Grace: potential or actual II

[Aaron]

Would you agree that there can be no temptation without the possibility of give into it?

Absolutely not.

Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.


You have ripped a verse out of context. Jesus was talking about false prophets, not Adam.



Genesis 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Everything that God made was "very good". This includes Adam since God made him, correct?

Your view has scripture contradicting itself, proving that you are wrong.

Christ applied a universal principle in speaking of false prophets. As a universal principle, it can be applied to anyone. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit.

Adam's sin came from a bad CHOICE, something we all have the ability to do.

Are you saying Adam was deceived and innocently disobeyed and that's what corrupted him?

 

[freeatlast]

Aron I am not clear on your answer. Does that mean you feel we can be tempted even if we cannot sin or we can only be tempted in areas where we can sin?
Originally Posted by freeatlast
Would you agree that there can be no temptation without the possibility of give into it?

Absolutely not.

 

[Amy.G]

Christ applied a universal principle in speaking of false prophets. As a universal principle, it can be applied to anyone. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit.

My question then is, do you believe God created Adam in a corrupt state?

On the 6th day God declared His creation to be "very good". Therefore, according to God's own words, Adam was "very good".

How do you reconcile your belief that Adam must be a "bad tree" with God's statement that he was "very good"?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

My question then is, do you believe God created Adam in a corrupt state?

On the 6th day God declared His creation to be "very good". Therefore, according to God's own words, Adam was "very good".

How do you reconcile your belief that Adam must be a "bad tree" with God's statement that he was "very good"?

Good tree gone bad...since sin entered the world.

 

[Robert Snow]

Originally Posted by Robert Snow:

Adam's sin came from a bad CHOICE, something we all have the ability to do.

Posted by Aaron:

Are you saying Adam was deceived and innocently disobeyed and that's what corrupted him?

I did not say anything about Adam's choice being innocent. In fact, the scripture says that Eve was deceived; Adam deliberately sinned. That's why I used the word CHOICE.

 

[Amy.G]

Good tree gone bad...since sin entered the world.

Do you mean that just the presence of Satan in the garden made Adam "bad"?

So when did Adam fall?

Sounds like you're just making stuff up in order to agree with Aaron.

 

[Aaron]

My question then is, do you believe God created Adam in a corrupt state?

On the 6th day God declared His creation to be "very good". Therefore, according to God's own words, Adam was "very good".

How do you reconcile your belief that Adam must be a "bad tree" with God's statement that he was "very good"?

Adam was created good, but not incorruptible. Corruption was introduced, and Adam's sin was the fruit of the corrupt tree.

 

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by Robert Snow:


Posted by Aaron:


I did not say anything about Adam's choice being innocent. In fact, the scripture says that Eve was deceived; Adam deliberately sinned. That's why I used the word CHOICE.

The choice then wasn't free, being as it was the fruit of a corrupt tree.

 

[Aaron]

Aron I am not clear on your answer. Does that mean you feel we can be tempted even if we cannot sin or we can only be tempted in areas where we can sin?
Originally Posted by freeatlast
Would you agree that there can be no temptation without the possibility of give into it?

Absolutely not.

Temptation is not contingent upon the corruptibility of the one being tested. It is impossible that Christ could sin, or even desire to do so (the desire to do so being an inordinate desire and the act of a corrupt, impure heart) yet He was tempted.

 

[Amy.G]

Adam was created good, but not incorruptible. Corruption was introduced, and Adam's sin was the fruit of the corrupt tree.

How was he corrupted? I can't figure out what it is you're trying to say.

 

[Aaron]

How was he corrupted? I can't figure out what it is you're trying to say.

For now, the point is that he was.

 

[Robert Snow]

The choice then wasn't free, being as it was the fruit of a corrupt tree.

I believe I could post that Jesus Christ is God, and you would find a way to disagree. Some people here are not here to discuss or learn or even teach. They are here to disagree. Unfortunately, you are near the top of the heap.

 

[convicted1]

The choice then wasn't free, being as it was the fruit of a corrupt tree.

Yes sir it was a free choice. Adam wasn't corrupted until after he ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. He was blinded to sin prior to that moment(not realizing that being naked was shameful), and then became blinded by sin, and being seperated from God because of it.

 

[Aaron]

Then you're left with the conclusion that Adam was good and pure, and that a diliberately sinful act sprang from a good and pure heart.

Jesus disagrees.

 

[convicted1]

Then you're left with the conclusion that Adam was good and pure, and that a diliberately sinful act sprang from a good and pure heart.

Jesus disagrees.

Adam was in complete harmony with God prior to him eating the forbidden fruit. That is what caused him and Eve to be cast out of the Garden, you know.

 

[JesusFan]

Adam was created good, but not incorruptible. Corruption was introduced, and Adam's sin was the fruit of the corrupt tree.

Are you saying that God created Adam without sin in Him, but he had the potential there to make true violational free will moral decisions, same way for Lucifer, both chose wrong?

 

[Aaron]

Adam was in complete harmony with God prior to him eating the forbidden fruit. That is what caused him and Eve to be cast out of the Garden, you know.

You're taking a man's heart out of the question entirely with that assertion. He wouldn't have even taken it in his hand if there wasn't a change prior to the sinful act. If Adam's heart were not corrupt, he could have brought forth no sin.

 

[convicted1]

You're taking a man's heart out of the question entirely with that assertion. He wouldn't have even taken it in his hand if there wasn't a change prior to the sinful act. If Adam's heart were not corrupt, he could have brought forth no sin.

So then, Adam, to have had a corrupted heart pre-fruit ingestion, what caused it to be corrupted? If that's the case, then God lied when He told him what would happen, if they ate that fruit, I guess. Sin is what corrupts, correct? Then for Adam to have a corrupted heart, then pray tell, what brought the change? I say it was the fruit that brought about his corrupted heart. What do you think caused this change?

 

[Aaron]

Are you saying that God created Adam without sin in Him, but he had the potential there to make true violational free will moral decisions, same way for Lucifer, both chose wrong?

I'm talking about Adam. The fall of angels is not something upon which there is a history written. Not an inspired one, anyway. Sure, many apply certain prophecies to the fall of angels, but it's a very subjective topic.

I'm saying that Adam, in an uncorrupted state, could do no sin. It was impossible, until he was corrupted.

You're all assuming his act was the corrupting force, instead of seeing it as the fruit of corruption.

 

[Aaron]

So then, Adam, to have had a corrupted heart pre-fruit ingestion, what caused it to be corrupted? If that's the case, then God lied when He told him what would happen, if they ate that fruit, I guess. Sin is what corrupts, correct? Then for Adam to have a corrupted heart, then pray tell, what brought the change? I say it was the fruit that brought about his corrupted heart. What do you think caused this change?

That's not the point yet. The first point is that we begin with the universal principle laid down by Christ, and that is that a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, and neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

If Adam's act was a bad act, it could NOT have come from a uncorrupt heart.