You said: Stop. How exactly does our old nature die?
My reply: We die to our old nature by a conscious agreement to do so.
You said: Let me explain my response: while we are in this flesh, we remain a part of a fallen world. Until our bodies are redeemed...we will not be free from sin completely.
My reply: Have you ever given up ANY sin for Jesus, any? Do you still live the same way as before you came to Christ? There is nothing wrong with speaking publically about sins we do and have repented of, so please be open to discussing it.
You said: You can say our "old nature is to die," and I agree. We are to put on Christ, and not make provision for the flesh.
My reply: So then why are you going on and debating me?
You said: Our association with Christ is not spiritually tied to water baptism.
My reply: Water baptism is when we make the outward pledge to God, to die to the ways of this world.
You said: Baptism carries with it a connotation of association, such as we see here:
1 Corinthians 10
1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
Did Moses personally, or even with the help of others, stop to baptise both in the cloud and the sea?
See what I mean?
My reply: I know what you mean. However, we are talking about water baptism for those wanting to obey God through Jesus Christ.
You said: It would be better to say, "Look how baptism pictures..."lol.
But thanks.
My reply: You are welcome. Although, I meant what I said, picture how baptism looks.
You said: We have a responsibility to put off sin in our mortal members, and not to make provision for the flesh, however, to think that we are "children of wrath" until we "die to the flesh," which implies sinlessness, as well as implies that one cannot obtain salvation until they cease from sin is something that I disagree with.
My reply: I only quote and speak of the scriptures. You just admitted to disagreeing with the Word of God.
You said: Though we err and sin, the law has no more claim over us, meaning, it's penalty has already been paid in Christ, which is what "you died to the law through the body of Christ" means.
My reply: You seem to be missing some truths about the law. You also seem to be missing some truth about what Jesus does for us. Romans 7:8 But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. Did you see that? SIN, SEIZING THE OPPORTUNITY AFFORDED BY THE COMMANDMENT, PRODUCED IN ME EVERY KIND OF COVETING.
You said: Until we die or receive glorified bodies we still dwell in this world, and in our earthly bodies which have yet to be redeemed. Which is why Paul uses terms like "reckon."
My reply: You have a defeatist attitude about sin, this does make me wonder about your life since you have been dead and living by the Spirit.
You said: Notice two things:
1-believers are told to put to death their members (which does not speak of the biting and devouring we see on the forums...lol!), showing the need to do so despite the fact that they have received life in Christ;
My reply: Try a different translation for this scripture. The scriptures do NOT tell us to put to death anyone.
You said: 2-he distinguishes between believers and the children of wrath, which is a term never used to describe the saved, but the lost.
My reply: 5Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.b 7You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices
Did you see that? You USED to walk in these ways.
You said: Sinlessness is an impossibility for the believer. I believe that we can live holy before the Lord, and progressively reach a higher standard of holiness as we mature, but, I cannot deny that by both the command of God for the believer to put to death the deeds of the body (which implies the potential in believers) and the fact the body is as of yet unredeemed, I do not believe that any man can live in complete and total sinlessness.
Unless he is in a coma.
My reply: 1 John 2:1 My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
You said: Ah, good, another one that assumes. For the record...I am not a Calvinist. Nor am I one that builds upon his own doctrine by first tearing down those that they do not even know, much less know their doctrine.
My reply: It is not merely assuming. You defend Calvinism. You speak like Calvinists. So do not be surprised when someone sees the Calvinist spirit in you.
You said: It is true that we confront error when it is brought before us, but honestly, in the time I have spent debating, those who hold hatred in their heart for those of differing beliefs will be the last ones that will ever reach anyone that is in error.
My reply: I hate false religion and false doctrine, doctrine that goes against the Word of God. For you falsely accuse me of hating people is to go against the Word of God. You show me what is in your heart when you falsely accuse me, you will not nullify the truth, the word of God that I speak, by falsely accusing me, and you will not make me stop by your hateful words. Do you think that this tactic has not been tried on me before? I am a long time away from the baby Christian I used to be, one who would sit and cry after those in falseness would say as a defense that I was hateful.
You said: It is like they say, "They will not care how much you know until they know how much you care."
My reply: I would not be wasting my whole morning and afternoon on people like you if I did not care. I just want to help you to know Him better. For that, you call me hateful. The Lord blesses me for trying, and I hope that I am at least strengthening others who already know the truth.
