Public School Gone Wild

[FR7 Baptist]

We had one of those sort of "interesting teachers" back in my high school days. He ended up dying by choking on his own vomit at a student party...

WOW! None of my teachers were that crazy. My favorite teacher in high school was Mr. Edwards. He taught psychology, sociology, law, and American history. He would teach psychological theories and then basically analyze himself in front of the class. He said he had an oral fixation and latent feminine tendencies, which is why he smokes Virginia Slims, which he referred to on multiple occasions as his "gay cigarettes". He also told us that his wife makes more money than him and was listed first on their mortgage. He said he does all the cooking and cleaning at home.

Mr. Edwards described his religious views as a "backsliding Lutheran". That means he believes in God but has issues accepting Christian dogma, but he goes to church anyway, except not every week.

 

[Mexdeaf]

There are a great deal more jobs that work much harder and make much less than teachers in this country. Those who work for the government seem to feel they have a special justification to complain about their pay. I do not buy it. There is not an endless supply of money to provide whatever government employees want.

There are a lot of jobs in this country who work a lot harder for more hours and less pay than you. They have to raise their families just the same. They have to pay rents, and mortgages just the same. Teachers are no more special than the local ditch digger. If you do not like your pay or cannot live off of it, go do something else.

Excuse me but- FAIL! I know lots of 'ditch diggers' who know what they missed out on and promote education.

 

[mandym]

Excuse me but- FAIL! I know lots of 'ditch diggers' who know what they missed out on and promote education.

It doesn't change what I said. We all have work to do. We all have families to support. We all have the same needs and the same value in this world.

 

[Gina B]

For Mandy, I also have to add that money isn't everything. One can still believe their pay should be more, but continue doing what you love.

Decent people tend to try to make doing what they love and feel called to do their primary goal. Teaching children definitely takes a unique personality and the person should be exemplary in their personal and professional lives, but the lower degree of pay and what teacher's have to put up with now does take a lot of the joy out of it and leaves us with teachers who either give up or just do it for a job.
Give teacher's back their classrooms and you get back the nation's kids.

But still...it's important for a person to do what they love. You know the old saying...do what you love and you'll never work a minute of your life, right?

It still just really amazes me that what is likely the most important profession with the highest impact on society is so often viewed as simply a money-maker by those not in it and people simply view the teachers as glorified, overpaid babysitters. That type of attitude is exactly why schools are going downhill and the teaching profession in danger of becoming just that...a glorified babysitting job that gets paid no better than other jobs with parents sending their disrespectful kids in to learn their life lessons from someone the parent has already spent hours putting down, then they go crying foul when little Johnny or Susie gets in trouble for acting like a little jerk at school. It must, of course, be a reflection on the teacher. UGH!

 

[Mexdeaf]

We all have the same needs and the same value in this world.

I respectfully disagree.

 

[targus]

Mandy, have you considered things such as there are supposed to be benefits for taking the time and effort to get a college education and work towards mastering a skill?

Many, if not most, jobs require education so I don't know that it is a particularly good arguement for higher teachers pay.

Have you considered that teachers are the ones responsible for molding the minds of the next generation? Of all paid professionals, teachers have the most impact in the next generation. Almost every single child in this country spends more of their waking time with their teacher/s than with any other person. That's a lot of time and a lot of influence. A caring, loving teacher changes a student for life. A bad one scars one for life.

Which is a great argument for on going evaluation of teachers to consider whether they should be allowed to continue to teach rather than the union system which helps to keep really bad teachers in their jobs.

The lack of respect for teachers, such as what you're exhibiting, is becoming grossly apparent in schools and that lack of respect starts at home. It's wrong of you to contribute to that.

I don't understand how pointing out that there are many professions that demand harder and longer hours for less pay is disrespectful of teachers.

In our state teachers work 180 days a school year. That is the equivalent 16 weeks of vacation and holidays a year.

Many professions require on going professional education. CPA's in our state are required to take 40 hours of continuing education each year. Teachers in our state have no such requirement.

 

[mcdirector]

Students go to school 180 days (or more depending on the state and county). Teachers are required to work more days than that.

 

[targus]

Students go to school 180 days (or more depending on the state and county). Teachers are required to work more days than that.

True, perhaps three or four days.

So let's round it down to 15 weeks of vacation and holidays.

What other profession pays as well for so much time off?

 

[Mexdeaf]

True, perhaps three or four days.

So let's round it down to 15 weeks of vacation and holidays.

What other profession pays as well for so much time off?

I don't know where you get your facts or where you live but teachers here work more like a month more than the students attend.

My question is, if it's so easy and pays so great, why are so many teachers leaving the profession and so many young people changing their majors from education to other majors in college?

 

[targus]

I don't know where you get your facts or where you live but teachers here work more like a month more than the students attend.

My question is, if it's so easy and pays so great, why are so many teachers leaving the profession and so many young people changing their majors from education to other majors in college?

Teachers are leaving because they are afraid that the retirement plans will change and want to retire now while it is still a fantastic deal.

Kids are changing majors away from education because there is one teaching position for about every hunderd applications.

In my wife's schoold district it is more like 200 applications for every open position.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Teachers are leaving because they are afraid that the retirement plans will change and want to retire now while it is still a fantastic deal.

Kids are changing majors away from education because there is one teaching position for about every hunderd applications.

In my wife's schoold district it is more like 200 applications for every open position.

You should get out more.

 

[targus]

You should get out more.

Is it your understanding that there are teaching jobs going begging everywhere?

I am speaking from direct knowledge being married to a teacher. Through her I personally know perhaps fifty other teachers. I live in a resort area where teachers vacation every summer and I have talked at length with many of them.

What is the basis for your opinion?

 

[jaigner]

Teachers are no more special than the local ditch digger. If you do not like your pay or cannot live off of it, go do something else.

You're really a piece of work, Amanda. I wonder if you're the reincarnation of revmitchell sometimes.

I wasn't complaining about it to begin with. I do my job because it's my calling, not because I want to get rich, and God has always provided more than enough.

Still, it's just asinine to assert that teachers are overpaid.

 

[targus]

Still, it's just asinine to assert that teachers are overpaid.

Good teachers are not overpaid - nor would I say that they are underpaid either.

Poor teachers are overpaid no matter what their compensation.

IMO something needs to be done to weed out the bad teachers.

That would also allow teachers to be paid on the basis of the true labor market rather than based on union demands.

 

[jaigner]

Good teachers are not overpaid - nor would I say that they are underpaid either.

Poor teachers are overpaid no matter what their compensation.

IMO something needs to be done to weed out the bad teachers.

That would also allow teachers to be paid on the basis of the true labor market rather than based on union demands.

That would be ideal. Unfortunately, it will take a while to get there.

Also, the instruments for evaluating teachers are usually quite poor and subjective, so it would be very hard to rate the effectiveness.

And we all know that judging a teacher by test results is unhelpful.

 

[targus]

That would be ideal. Unfortunately, it will take a while to get there.

Also, the instruments for evaluating teachers are usually quite poor and subjective, so it would be very hard to rate the effectiveness.

And we all know that judging a teacher by test results is unhelpful.

True test results alone don't tell the true quality of the teacher.

I would guess though that in just about any school everyone on the staff knows who the truly bad teachers are.

Perhaps what is needed is a system whereby the pricipal and a committee of the teachers make recommendations to the school board concerning teachers that just aren't cutting it.

The school board could then make a decision as to releasing, transferring or requiring additional training for a particular teacher.

Just speculating out loud.

 

[Sapper Woody]

Teachers are no more special than the local ditch digger.

I would have to disagree. Anyone who has worked harder to better themselves have done just that; bettered themselves. In today's America, any child can go to college if they apply themselves (grants, scholarships, student loans). If someone does not, they have failed themselves and have no reason to complain when they aren't making as much money as someone who did.

 

[glfredrick]

Originally Posted by mandym
Teachers are no more special than the local ditch digger.

I would have to disagree. Anyone who has worked harder to better themselves have done just that; bettered themselves. In today's America, any child can go to college if they apply themselves (grants, scholarships, student loans). If someone does not, they have failed themselves and have no reason to complain when they aren't making as much money as someone who did.

Have to comment on this one... My brother had a few learning disabilities. Couple that with him having one of the most horrendous teachers I have ever witnessed in my life, and you end up with a failure in the making.

This particular teacher told my brother that his mother must have dropped him on his head at some point in his life, and on another occaision told him that he could only hope to be a ditch digger for life.

Wow, was that teacher right... My brother was not dropped on his head, but rathar the same product as the rest of the brothers in our family -- suffered a few birth defects from some of the prescription drugs that doctors offered to pregant women in the late 50s and early 60s. All four of us were born with birth defects... And, yes, my brother ended up as a ditch digger... He is a foreman for Michaels Pipeline and has an annual income in the 85K range per year. He has been Operating Engineer of the year three times in a corporation that is staffed with excellant heavy equipment operators. He has a brand new home, almost a million in the bank, a nice family with a daughter that has been runner up for Miss Wisconsin twice and who now dates a pitcher from the Milwaukee Brewers.

Yup... The teacher has probably long since croaked of health related issues due to her extreme obesity and obscene attitude.

There are good teachers, bad teachers, in between teachers that just get the job done, and every once in a while, an AWESOME teacher that changes the world he or she touches. God bless them all. We need them.

Now, if we could just separate the TEACHERS from the union that drives them. THAT would make the largest difference in American educational history!

 

[Sapper Woody]

@ glfredrick:

Good for your brother. He overcame odds and is successful at what he is doing.

My post was not meant to bash ditch diggers, but rather to say that those who work harder are entitled to more than those who don't. If my post offended you, I apologize. Again, it wasn't my intent to put anyone down, but to lift teachers (as a whole, obviously there are bad teachers out there) up.

 

[jaigner]

Now, if we could just separate the TEACHERS from the union that drives them. THAT would make the largest difference in American educational history!

If you're up in that area, you probably deal with that a lot.

Most of us, though, are not union.