Cornelius, a Just Man Who Feared God

[Moriah]

You teach a works salvation !

Cornelius was a Gentile and Gentiles did not do circumcision, as commanded by God, and so in this, they did not obey God.

There is The Law in the Old Testament, The Law that consists of sins not to do, and of good to do, and then there is the works of the law, both together called The Law.
Gentiles did not do the works of the law, the WORKS of the law does not just mean not to steal, commit adultery, etc., the works of the law were circumcision, it is a written code with regulations, for worship, and an earthly sanctuary. Gifts and sacrifices were required for worship and the earthly sanctuary. They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washing---external regulations.
God forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.
Therefore, we are not to let anyone judge us by what we eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration, or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of what were to come; the reality, however, we find in Christ.

On the Sabbath day, the law said that no one could work, not to even lift objects. Do you see the correlation from Sabbath day no works to no works for being saved? Jesus is our Sabbath rest, we are saved by faith, and not of by works. A NO WORK rule was in place for the Sabbath day. Just like we are saved by faith and NO WORKS; however, Jesus says it is UNLAWFUL to do evil on the NO WORK day of the Sabbath, and Jesus said it was LAWFUL to do good on the NO WORK day of the Sabbath, see Luke 6:9. For people to misconstrue that no work means we do not have to repent from doing evil before Jesus saves us is absurd. Jesus tells us to believe and repent, Matthew 4:17. God knows are hearts and if we are truly contrite, Acts 15:8. The message that saves is a message that says Jesus died for sinners, Acts 11:14. If we hear the message that saves, yet do not believe we are sinners and need to stop sinning, then God will know this.

 

[savedbymercy]

mor

Cornelius was a Gentile

So ! He was a Righteous man before God !

 

[Iconoclast]

1. The moniker "God-fearer" was a term given to those Gentiles who acknowledge that the God of Israel was the one true God, but who did not make the full immersion into Israelite life (circumcision, feasts, etc.) This describes Cornelius.

2. When the scriptures calls a man "righteous", we must consider it in light of other scriptures that say there is "none righteous". The solution may not be immediatly apparent, but you have to admit that it does require some working out. You can't simply say, "Well, there are "none righteous...except cornelius, and Job, and Joseph." God describes several people as being "righteous," including Job, who goes on later to acknowledge his own sinfulness.

3. God does say he will accept the righteous, but he also says none is righteous. God says if we break one point of the law, we are guilty of all of it.

4. I'm not sure of the point of your post, but you seem to be believing the "Myth of the noble pagan." It is an old idea, promoted in movies like Tarzan, Pocahantas, Avatar...in which people who are left to themselves outside modern influence will naturally be good if only we don't corrupt them. The fact is it isn't true. All people groups, large or small, remote or not, descend into base sin and need the gospel of Christ to come and reveal to them the righteousness that comes by faith in Christ.

5. Read Romans 10:1-4. Paul prays for the salvation of these Jews, who despite having a "zeal for God" that drove them try to be righteous; are NOT Saved. In fact their very sin is the fact that they are seeking to establish their own righteousness, rather than rely on the righteousness that God wants to give them in Christ.

Of course you are exactly correct,,he was a proselyte...:thumbs: the scripture does not contradict itself,

 

[Iconoclast]

Amazing how these Calvin followers think.....

Yes,,,biblically.....you can try it also:thumbs:

 

[savedbymercy]

Cornelius was already a Justified man before God before God sent him the Gospel. Acts 10:22

22And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

The scripture promises that the Just shall live by Faith ! Rom 1:17

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

 

[Moriah]

Cornelius was already a Justified man before God before God sent him the Gospel. Acts 10:22

22And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

The scripture promises that the Just shall live by Faith ! Rom 1:17

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

You keep forgetting the main point, and that main point is the part that Calvinists base all their false doctrines on and that is that God gives His Spirit to unbelievers to cause them to believe. Nowhere in the Bible says that. If it is not in the Bible, then it is not the written Word of God.
If it is not in the Bible, then it is man's doctrine, which then nullifies God's word.

 

[savedbymercy]

mor

You keep forgetting the main point

Why don't you deal with that Truth in post 45 ?

 

[Moriah]

Savedbymercy,

Here is your quotes from post 45.

Cornelius was already a Justified man before God before God sent him the Gospel. Acts 10:22

Acts 10:22 does not say God gives His Spirit to unbelievers to cause them to believe.

22And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

The scripture promises that the Just shall live by Faith ! Rom 1:17

This scripture does not say God gives His Spirit to unbelievers to cause them to believe.

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

This scripture does not say God gives His Spirit to unbelievers to cause them to believe.

Do not give me your assumptions. Show me a scripture that says God gives His Spirit to unbelievers to cause them to believe.

 

[Moriah]

Cornelius was already a Justified man before God before God sent him the Gospel. Acts 10:22

22And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

The scripture promises that the Just shall live by Faith ! Rom 1:17

For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

The Jews who were hardened and cut off so that the Gentiles could obtain salvation, God can graft them back in if they do not persist in unbelief. If “they” do not persist in unbelief, not “God can graft them back in if He decides to give them belief.”

Romans 11:23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

This next scripture also shows the falseness of Calvinism, for this scripture says, “But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.” This scripture does NOT say, “But whenever God makes anyone turn to the Lord, the veil is taken away.”

2 Corinthians 3:16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Moriah: Show me a scripture that says God gives His Spirit to unbelievers to cause them to believe.

HP: It was Augustine that taught, after writing extensively in support of free will and then turning against the teachings of the early Christian fathers including but not limited by any means to Ambrose, that man could not do anything, anything at all whether in thought, deed, affection, except by the 'grace' of God. That was a novel idea of grace not held by Scripture or one single early church father that I have read or heard about. Such a novel idea of the grace of God was introduced by Augustine as a sovereign work of God enabling man to obey Him, without which they could do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING RIGHT OR GOOD. Grace, according to Augustine, provided the coercion from God necessary to even receive salvations offer. God had to first enable the elect to receive His offer without which they could not.

In this Augustine in reality destroys the Scriptural concept of grace, and turns grace into mere justice. If God is going to condemn man for failure to do what God Himself cannot even do, i.e., act contrary to necessitated fate, it is justice, not grace, that God should offer them an escape from their fate. To suggest that all would not have that opportunity, in light of Augustinian original sin, is the height of making God out to be a respecter of persons, and paints a most horrible blight on the Justice and Character of a Holy God.

Moriah, we know full well Scriptures do not ever state that God has to 'cause" unbelievers to believe. Scripture everywhere indicates that God stands at the hearts door and knocks, not coerces or causes.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

 

[Moriah]

Moriah, we know full well Scriptures do not ever state that God has to 'cause" unbelievers to believe. Scripture everywhere indicates that God stands at the hearts door and knocks, not coerces or causes.

Rev 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

Beautiful...this is purely beautiful.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

God's Word is beautiful, making wise the simple.:thumbs:

 

[savedbymercy]

mor

Acts 10:22 does not say God gives His Spirit to unbelievers to cause them to believe.

Cornelius was already Righteous before He believed the Gospel and before The Spirit came upon him. Acts 10:22

22And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

He was already saved and going to be in the resurrection of the Just Lk 14:14

And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

Acts 24:15

And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

 

[Moriah]

mor



Cornelius was already Righteous before He believed the Gospel and before The Spirit came upon him. Acts 10:22

22And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

He was already saved and going to be in the resurrection of the Just Lk 14:14

And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just.

Acts 24:15

And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

So, what is your argument now? Is your argument shifting from saying the Holy Spirit saves an unbeliever, makes him born again, and causes him to have faith, when he hears the gospel? On the other hand, are you shifting now to say they are saved and born again before they hear the message, even though the Word of God tells us it is the message that saves? Having shifting answers shows the falseness of Calvin's teachings. If the later answer, that people are saved and born again before they hear the message, which is contrary to the Word, then there is no real need to hear the message. Why then does the scriptures say, "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance."

Say to them, 'As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, I take no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but rather that they turn from their ways and live. Turn! Turn from your evil ways! Why will you die, O house of Israel?'

Why does God ask this question to the wicked? Do you think that Calvin could give God the answer? Do you think that God asks the question to them knowing they cannot turn from their evil ways because He has just not caused them to turn? How about they do not turn because they choose not to turn from their evil ways, and their sin of rejecting God can be their sin alone, having God call out to them, and they choose not to turn, what a sin indeed!

 

[savedbymercy]

mor

So, what is your argument now?

Go back and read the thread, my input starts at post 15

 

[Moriah]

Cornelius was already saved if He feared God, because an unsaved man cannot fear God. Rom 3:18

There is no fear of God before their eyes.

This verse describes all men by nature, thats why Paul says in the very next verse Rom 3:18-19


19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

So it was not the natural man Cornelius that feared God, but the New Creature. Also Peter acknowledged that Cornelius had already been accepted of God, before He preached to him ! Notice his words Acts 10:34-35

34Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

35But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

Now, it was told us way back in vs 2 that Cornelius feared God Acts 10:2

2A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

So he was then already accepted of God ! He was in a saved, regenerated state when God sent him the Gospel of peace !

Cornelius was a Gentile. There were Gentiles who feared God. As Gentiles, they were EXCLUDED from the promises and separated from Christ, see Ephesians 2:12. As a Gentile, Cornelius was EXCLUDED.

"remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world."

As Gentiles, God EXCLUDED us. God excluded us from the COVENANTS of the promise. As for fearing God, this is what ALL should do, all of us. Doing good things, this is what we are to do, all of us. However, we ALSO have to obey. The Gentiles did not obey the law of circumcision and all the other laws no matter how much good they might have done, and no matter how much fear they might of had, they were still excluded. We ALL must ALSBEY God. Again, the Gentiles did not obey God with circumcision. When I was a Catholic I feared God, but did I obey God? I obeyed what the Catholics taught. I did not have Jesus revealed to me UNTIL I had the teachings of Jesus and obeyed. In the old covenant, God's word said be physically circumcised, and in the new covenant, there are new things we are told, and we are told to obey, and what are we to obey? The scriptures tell us we are to confess and call on the name of the Lord. "If anyone loves me he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Jesus says when we obey God that is our loving God. When the Father and Jesus make their home with us that is when God seals us with the Holy Spirit.
How do you continually say that Cornelius already was part of the promises before hearing the message that saves? To believe that is to deny the Word of God. Do you think man's words are better? Do you like what Calvin reasons as the truth, more than what the Word says?

 

[savedbymercy]

mor

Cornelius was a Gentile

Tell us something we did not know !

.

There were Gentiles who feared God. As Gentiles, they were EXCLUDED from the promises and separated from Christ,

No they weren't, that is what the Gospel revealed as the Mystery. Eph 3:5-6

5Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:


Now back to the point, Cornelius was a Justified Man before God before the Gospel was sent to Him Acts 10:22

22And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

There were not many jews this could be said of ! He was accepted of God when thousands upon thousands jews had been cut off.

Also this proves that a Man must Be Justified before God and one who fears before the Gospel is sent to them as the word of Salvation !

Scripture confirms that fact here Acts 13:26

Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

 

[Moriah]

Cornelius was a Gentile

Tell us something we did not know !

If you realize that Cornelius was a Gentile, then why do you say they were not excluded from the promise? You go against God's own Word, just to stand up for John Calvin and people like Paul Washer. I have shown you scripture saying the Gentiles were excluded.

There were Gentiles who feared God. As Gentiles, they were EXCLUDED from the promises and separated from Christ,

No they weren't, that is what the Gospel revealed as the Mystery. Eph 3:5-6

Ephesians DOES NOT say Gentiles were part of the inheritance all along. Ephesians explains how Gentiles were excluded and now able to have eternal life through Jesus Christ. The mystery hidden and now known is the fact that the Old Testament pointed to Christ all along, and that Jesus fulfilled the scriptures. Now, I see even more clearly that you really do not care what the scriptures say, for I have shown you that I only quoted the scripture which says they were excluded.

5Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

6That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Gentiles were grafted in later, the scriptures tell us when, it was after Peter’s vision.

Now back to the point, Cornelius was a Justified Man before God before the Gospel was sent to Him Acts 10:22.

You cannot stand Acts 10:22 about Cornelius being a just man who feared God, because it destroys Calvinism. There are people who feared God and were just, and that being before God saved them and gave them His Spirit.

There were not many jews this could be said of ! He was accepted of God when thousands upon thousands jews had been cut off.

God hardened those Jews and cut them off, so that the Gentiles could be grafted in.

Also this proves that a Man must Be Justified before God and one who fears before the Gospel is sent to them as the word of Salvation !

What you say there is strange and twisted thinking.You teach that God saves people, gives them His Spirit, causes them to be born again, makes them just and righteous and God fearing, then, sends someone to them to tell them the gospel, they then immediately believe and understand and have faith. You say that, even though the Bible does not say that anywhere.

Scripture confirms that fact here Acts 13:26

Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent.

God saves those who believe in Him and obey. Salvation is to all who would believe in His name. Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God--

This is how God saves people. These scriptures clearly explain how God saves us.
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? 15 And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
If you cannot understand these scriptures on how God saves us, then you have a seared mind. The scripture asks how. The scripture tells how, and nowhere does it say what Calvinists say.

 

[savedbymercy]

If you realize that Cornelius was a Gentile, then why do you say they were not excluded from the promise?

because He wasn't, He was a Child of Promise Gal 3:29

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Gal 4:28

28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Besides that, many ethnic jews were excluded from the promise !

What you say there is strange and twisted thinking.You teach that God saves people, gives them His Spirit, causes them to be born again, makes them just and righteous and God fearing, then, sends someone to them to tell them the gospel, they then immediately believe and understand and have faith. You say that, even though the Bible does not say that anywhere.

Well, Cornelius was a Just Man and Feared God before the Gospel was sent to Him.. Acts 10:22

22And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

 

[Moriah]

because He wasn't, He was a Child of Promise Gal 3:29

29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Gal 4:28

28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Besides that, many ethnic jews were excluded from the promise !





Well, Cornelius was a Just Man and Feared God before the Gospel was sent to Him.. Acts 10:22

22And they said, Cornelius the centurion, a just man, and one that feareth God, and of good report among all the nation of the Jews, was warned from God by an holy angel to send for thee into his house, and to hear words of thee.

Are you only repeating what I already rebuked with the truth? The Gentiles were NOT included UNTIL God granted them repentance unto life.
Acts 11:18 When they heard this, they had no further objections and praised God, saying, "So then, God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life."
Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.