of Joseph and just a man. This also attacks His Deity. Joseph was not the father of Jesus. Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost. The NIV’s statement is heresy. The Catholics believe in the Virgin Birth of Christ, but they want to destroy the faith of the Protestants and get them to accept Catholics as "brothers in Christ," which they are not.

Luke 2:43 KJV "And when they had fulfilled the days, as they returned, the child Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem; and Joseph and his mother knew not of it." NIV "After the Feast was over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it." NIV changes "Joseph and his mother" to "his parents." What scriptures the Catholics have not corrupted to promote their doctrines, they have changed to destroy the foundation of the Christian (Protestant) faith, and its fundamental doctrines. "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do?" (Psalm 11: 3).







God's formula for prayer, as revealed by the Lord Jesus Christ, is that we pray to the Father, in His (Jesus’) Name . The New Age Catholic Ecumenical Versions of the Bible teach prayer directly to the Son or to the Father, but not in the 'Name' of Jesus. This section will deal with this, as well as other problems concerning prayer in the NIV and other New Versions; such as leaving out "fervent prayer" and "fasting."

Matthew 23:14 KJV "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretense make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation." NIV leaves out the entire verse. Catholicism recites prayers (as the rosary) repetitively for long periods of time, and robs widows by asking money to pray them out of purgatory.

Mark 9:29 KJV "And he said unto them, This kind can come forth by nothing, but by prayer and fasting." NIV "He replied, "This kind can come out only by prayer." "

Mark 11:26 KJV "But if you do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses." NIV leaves out the entire verse. This is a scriptural principle; whatsoever a man sows, that shall he also reap. We have to be willing to forgive others, even as we are forgiven (Ephesians 4:32). If we don't obey the gospel and forgive others as we are commanded, then how can confessing ones sins to a priest (who is supposed to bring absolution) be of any help or value? Is a priest greater than God is? Is he allowed to do that which is contrary to the Word, and contrary to the way God deals with mankind?

 

1 John 5:7 KJV "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." NIV "For there are three that testify:" NIV leaves out the last 15 words of the verse, and skips to v.8, leaving out the first part of it also, and mentioning the three witnesses on earth without saying where these witnesses are, and mentioning none in heaven. This is an attack on the Trinity, a key doctrine for the true Christian. Most cultic religions reject this doctrine. 1 John 5:8 KJV "And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one." NIV "the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement." When you put the two verses together the totality of the NIV is: 1John 5:7 - 1John 5:8 "For there are three that testify: the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement." That is not similar in meaning in any way to the original. All the underlined parts above are left out. This is an abomination.

 

And????

Are you not going to support this claim?

It is pointless if you do not.

 

If you are not going to show your textual investigation that led you to conclude the the NIV is the version that is wrong here, then this post, too, is baseless and pointless.

How do you know the KJV is right and the NIV is wrong?

On what do you base this claim?

Is it just because of some IFB literature you read or sermon you heard or website you perused?

If so, you have nothing.

 

My point of posting the differences in the two versions was to simply point out the differences in the two versions. You can make your own conclusions from the comparisons.

If the texts are different, then they can't both be right. I am not telling anyone which one to choose, I am just saying that claiming that they are both the perfect Word of God is false. If they were both perfect then they would both have the exact same meaning for every verse, but they don't.

I will say that I believe that most people stand behind the NIV simply because it is easier for them to read, not because they think it is The Word of God. I am not saying that the NIV isn't the Word of God, I am simply saying that people prefer it because it is easier, and they really don't care about scriptural accuracy.

As far as I am concerned I don't care how you get the complete and accurate message of the Bible. You can get it from the Children's Illustrated Bible for all I care. I chose the one that I feel gives me the complete and accurate Word. Everyone else has to make that choice too.

BTW, I use several new versions and several commentaries when i am studying the KJV to help me expand my knowledge and better understand the KJV. But when there is a difference in meaning I stick with the KJV. My personal choice.

I guess what I saying is that for me, the new versions do support the study of the KJV, but they don't replace it.

Luke, are you always this aggressive and combative? Do you get into alot of physical confrontations because of the way you attack people and their beliefs? Do you need some medication to calm you down? What does the word "dogmatic" mean to you?

I can see that I am going to have alot of fun toying with your nasty attitude.

How do you know the NIV is right and the KJV is wrong? Prove it.

John

 

Could we could get back on topic? This particular forum's rules make clear that the place for Bibles version and C-A discussions is elsewhere.

World Christian Fundamentals Association Doctrinal Statement, 1919 (found in God's Empire: William Bell Riley and Midwestern Fundamentalism):

I. We believe in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments as verbally inspired of God, and inerrant in the original writings, and that they are the supreme and final authority in faith and life.

II. We believe in one God, eternally existing in three persons, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

III. We believe that Jesus Christ was begotten by the Holy Spirit, and born of the Virgin Mary, and is true God and true man.

IV. We believe that man was created in the image of God, that he sinned and thereby incurred not only physical death, but also that spiritual death which is separation from God, and that all human beings are born with a sinful nature, and, in the case of those who reach moral responsibility, become sinners in thought, word and deed.

V. We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures as a representative and substitutionary sacrifice; and that all who believe in Him are justified on the ground of His shed blood.

VI. We believe in the resurrection of the crucified body of our Lord, in His ascension into heaven, and in His present life there for us, as High Priest and Advocate.

VII. We believe in "that blessed hope," the personal, premillennial and imminent return of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

VIII. We believe that all who receive by faith the Lord Jesus Christ are born again of the Holy Spirit, and thereby become children of God.

IX. We believe in the bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, the everlasting blessedness of the saved, and the everlasting, conscious punishment of the lost.

 

Yes, and KJVO does undermine this tenet. It denies that the original writings are the supreme and final authority in faith and life. They replace the originals, or at least suppliment them, with the KJV.

So, oddly enough, some of the ones who tout the "fundamentalist" title the loudest actually undermine this particular idea of fundamentalism.