Biblical Assurance of Salvation

[psalms109:31]

Ps109:

So you are saying belief is a sided coin with security? In other words belief and the reality of christ brings assurance?

So are doubts a sign of unbelief?

We are to remain in Him to believe in Jesus as if you know nothing you trust in Him remain in Him.

Jesus when He tells us to believe in Him we come to Him with nothing learned don't even know what to believe in, but we believe in Him. That we trust in Him even over ourselves. What we believe, our doubts what ever we trust in Him. If the whole world falls in around us we remain in Him, trust in Him.

We are going to have doubts, unbelief, problem times in our life, but during that we remain in Him.

I don't need security in Christ if I don't believe in Him. The only one's who want security in Christ is those who believe in Him, and Christ gives it.

John 15
The Vine and the Branches
1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful. 3 You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you. 4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.

5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned. 7 If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

9 “As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Now remain in my love. 10 If you keep my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commands and remain in his love. 11 I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete. 12 My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you. 13 Greater love has no one than this: to lay down one’s life for one’s friends. 14 You are my friends if you do what I command. 15 I no longer call you servants, because a servant does not know his master’s business. Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you. 16 You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you so that you might go and bear fruit—fruit that will last—and so that whatever you ask in my name the Father will give you. 17 This is my command: Love each other.

1 John 2:24
As for you, see that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father.

1 John 2:27
As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

Hebrews 3:
14 We have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original conviction firmly to the very end.

2 Timothy 2:
11 Here is a trustworthy saying:

If we died with him,
we will also live with him;
12 if we endure,
we will also reign with him.
If we disown him,
he will also disown us;
13 if we are faithless,
he remains faithful,
for he cannot disown himself

Romans 13:8
[ Love Fulfills the Law ] Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.

Hebrews 6:
16 People swear by someone greater than themselves, and the oath confirms what is said and puts an end to all argument. 17 Because God wanted to make the unchanging nature of his purpose very clear to the heirs of what was promised, he confirmed it with an oath. 18 God did this so that, by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have fled to take hold of the hope set before us may be greatly encouraged. 19 We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20 where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.

 

[convicted1]

How do you know you have passed from death unto life? Because you love the Brethern.

 

[freeatlast]

How do you know you have passed from death unto life? Because you love the Brethern.

Yes but it is not limited to that. That alone is not enough. The following also has to be present.

1 John 2:3-6 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1 John 3:7-10 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth (practices) righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth (practices) sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not (practice) righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Then finally the knowing is sealed in assurance by the Spirit and He only does it if the perosn is doing what it mentioned above;
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Knowing we are saved is not self generated. Unless it comes from the Spirit because of all the things mentioned it is a false assurance like those of Matt 5.

 

[MB]

Do not forget my previous questions but can one have assurance and still experience some doubt (If there is doubt, then what does your definition of assurance mean)? Most arguments made so far when thought out practically and reasoned in line with reality are insufficient. I agree that it is tied in direct connection with our election and our faith wrought by the Holy Spirit, but how do we look at ourselves (especially when understanding the possibility of great deception in our depraved beings) and know we are saved?

Being convinced means I cannot deny the truth of Christ. Doubt is denial. It's rebellion trying to sneak back in to your heart. I'm sure anyone can doubt. I'm also sure that we can stop doubt in it's tracks. Spiritually take control of your mind. Capture your thoughts of doubt and force them out of your mind. Doubt is only a thought a man dwells on. Doubt is sin treat it like any other sin. Stop thinking about it. We do not have to entertain the idea of it. Keep your eyes on Jesus and know the things He does in your life.

quick question: Do you think assurance is tied directly in with our trust and submission to the Holy Spirit? Why?

Yes because with out trust and submission we aren't saved. We have to have both or we cannot trully believe in the first place. Belief is trust and submission is it's results.

If this is your position then would you say our assurance comes and goes with our ups and downs to some degree?

I have been up and down of course though once convinced a thing is true how do we stop being convinced?. It's when I'm down I feel Him correcting me and pulling me back up. It's when I'm up He keeps nudging me to keep going forward. He is always with me because He is with in me.
His constant presence with in, is certainly Assuring.
MB

 

[glfredrick]

I summed up this pericope from Peter in my earlier response. Here is the text, which speaks of how we know that we are saved -- and note that it is based not on our own actions, but rather on God's actions, as He predesintined. Peter makes that quite clear.

1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who are elect exiles of the dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
1Pe 1:2 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood: May grace and peace be multiplied to you.
1Pe 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
1Pe 1:4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you,
1Pe 1:5 who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
1Pe 1:6 In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials,
1Pe 1:7 so that the tested genuineness of your faith--more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire--may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1Pe 1:8 Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory,
1Pe 1:9 obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
1Pe 1:10 Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully,
1Pe 1:11 inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories.
1Pe 1:12 It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look.
1Pe 1:13 Therefore, preparing your minds for action, and being sober-minded, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[Aaron]

Arron said we can have assurance with appeal to romans 8 and then said we can have doubts. In my mind, although i agree, how can we be sure and then have doubts which imply uncertainty?

First, thanks to all who complimented my post. You're very kind.

Second, assurance is an operation of the Spirit of God. Why are some plagued with doubts while others never appear waiver? I don't know. What I know is what we're told. If one lacks assurance, all he needs to do is ask the Father. If we, being evil, know how to give good gifts to our children, how much more with the Heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to him that asks?

Are those who doubt weak in faith? No doubt, but Christ's strength is made perfect in weakness.

 

[zrs6v4]

Im still compiling research on this.

What is your interpretation of 1 John 4:18?

Does this passage pertain to doubts which lead to fear of torment?

 

[convicted1]

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

19 We love him, because he first loved us.

20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?

21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.


verse 18: When I was a sinner, eventhough I enjoyed my sinful lifestyle, I still had a fear that if I died unprepared to go, hell is where'd I be. After Christ came into my life, whenever I lay do to go to sleep, I no longer have that fear. The love that Christ gave me when He saved me, cast out the fear of death, knowing that now, when I am to die, heaven is my eternal home.


verse 20: Here is a way also, to know that you have passed from death unto life. If we have truly been born again/born from above, if we do get mad at someone, especially one of the Brethern, the Holy Ghost will cause us repent of it, and we will overcome that feeling of hatred. We may get mad at one of our Brethern, but we won't stay mad.

 

[convicted1]

First, thanks to all who complimented my post. You're very kind.

Second, assurance is an operation of the Spirit of God. Why are some plagued with doubts while others never appear waiver? I don't know. What I know is what we're told. If one lacks assurance, all he needs to do is ask the Father. If we, being evil, know how to give good gifts to our children, how much more with the Heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to him that asks?

Are those who doubt weak in faith? No doubt, but Christ's strength is made perfect in weakness.

Very good post!!! :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[convicted1]

Yes but it is not limited to that. That alone is not enough. The following also has to be present.

1 John 2:3-6 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1 John 3:7-10 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth (practices) righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth (practices) sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not (practice) righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Then finally the knowing is sealed in assurance by the Spirit and He only does it if the perosn is doing what it mentioned above;
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Knowing we are saved is not self generated. Unless it comes from the Spirit because of all the things mentioned it is a false assurance like those of Matt 5.

Agreed!!!!!!:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[freeatlast]

Im still compiling research on this.

What is your interpretation of 1 John 4:18?

Does this passage pertain to doubts which lead to fear of torment?

It pertains to being lost which causes doubts.

 

[MB]

First, thanks to all who complimented my post. You're very kind.

Second, assurance is an operation of the Spirit of God. Why are some plagued with doubts while others never appear waiver? I don't know. What I know is what we're told. If one lacks assurance, all he needs to do is ask the Father. If we, being evil, know how to give good gifts to our children, how much more with the Heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to him that asks?

Are those who doubt weak in faith? No doubt, but Christ's strength is made perfect in weakness.

Very well said Aaron. I know those who lack assurance only need to ask.
MB

 

[freeatlast]

Very well said Aaron. I know those who lack assurance only need to ask.
MB

No, asking will not bring a biblical assurance. Assurance comes automatically brought by the Spirit when the conditions are met that are mentioned in the bible. There is no other way to have assurance as any other method will bring a false sense of assurance. Without the following in the persons life they remain in doubt and lost even if they have some sort of assurance.

1 John 2:3-6 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

1 John 3:7-10 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth (practices) righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
He that committeth (practices) sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit (practice) sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot (practice) sin, because he is born of God.
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not (practice) righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Then finally the knowing is sealed in assurance by the Spirit and He only does it if the perosn is doing what it mentioned above;
Romans 8:16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Knowing we are saved is not self generated. Unless it comes from the Spirit because of all the things mentioned it is a false assurance like those of Matt 5.

 

[zrs6v4]

It pertains to being lost which causes doubts.

I hope everyone has been following my line of thought on this.

I have seen a number of posts which say that a true believer can have doubts. Again, it is clear that if we define assurance by saying that one will have no doubts or to be sure without doubting doubts cannot simultaneously be present.

If you say that people who are saved can have assurance and also can have doubts then how does 1 John 4:18 apply to them. Doesn't logic tell us that if one doubts his or her salvation that he or she will fear God's punishment or eternal wrath? Or do the believers doubts go elsewhere (if possible)?

If I am correct and take 1 John 4:18 at face value then a true believer cannot doubt their salvation (because it leads to fear of torment?).

You do not have to give a lengthy post here, but who of you believe that a true believer can doubt his or her salvation? Who of you believe a true believer will never doubt his salvation?

 

[psalms109:31]

We all start off as infants in our new birth, growing and maturing. Some people are living off of milk and should be unto solid food, but it is going to happen over night.

Are you saying that those who still need milk are not His or not a true believer?

 

[psalms109:31]

Hebrews 7:
18 The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless 19 (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

My weaker brother and sister I love them as much as my mature brothers and sisters

 

[freeatlast]

I hope everyone has been following my line of thought on this.

I have seen a number of posts which say that a true believer can have doubts. Again, it is clear that if we define assurance by saying that one will have no doubts or to be sure without doubting doubts cannot simultaneously be present.

If you say that people who are saved can have assurance and also can have doubts then how does 1 John 4:18 apply to them. Doesn't logic tell us that if one doubts his or her salvation that he or she will fear God's punishment or eternal wrath? Or do the believers doubts go elsewhere (if possible)?

If I am correct and take 1 John 4:18 at face value then a true believer cannot doubt their salvation (because it leads to fear of torment?).

You do not have to give a lengthy post here, but who of you believe that a true believer can doubt his or her salvation? Who of you believe a true believer will never doubt his salvation?

The passage you are trying to use is not about a believer doubting. It is about a lost person who has not experienced the love of God. You need to read the passages on both sides of that verse.
Second yes a believer can have doubts and those doubts happen if they have sin in their life. I am not talking about the practice of sin because those who practice sin are not saved.
So yes a believer can have doubts at certain times in their life if they are wrestling with some sin and not getting the victory.

 

[zrs6v4]

The passage you are trying to use is not about a believer doubting. It is about a lost person who has not experienced the love of God. You need to read the passages on both sides of that verse.
Second yes a believer can have doubts and those doubts happen if they have sin in their life. I am not talking about the practice of sin because those who practice sin are not saved.
So yes a believer can have doubts at certain times in their life if they are wrestling with some sin and not getting the victory.

I agree with you in regards to 1 John 4:18. The book is written to believers but within are signs of what unbelievers look like. 4:18 is definitely in reference to an unbeliever who experiences the fear of torment because He does not know God (or "is not perfected in love").

Although I understood the context of who this was addressed to John said that there is "no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one (the unbeliever) who fears is not perfeced in love."

My paraphrase would be: Believers who have been truly born again do not fear punishment, but those who fear punishment are unbelievers. God's love rests in believers because He Himself is in them, but unbelievers fear torment because they do not have the love of God within them.

So when you doubt do you fear torment?
Is John indirectly saying that believers never ever fear torment or hell? (have doubts of salvation)

In my mind saying that a believer fears or doubts his salvation (again which includes fear of hell or separation from God) may not be allowed in 1 John 4:18? Or do you think John was shooting for something much more basic in principle?

 

[freeatlast]

I agree with you in regards to 1 John 4:18. The book is written to believers but within are signs of what unbelievers look like. 4:18 is definitely in reference to an unbeliever who experiences the fear of torment because He does not know God (or "is not perfected in love").

Although I understood the context of who this was addressed to John said that there is "no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one (the unbeliever) who fears is not perfeced in love."

My paraphrase would be: Believers who have been truly born again do not fear punishment, but those who fear punishment are unbelievers. God's love rests in believers because He Himself is in them, but unbelievers fear torment because they do not have the love of God within them.

So when you doubt do you fear torment?
Is John indirectly saying that believers never ever fear torment or hell? (have doubts of salvation)

In my mind saying that a believer fears or doubts his salvation (again which includes fear of hell or separation from God) may not be allowed in 1 John 4:18? Or do you think John was shooting for something much more basic in principle?

I don't believe John is dealing with both sides of the issue. The passage is dealing with the lost and that is as far as I would take it. In a believers life they may lose their assurance because of some sin that they allow into their life, but the assurance can be restored if they turn from it. God is not telling us as long as we take care of the big sins He will just pass over the little ones. He is calling us to not sinning at all. Shocking!? My guess it is for most. Until we accept that and seek for that we will never find real assurance. I can tell you without a doubt that many Christians who claim to have assurance do not really have it. What they do is say they do enough and try and convince themselves instead of the Spirit doing it. They are from 75 to 95 percent sure, but not 100% which is what only the Spirit does when we are doing what 1 John says.

 

[zrs6v4]

I don't believe John is dealing with both sides of the issue. The passage is dealing with the lost and that is as far as I would take it. In a believers life they may lose their assurance because of some sin that they allow into their life, but the assurance can be restored if they turn from it. God is not telling us as long as we take care of the big sins He will just pass over the little ones. He is calling us to not sinning at all. Shocking!? My guess it is for most. Until we accept that and seek for that we will never find real assurance. I can tell you without a doubt that many Christians who claim to have assurance do not really have it. What they do is say they do enough and try and convince themselves instead of the Spirit doing it. They are from 75 to 95 percent sure, but not 100% which is what only the Spirit does when we are doing what 1 John says.

Fair enough on 1 John. I do see what you mean that John probably doesn't intend for 4:18 to be indirectly extended to believers. The best evidence for your answer is the message he presents in the book of 1 John as a whole to "doubting unbelievers". I just thought of that, if he meant for 4:18 to mean that believers can't doubt then that verse right there would condemn all of the believers he is writing to who are uncertain of their eternal destiny.

I agree about the assurance thing and it is a hard and humbling thing to be honest about. We sit on here and debate deep theologies and sounds so strong but then we get asked a simple question like that and we are like well of course Im sure while inside the mind is ticking and doing everything it can to send the penetrating question out the first exit.

I will admit that there are times I have been uncertain even though I have a very dramatic testimony and have grown a lot over the past 4 years as a Christian. I think the humility within us tries to face honest and real facts about missing God and loving God and hell and being used and sin. Those realities are so strong that when we face them alone in our rooms we become like melted wax before God. So far I think the best asnwer on this topic has been about being close to God and looking to Him not just for assurance but for everything.

Furthermore, assurance is dangerous because being to sure can imply self-righteousness, lack of reliance on God, lack of humility, lack of mindfulness on our human weakness in the flesh, and so forth. In other words people who die to positive of their eternal state and never measured reality properly beforehand may end up in the crowd of the unknown by God. Thinking about God will and should shrink us before Him, but its amazing how through that humility we can approach Him with confidence, love, and trust.

I think the very nature of our fear of God, our humility, and our view of reality presented in Scripture will lead us to humble trust and ultimately assurance in God. I do think assurance will grow as we grow to know God. So if we want assurance we need to get to know God because His character will answer a lot of our issues within.