Grace: potential or actual II

[Amy.G]

I'll cut to the chase. It was asserted that Adam had Arminian free will. That's false. If we accept the universal premises laid out in the Gospel, then we have no choice but to conclude that Adam's disobedience was the fruit of corruption, and once corrupted could not bring forth good fruit. He could do no other but disobey.

Now the question is, could Adam have prevented his own corruption? It's like asking if iron can prevent its own rust. Once Adam was introduced to a corrupting influence (whatever it was) corruption was inevitable. Just as exposing iron to oxygen corrupts iron.

Nothing in this post is biblical. It's only your opinion based on your Calvinist presuppositions.

You claim Adam was corrupted before he ate the fruit. There is not one thing in the bible to even hint at such a thing. The bible is clear that Adam was good until he ate the fruit. He was innocent until he disobeyed God. He was only given ONE commandment and that was not to eat the fruit. He could not have been corrupted by anything else because nothing else was forbidden to him.

You can't post any scripture to back you up on this and you can't even find one theologian that would agree with you.

Luke!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where are you when we need you to stop people from talking about things they know nothing about and teaching NEW doctrines?????? :laugh:

 

[Amy.G]

:sleep:Just like going to church:sleep:

I guess this is one of your "jokes" but I don't get it. Do you like to sleep in church?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I guess this is one of your "jokes" but I don't get it. Do you like to sleep in church?

I like to sleep yes & church does have that effect on me...so boring I do fall asleep which is probably the best thing I can do while there:sleep::laugh:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Nothing in this post is biblical. It's only your opinion based on your Calvinist presuppositions.

You claim Adam was corrupted before he ate the fruit. There is not one thing in the bible to even hint at such a thing. The bible is clear that Adam was good until he ate the fruit. He was innocent until he disobeyed God. He was only given ONE commandment and that was not to eat the fruit. He could not have been corrupted by anything else because nothing else was forbidden to him.

You can't post any scripture to back you up on this and you can't even find one theologian that would agree with you.

Luke!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where are you when we need you to stop people from talking about things they know nothing about and teaching NEW doctrines?????? :laugh:

He is a pastor....probably in church boring the crap outa people (no not Luke) :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZhC-RvroMc :laugh:

 

[Robert Snow]

I like to sleep yes & church does have that effect on me...so boring I do fall asleep which is probably the best thing I can do while there:sleep::laugh:

Why is it you have such disdain for the church, something that God demands that we be a part of. Sounds like you are in rebellion!

 

[Amy.G]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZhC-RvroMc :laugh:

Do you think it's funny to post things that are disrespectful to our Lord?

 

[Amy.G]

He is a pastor....probably in church boring the crap outa people (no not Luke) :smilewinkgrin:

I'm beginning to think you are just a troll.

 

[glfredrick]

He is a pastor....probably in church boring the crap outa people (no not Luke) :smilewinkgrin:

He is, at least, doing it... :saint:

 

[Aaron]

Nothing in this post is biblical. It's only your opinion based on your Calvinist presuppositions.

You claim Adam was corrupted before he ate the fruit. There is not one thing in the bible to even hint at such a thing. The bible is clear that Adam was good until he ate the fruit. He was innocent until he disobeyed God. He was only given ONE commandment and that was not to eat the fruit. He could not have been corrupted by anything else because nothing else was forbidden to him.

You can't post any scripture to back you up on this and you can't even find one theologian that would agree with you.

Luke!!!!!!!!!!!!! Where are you when we need you to stop people from talking about things they know nothing about and teaching NEW doctrines?????? :laugh:

Let's try it one more time.

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit - Jesus.

 

[glfredrick]

Let's try it one more time.

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit - Jesus.

But you have failed to deal with a good tree becoming a bad tree, then producing bad fruit. :laugh:

 

[Skandelon]

But you have failed to deal with a good tree becoming a bad tree, then producing bad fruit. :laugh:

Which would also require you to deal with a bad tree becoming a good tree, then producing good fruit.

 

[Skandelon]

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit - Jesus.

So Peter was a bad tree when he denied Christ? David was a bad tree with he committed adultery? You were a bad tree the last time you sinned? Do you switch from being a bad tree when you sin to being a good tree when you obey?

 

[Amy.G]

Do you switch from being a bad tree when you sin to being a good tree when you obey?

BAD tree! BAD BAD tree!!!

 

[convicted1]

The point isn't the corrupting influence. The point is that Adam had to have been corrupted to disobey. I'm citing Christ on that premise. He said a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit. You're saying evil fruit is what corrupts the tree.

Until you come to the realization that accepting Christ's premise undoes your heretofore unchallenged assumptions, discussing the corrupting influence is fruitless. (The pixilated postulations masquerading as exegesis in the "iniquity found" thread is enough to warn any man.)

So, do you agree with Christ? Is it a corrupt tree that brings forth evil fruit, or do you simply cling to your pet assumptions and insist that it is other than what Christ described?

Again, for the THIRD time, Bro. Aaron, what sin did Adam commit that caused his heart to be corrupted prior to the fruit ingestation?


Adam was made "very good", as Sis. Amy stated in an earlier post. So, what caused him to turn "sour" prior to eating the fruit?

 

[convicted1]

Let's try it one more time.

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit - Jesus.

Keep it up Brother!!

 

[Aaron]

But you have failed to deal with a good tree becoming a bad tree, then producing bad fruit. :laugh:

One thing at a time. Jesus said a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit. If an act of Adam was evil, it had to spring from a corrupt heart.

If one balks at the premise, what use is there to go forward?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

One thing at a time. Jesus said a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit. If an act of Adam was evil, it had to spring from a corrupt heart.

If one balks at the premise, what use is there to go forward?

Good point...especially because Jesus is the one who made it in the 1st place.:thumbs:

 

[Amy.G]

Good point...especially because Jesus is the one who made it in the 1st place.:thumbs:

So you're saying God made Adam to be a bad tree. ????

 

[Amy.G]

Again, for the THIRD time, Bro. Aaron, what sin did Adam commit that caused his heart to be corrupted prior to the fruit ingestation?


Adam was made "very good", as Sis. Amy stated in an earlier post. So, what caused him to turn "sour" prior to eating the fruit?

Aaron doesn't know. He has ripped a verse out of context and is trying to prove that all men are evil, even Adam before the fall. There is no scripture to support this, so you will not get anything more than his opinion.