Is it Typical In IFB Churches?

[Don]

Talk about putting a spin on something.

What I stated was showing your attitude implies this, and it does. Your attitude comes across and is rightly interpreted in that since it doesn't happen around you, then others are merely making these things up. Own up to what you imply. You come across this way, and this is what you convey, and what you mean to convey. Anyone who says it is happening has to be wrong because Don doesn't see it.

Why not try the "Wow, that nonsense doesn't happen around here, that's really sad, why do you think that is...&c" instead of coming out with this attitude like others are simply not telling the truth?

No one including me have put a "spin" on anything, rather what I said nailed you concisely and that was your statement to skirt around the truth that you do in fact act as if you haven't seen it, and others say it's there, then it can't be true.

I'd say that is a haughty position of yours Don.

Dude, stop putting this on me. My post that you're taking issue with was a response to Michael, who stated that certain things were common in the churches he attended. My post was intended to show exactly what you're saying to me: Those that have seen it, and others say they haven't, then the others that haven't can't be correct. The sad part is, you're saying what I was trying to get across to Michael; but you refuse to see that I'm not taking the position you're trying to force on me.

You will NOT find where I say anything about it not happening. You will find where I acknowledge that it happens in some IFB churches. What I challenge is the constant use of "many" because it is a hazy generality. What I challenge is the constant "well, I've seen it this way" with no acknowledgement of the fact that others have seen it a different way.

You and I are arguing the same thing, but on different sides of the argument.

 

[preacher4truth]

Dude, stop putting this on me. My post that you're taking issue with was a response to Michael, who stated that certain things were common in the churches he attended. My post was intended to show exactly what you're saying to me: Those that have seen it, and others say they haven't, then the others that haven't can't be correct. The sad part is, you're saying what I was trying to get across to Michael; but you refuse to see that I'm not taking the position you're trying to force on me.

You will NOT find where I say anything about it not happening. You will find where I acknowledge that it happens in some IFB churches. What I challenge is the constant use of "many" because it is a hazy generality. What I challenge is the constant "well, I've seen it this way" with no acknowledgement of the fact that others have seen it a different way.

You and I are arguing the same thing, but on different sides of the argument.

"Dude?" You must be much younger than I thought.

Don, the thing is MANY churches around here are this way. Allow me to add Texas to the list of states with MANY in it.

 

[Jerome]

on this ONE PAGE there are FOUR... count them... 1,2,3, FOUR... people who testify that their experience with MOST of all of the IFB they have ever been exposed to was that it was a cultic, legalistic movement.

1,2,3, FOUR

I think that settles it.

 

[michael-acts17:11]

And it's not common in most of the IFB churches I've been a member of, and especially is not common in the area where I currently live. Why is your experiential evidence more valid than mine?

Where did I say or insinuate that my experiential evidence was more valid than yours? I don't believe I have ever even referenced you in a post. I do find it interesting that you emotionalized the issue & took personal offense at my personal experience. My experience doesn't disprove yours; neither does your experience disprove mine. If you do not attend one of the extremist IFB churches which I have described, then why would you have reason to be offended?

 

[John of Japan]

1,2,3, FOUR

I think that settles it.

Wow. (Gasp.) Four on one page of a BB thread that is overtly anti-IFB. That's incredibly scientific. How could we then not believe Luke? :smilewinkgrin::laugh:

 

[Don]

Where did I say or intimate that my experiential evidence was more valid than yours?

You didn't.

I don't believe I have ever even referenced you in a post.

You haven't.

I do find it interesting that you emotionalized the issue & took personal offense at my personal experience. My experience doesn't disprove yours; neither does your experience disprove mine.

My point exactly. Yet, we all keep talking about the churches we do know about, without any regard for the ones we don't.

If you do not attend one of the extremist IFB churches which I have described, then why would you have reason to be offended?

Because you didn't specify your understanding that the churches you have experience with, don't necessarily represent all IFB churches.

 

[Don]

"Dude?" You must be much younger than I thought.

Don, the thing is MANY churches around here are this way. Allow me to add Texas to the list of states with MANY in it.

Many out of how many? How do you define "many"? More than 25%? More than 50%? More than 1?

 

[preacher4truth]

Many out of how many? How do you define "many"? More than 25%? More than 50%? More than 1?

I'll tell you how many. TOO many.

Of course, they don't exist over where you are, so this makes it untrue.

If you were at fellowship meetings around here when I was, you'd see it and understand it. It's more rampant than you think. When I was in Ohio, it was something I heard about, but rarely witnessed, but there were a few here and there. The church there that I was saved in was nowhere close to KJVO (although that was our text) yet, some within the church attempted to persuade me their way with Sword of the Lord mags, literature about the superiority of the KJV, personal opinion of the "1611" and other tabloid type media.

When I moved here it became apparent this is a different culture and it is much more common place. But the fact remains Don that you'll never be satisfied nor will you believe a brother, and instead of peacefully acccepting ones word, you cast others as being untruthful.

The fact remains there are many of these churches, your only recourse to fight this is to 1) Cast doubt upon other brothers and call them by implication untruthful; 2) Refuse to believe it until you have an exact number which is impossible to produce. 3) Argue over what the numerical definition and exact sum of "many" is.

Carry on Don. You're right, they don't exist, you win.

One more thing to add here; I am not anti-IFB, it is simply that it is not for me. I'm certain some will say otherwise, but seriously I couldn't care less about that.

 

[seekingthetruth]

I was raised in a SBC church back in the 60's and 70's and my pastor was a fire and brimestone preacher.

One thing I will never forget, every, and I mean every sermon was a salvation sermon. I don't see how the older folks grew spiritually because the sermons were always directed to the unsaved. I guess Sunday School and Training Union was supposed to provide the discipleship training.

I thought all preachers preached like that, and it wasnt until I was grown that I heard an expository message.

John

 

[preacher4truth]

I was raised in a SBC church back in the 60's and 70's and my pastor was a fire and brimestone preacher.

One thing I will never forget, every, and I mean every sermon was a salvation sermon. I don't see how the older folks grew spiritually because the sermons were always directed to the unsaved. I guess Sunday School and Training Union was supposed to provide the discipleship training.

I thought all preachers preached like that, and it wasnt until I was grown that I heard an expository message.

John

I hear you.

When we begin to grow and continue to grow, God leads us to others more spiritually mature than we are generally speaking, to help us mature. We look back and see where we once were, and we thank God for that ministry that was our foundational experience, or at the least that is what we should do.

There are some preachers who in the past I truly enjoyed, but today I just do not enjoy them as I used to.

 

[dcorbett]

I was raised in a SBC church back in the 60's and 70's and my pastor was a fire and brimestone preacher.

One thing I will never forget, every, and I mean every sermon was a salvation sermon. I don't see how the older folks grew spiritually because the sermons were always directed to the unsaved. I guess Sunday School and Training Union was supposed to provide the discipleship training.

I thought all preachers preached like that, and it wasnt until I was grown that I heard an expository message.

John

Same with me, and my first real expository sermon was in an IFB church, not the SBC I grew up in. My Bible growth has occurred in the past 10 years since I became IFB.

 

[Don]

I'll tell you how many. TOO many.

Of course, they don't exist over where you are, so this makes it untrue.

If you were at fellowship meetings around here when I was, you'd see it and understand it. It's more rampant than you think. When I was in Ohio, it was something I heard about, but rarely witnessed, but there were a few here and there. The church there that I was saved in was nowhere close to KJVO (although that was our text) yet, some within the church attempted to persuade me their way with Sword of the Lord mags, literature about the superiority of the KJV, personal opinion of the "1611" and other tabloid type media.

When I moved here it became apparent this is a different culture and it is much more common place. But the fact remains Don that you'll never be satisfied nor will you believe a brother, and instead of peacefully acccepting ones word, you cast others as being untruthful.

The fact remains there are many of these churches, your only recourse to fight this is to 1) Cast doubt upon other brothers and call them by implication untruthful; 2) Refuse to believe it until you have an exact number which is impossible to produce. 3) Argue over what the numerical definition and exact sum of "many" is.

Carry on Don. You're right, they don't exist, you win.

One more thing to add here; I am not anti-IFB, it is simply that it is not for me. I'm certain some will say otherwise, but seriously I couldn't care less about that.

Ya know, there's a point where you mischaracterize a person's viewpoint, and it's a simple mistake or misunderstanding. Then there's a point where the person tells you what they actually believe/think, but you continue to hold to the same mischaracterization anyway. That's usually known as libel and/or slander. Some folks call it plain ol' lying.

I really thought you were better than this.

 

[Robert Snow]

IFB churches are like fingerprints, no two of them are alike. For someone to attempt to say or prove otherwise is just an excuse to bash something or to cause discord.

 

[Rippon]

... just an excuse to bash something or to cause discord.

Look in the mirror Rob. The above is an indictment of your conduct on the BB.

 

[Robert Snow]

Look in the mirror Rob. The above is an indictment of your conduct on the BB.

Point taken. I thought you might say this.

There is however one glaring difference. I dislike the doctrines of Calvinism, but I certainly don't dislike any one particular group of Baptist churches. The only one I have criticized is the Primitive Baptist church I attended once, and these people were not run of the mill Calvinists, I don't think They were very Hyper-Calvinistic in my opinion. I base this on two statements made by the Pastor (Elder). Two times the said that if someone was one of the Elect, it did not matter if he ever heard the Gospel or not, they was saved!

 

[DHK]

I'll tell you how many. TOO many.

Of course, they don't exist over where you are, so this makes it untrue.

If you were at fellowship meetings around here when I was, you'd see it and understand it. It's more rampant than you think. When I was in Ohio, it was something I heard about, but rarely witnessed, but there were a few here and there. The church there that I was saved in was nowhere close to KJVO (although that was our text) yet, some within the church attempted to persuade me their way with Sword of the Lord mags, literature about the superiority of the KJV, personal opinion of the "1611" and other tabloid type media.

When I moved here it became apparent this is a different culture and it is much more common place. But the fact remains Don that you'll never be satisfied nor will you believe a brother, and instead of peacefully acccepting ones word, you cast others as being untruthful.

The fact remains there are many of these churches, your only recourse to fight this is to 1) Cast doubt upon other brothers and call them by implication untruthful; 2) Refuse to believe it until you have an exact number which is impossible to produce. 3) Argue over what the numerical definition and exact sum of "many" is.

Carry on Don. You're right, they don't exist, you win.

One more thing to add here; I am not anti-IFB, it is simply that it is not for me. I'm certain some will say otherwise, but seriously I couldn't care less about that.

Personally I think you are in denial, and even if the truth were shown you, you would not believe it because you have had a bad experience and now seem to have some vendetta against IFB churches. That is really too bad.

I posted in another thread that I am a missionary. I have traveled from the east coast to the west coast in both nations (U.S. and Canada) visiting hundreds of IFB churches in between. The KJVO churches were rare. There were some, but in the larger picture they were far and few between. Perhaps they are more localized around places like Missouri, Ohio, I don't know. For the most part I rarely entered the kind of church you have been describing and attacking. And yet they have all been IFB. So, why the diatribe, and the venomous attack? You and Luke are simply doing damage to the cause of Christ everywhere by bad-mouthing brothers and sisters in Christ who have a heart for carrying out the Great Commission and serving the Lord. What good can come from that?? (that is your attitude)

 

[seekingthetruth]

I don't get the animosity towards KJVO. If they want to use the KJV exclusively, then let them.

1. The KJV is the Word of God. It;s not like they are using the Book of Mormon or something.

2. They are leading people to Christ. They are carrying out the Great Commission.

3. I don't know of a single verse that states that KJVO is a false doctrine. In fact, for 300 years it wasnt an issue, everybody in the English speaking world used it. So what makes it evil now?

4. Calling brothers and sisters in Christ heretics just because you don't agree with their choice of text seems quite sinful to me.

Leave those people alone. If God wants them to use a different Bible version then He will lead them to it.

John

 

[preacher4truth]

Personally I think you are in denial, and even if the truth were shown you, you would not believe it because you have had a bad experience and now seem to have some vendetta against IFB churches. That is really too bad.

I posted in another thread that I am a missionary. I have traveled from the east coast to the west coast in both nations (U.S. and Canada) visiting hundreds of IFB churches in between. The KJVO churches were rare. There were some, but in the larger picture they were far and few between. Perhaps they are more localized around places like Missouri, Ohio, I don't know. For the most part I rarely entered the kind of church you have been describing and attacking. And yet they have all been IFB. So, why the diatribe, and the venomous attack? You and Luke are simply doing damage to the cause of Christ everywhere by bad-mouthing brothers and sisters in Christ who have a heart for carrying out the Great Commission and serving the Lord. What good can come from that?? (that is your attitude)

I just love the disparaging attitude in your opening lines DHK. It's typical of you. Yes, but of course the old "you wouldn't believe the truth if it were shown you." As many persons on here who have attempted to correct your theology and interpretations I'd be cautious if I were you, as you look to be judging yourself here.

I've underlined the smartest thing you said in your post.

Yes, we all know, you're a missionary, you tell us constantly.

Nothing I've stated was an attack. But you can deem it whatever you want to deem it, and as usual, I rarely agree with anything you say anyhow, and I shouldn't, so there is no change here.

Like you said, you don't know. Guess what? I do know. And it's not only MO. Pay attention. It's also AR, OK, TX, some parts of KS and MO. It's also in other states as attested on here. Another thing to add, the College I attended, a huge chunk of the men there seeking the pastorate were guess what? That's right, KJVO. We also lived next to several couples from school who were, you guessed it KJVO.

However you got they are more in Ohio is beyond me, obviously you're not paying attention, which his probably the same reason you didn't notice more KJVO churches in the first place.

Since you've brought up attitude, let me say I'm concerned about you and your attitude DHK. When a preacher tells the truth about what goes on, you deem that as an attack? That's interesting. It's also incorrect in its assessment. You need to react to truth in a different manner than you have here, and leave out your pejorative disparaging attitude towards others you don't want to agree with. Not that you don't agree with them, you don't want to agree with them. I recall in another post you laying someone out for not believing your testimony as an "ex RCC" and calling that a personal attack for doubting you? I draw the same conclusion here, using your methods.

But hey, have a good day anyhow. I really couldn't care less what you think of me and the truth I've shared.

- Peace

 

[preacher4truth]

I don't get the animosity towards KJVO. If they want to use the KJV exclusively, then let them.

1. The KJV is the Word of God. It;s not like they are using the Book of Mormon or something.

2. They are leading people to Christ. They are carrying out the Great Commission.

3. I don't know of a single verse that states that KJVO is a false doctrine. In fact, for 300 years it wasnt an issue, everybody in the English speaking world used it. So what makes it evil now?

4. Calling brothers and sisters in Christ heretics just because you don't agree with their choice of text seems quite sinful to me.

Leave those people alone. If God wants them to use a different Bible version then He will lead them to it.

John

Although I won't call KJVO heretics, I believe you are missing the boat on what KJVO is. It's not what you are describing. Perhaps ask Luke2427 to elaborate on just what he means here. It's not simply calling another an heretic over their choice of text brother.

- Peace

 

[annsni]

I don't get the animosity towards KJVO. If they want to use the KJV exclusively, then let them.

1. The KJV is the Word of God. It;s not like they are using the Book of Mormon or something.

2. They are leading people to Christ. They are carrying out the Great Commission.

3. I don't know of a single verse that states that KJVO is a false doctrine. In fact, for 300 years it wasnt an issue, everybody in the English speaking world used it. So what makes it evil now?

4. Calling brothers and sisters in Christ heretics just because you don't agree with their choice of text seems quite sinful to me.

Leave those people alone. If God wants them to use a different Bible version then He will lead them to it.

John

The issue is when the KJVO followers say that anyone who uses a modern Bible version is using a perversion and going to hell because you cannot be saved with these bibles from hell. THAT is heresy.