Is it Typical In IFB Churches?

[dcorbett]

I personally don't believe that someone who is KJVO is a heretic. It is not a criteria for judging if one is saved, or if one is following Baptist doctrine.


Dictionary definition of heretic:
1.a professed believer who maintains religious opinions contrary to those accepted by his or her church or rejects doctrines prescribed by that church.

2.Roman Catholic Church . a baptized Roman Catholic who willfully and persistently rejects any article of faith.

3.anyone who does not conform to an established attitude, doctrine, or principle.

 

[preacher4truth]

What's the college? Let us look and decide for ourselves if they do these things.

Seek and you shall find. Just pretend I'm lying, you're most comfortable that way.

 

[matt wade]

Seek and you shall find. Just pretend I'm lying, you're most comfortable that way.

I'm not saying you are lying. I'm simply asking which college it is. Why is that such a difficult request? I'd be interested in reading their information on this topic myself.

 

[preacher4truth]

I'm not saying you are lying. I'm simply asking which college it is. Why is that such a difficult request? I'd be interested in reading their information on this topic myself.

Your statement implies your attitude that I've rightly alluded to. I attempted to send it to you in PM, (the school info) but your box is full. After this attempt, I've decided to pass and not share it with you. It wouldn't matter if I did, you'd disagree with what is plainly stated. You've already cast doubt upon my public statements I've shared which is saying I'm just not telling a straight story.


- Peace

 

[matt wade]

Your statement implies your attitude that I've rightly alluded to. I attempted to send it to you in PM, (the school info) but your box is full. After this attempt, I've decided to pass and not share it with you. It wouldn't matter if I did, you'd disagree with what is plainly stated. You've already cast doubt upon my public statements I've shared which is saying I'm just not telling a straight story.

I have plenty of room in my PM box now.

 

[agedman]

A bit of history

This thread has been all over the place!!!!!!!

I though I might bring up a bit of history and see if the other forum folk might determine the validity of my conclusions or not.

I will stay with one person and situation so as not to generalize.

Dr. Bob Jones, Sr. was very used to preaching with no sound amplification. In fact the raspiness (is that a word?) no doubt resulted in nodules and scarred vocal cords. He would sometimes in his excitement revert to that volume even though during his last decade or so of travel most places were at least beginning to be amplified.

Early in his chapel messages on campus, he realized that the amplification was making him louder than he originally thought and so he turned his own volume down. It is most noticeable on the recordings of the radio messages where he presents a more conversational tone.

Have said all that, some of the preacher boys seemed to have the idea that declaring most loudly the message was being both fervent in demeanor and also true to the preaching that was preaching, and they would boast of how Dr. Bob would race around the platform and shout out the message - therefore they were going to, too.

Early in the thread Jack Hyles was mentioned, and in my opinion he followed the preaching style of J. Frank Norris. The problem being volume equaled sincerity and the more fervor then certainly the more important to the listener. Hyles' sermons became heretical, and his life a shameful disgrace that his son in law has yet to denounce.

The problem being that most are not as smart and audience aware as Dr. Bob Jones was, and do/did not temper their sermons and volume to fit the environment.

There is also the human nature of "working up a sweat" that is to be taken into consideration. I once had a coach who thought that if you weren't sweating, you weren't putting the greatest effort.

Personally, In my opinion, the modern person doesn't listen to anything longer than 13 to 15 minutes, and if the message is delivered at the two extremes of monotone or shouting, have less than a 5 minute retention span.

And those of us on heart medications ----- forget it.

Two minutes and I am fighting to stay awake unless the message is more than evangelistic.

My conclusion: Stand up, Speak up, Shut up!!! a quote from Dr. Bob Jones Sr. I would add, if you have to shout, I'll meet you outside, for most cultured people have learned the difference between and outside and an inside voice.

 

[Jerome]

May be referring to that Heartland college (rump group that splintered from the BBFI)?

I don't know what the big secret is.

 

[matt wade]

May be referring to that Heartland college (rump group that splintered from the BBFI)?

I don't know what the big secret is.

Yes, they do list KJVO as a distinctive and the first one. The also say that the don't believe the KJV was inspired.

Is there really something wrong with a college that says, "We believe the the KJV is the best Bible available and as such that is all we will use at this school."? Does it affect the Kingdom work in any way? Does it keep people from Jesus?

 

[agedman]

Isn't there enough of God's word not to fret about the version?

Honestly!

Sometimes people just want to be sooooooooooo

"distinctive."

Guaranteed that behind it all is lust of money and pride.

Bragging rights.

Boasting over who has the most, best, least, greatest, ...

At least the good Baptist Paul didn't baptize very many or some would be arguing to this day that they are the ancestral holder of all truth because of the touch of Paul.

 

[Don]

Yes, they do list KJVO as a distinctive and the first one. The also say that the don't believe the KJV was inspired.

Is there really something wrong with a college that says, "We believe the the KJV is the best Bible available and as such that is all we will use at this school."? Does it affect the Kingdom work in any way? Does it keep people from Jesus?

P4T may be referring to Oklahoma Baptist College...who, by the way, have no love for Heartland, and think Heartland to be "liberal."

And, by the way, is an offshoot of Hyles.

 

[matt wade]

P4T may be referring to Oklahoma Baptist College...who, by the way, have no love for Heartland, and think Heartland to be "liberal."

And, by the way, is an offshoot of Hyles.

Oklahoma Baptist College on the KJV:

The Bible is the verbally inspired, infallible, inerrant Word of the living God and is the final authority in all matters of faith, doctrine, and practice. Not only was it inspired when God caused it to be written, but it is preserved today. The King James Bible is the Word of God and is reliable, trustworthy, accurate, and proven. The King James Bible is the only Bible used and upheld in all teaching and preaching at Oklahoma Baptist College and is the only Bible sold in our bookstore. Although we take this position on the King James Bible, we do not fall into the censorious character of many of our brethren who take this same position on the Bible.

Note the last sentence.

 

[Don]

Note the last sentence.

"We do not fall into the [highly critical, censure, fault-finding] character of many of our brethren...." ???

I assume they meant the "fault-finding" definition. Otherwise, to quote a favorite character: "I do not think that means what you think it means." (not you, Matt, but them)

---edited to add:
But to answer your question (Is there really something wrong with a college that says, "We believe the the KJV is the best Bible available and as such that is all we will use at this school."? Does it affect the Kingdom work in any way? Does it keep people from Jesus?): No, I don't believe there is.

 

[preacher4truth]

Has a person stated that preaching from the KJV, saying it is the best Bible available keep people from Jesus?

 

[matt wade]

Has a person stated that preaching from the KJV, saying it is the best Bible available keep people from Jesus?

So what exactly is your objection to KJVO then?

 

[preacher4truth]

So what exactly is your objection to KJVO then?

Do you have an answer to my question?

 

[matt wade]

Do you have an answer to my question?

I don't recall saying that anyone on this board said that. I asked the general question "Does it keep anyone from Jesus?". I didn't say that anyone here had said that.

So, what's your objection then?

 

[preacher4truth]

I don't recall saying that anyone on this board said that. I asked the general question "Does it keep anyone from Jesus?". I didn't say that anyone here had said that.

So, what's your objection then?

I see. First off, I've not claimed that you made such a statement. Don made the statement.

On KJVO, contrary to what a school will TELL you I will go by what is practiced and what I witness and know, will that suit you?

 

[matt wade]

I see. First off, I've not claimed that you made such a statement. Don made the statement.

On KJVO, contrary to what a school will TELL you I will go by what is practiced and what I witness and know, will that suit you?

But what exactly is your objection to KJVO? I've referred back to your earlier post (http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1762656&postcount=780) and all you seem to say is that the college is KJVO and that there are churches that are KJVO. That's not in dispute. I agree with you. I can name many colleges that are KJVO. I can name many churches that are KJVO. I go to a church that is KJVO.

The questions is, what's the problem with KJVO? Why do you have an objection to it? Unless you contend that a majority of KJVO people think that KJVO is a salvation issue (which I agree is heresy, but I believe that is a very small fringe group), let's just leave that group out. Other than them, what's your objection?

 

[preacher4truth]

But what exactly is your objection to KJVO? I've referred back to your earlier post (http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1762656&postcount=780) and all you seem to say is that the college is KJVO and that there are churches that are KJVO. That's not in dispute. I agree with you. I can name many colleges that are KJVO. I can name many churches that are KJVO. I go to a church that is KJVO.

The questions is, what's the problem with KJVO? Why do you have an objection to it? Unless you contend that a majority of KJVO people think that KJVO is a salvation issue (which I agree is heresy, but I believe that is a very small fringe group), let's just leave that group out. Other than them, what's your objection?

I think part of the issues is in the definitions. KJVO/KJVP. I feel I must state that I am not against the KJV.

I have no problem with KJVO when it is more along the lines of KJVP. The issues I have with "O" are most likely the same issues you may have:

- The KJV is the only true Bible/Word of God.

- Emphasis on the "1611" only.

- Fantasies concerning the KJVO such as if saved under another version, you're not saved; that the KJVO is 7 times purified (as if God needs His Word to be purified by men involved in translating); all other versions are "per" versions, mathematical "proofs" from verse numbers, chapters & c that prove it is the only true Word of God, &c.

- When the version itself is preached about.

- Condemnation of others who don't use the version (which would include the foreign tongues.)

- Self-righteous attitudes about the KJV due to one using it only.

- Adherence to the fallacies of G. A. Riplinger.

- The teaching that the KJV is inspired.

- Messages becoming thematic, i.e. typically coming back to "the 1611!" in messages.

All of the above are done out of ignorance and are not an eternal issue, until one preaches these things, then it becomes an eternal issue to which I believe none will be too happy to find this is not Biblical preaching. God is not going to require us to answer for what version we preached from, but if we preached His Word faithfully, and the above is not preaching the Word, yet the KJVO of this cloth do in fact believe that such is preaching the Word.

I believe the above (among other things alongside this type of KJVOism) are recently developed ideologies and doctrines that are centered upon hate for others, pride about oneself and a stance which isn't a Biblical stance, centered upon the flesh because this has nothing to do with spirituality, salvation, ones standing with God, things of this sort whatsoever.

One other issue among these is the unwillingness to bring scholarly, labored and prayerful exposition of truth from the Word of God. Instead such is typically replaced by a stomp and snort ad lib "text and a tantrum" "message."

I believe the above attitudes to be shameful and an embarrasment to the truth and to the true preaching of the Word of God.

On a personal note the KJV was the only Bible I ever preached from for years until recently. I was never KJVO nor KJVP it was simply the Bible that I happened to preach from and was the text always used/never preached about in the church I was saved in. After sadly witnessing this type of banter from MANY churches I am glad to no longer be affiliated with such types. How do some of these now react to me? With hatred and slander and condemnation all due to a "version." Not all, but there are some.

 

[glfredrick]

The questions is, what's the problem with KJVO? Why do you have an objection to it? Unless you contend that a majority of KJVO people think that KJVO is a salvation issue (which I agree is heresy, but I believe that is a very small fringe group), let's just leave that group out. Other than them, what's your objection?

I think that the posting from the school confirmed that some -- or perhaps many, who knows -- DO think that the KJVO is a salvific principle. That's why they wrote what they wrote concerning other churches and colleges.

You have called that practice heretical. I agree, for we KNOW that the Scriptures existed before a particular king stole an English text from another man and called it after his own name.

Many down through the ages have attempted to do away with the Bible in many ways. Dictating that there is only one correct translation is just one of them. The original texts were written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Koine Greek. All (ALL) others are translations of the original and subject to the same flaws in interpretation, foreshortening critical word usages, leaving out or adding in words to make the sentences read properly in the translated language, etc.

Additionally, what KJVO people are in fact saying is that no one who uses some other version beside the KJV (and are you all using the ACTUAL authorized 1611 text?) are not really reading the Word of God in their own language. That sure would have been a surprise to Martin Luther, Huss, the Orthodox, virtually every Roman Catholic in history (as well as the splinter groups so popular around here, who also used the Latin Bible), and others down through the ages.

If ever there was an heretical thought it is that no one except the reader of the KJV is reading the proper Word of God. What arrogance! What lack of trust that the Holy Spirit might illuminate the text for someone else! Idolatry for a version!