Do We All have the same Kind Of Free Will as adam Had From God?

My friend. I have no clue how you could make such a jump. Adam and Eve had free will before the fall; not after. The elect 'believe'-that's it. What does sinning or not sinning have to do with being the elect?

They are saved because Jesus Christ died for them as well and His blood covered their sins.

 

Is the election of the saved before the foundation of the world or after they are saved?
Eph 1:4
According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

When did God elect the those who will be saved?

The point is that if Adam was elected before the foundation of the world then he had to sin to become an elect and that means he had no free will to choose not to sin.I am basing the question on standard Calvinistic theology.
My point is that Adam did have free will and so do we. Adam did not have to sin contrary to Calvinistic teachings and we do not have to sin contrary to standard Calvinistic teachings. If Adam was elected before the foundation of the world unto salvation then he first had to sin to fulfill his election and that means he had no choice but to sin.

 

We are born in sin but Adam was not born nor was he created in or with sin.

Explain this to me my friend. If Adam did not have free will from sin, then does it not stand to reason Adam was bound in sin? but how could Adam be bound in sin if sin had not entered the world?

 

It is always sad when a great question gets answered with fiction rather than facts.

Do we have the same free will as Adam? No because we are separated from God spiritually and our eyes have been “opened” with the knowledge of good and evil. Thus we are predisposed to sin.

However lets just read these referenced verses and see what they actually say:

Romans 1:21 teaches that by sinning we act foolishly and this “darkens our heart.”
Thus in our natural fallen condition we have some spiritual ability such that we could discern God and honor Him, but if we choose to act foolishly, we will loose what spiritual ability we had.

Romans 11:10 appears to be a quotation from Psalm 69:23. In the Romans context Paul quotes the Psalms to support his point that God has temporarily hardened non-believing Jews to facilitate the spread of the gospel to the Gentiles. So here we have the loss of spiritual ability by God’s intervention for His redemptive purpose of all mankind. If we look back to the Psalm, again we see the loss of ability due to wickedness.

In Ephesians 4:18 we again see that Gentiles have been darkened in their understanding, and excluded from the life of God because of ignorance, and that their ignorance stems from the hardness of their heart. So yet again we see a loss of spiritual ability due to sinful living rather than from some innate inability. Note they became callous – hardened – then gave themselves over to even more sinful practices.

In partial summary, the first three verses teach that natural men have some spiritual ability but some loose it in part or in whole due to foolish choices, or God’s hardening.

Next lets turn to Ecclesiastes 8:8 which teaches that we not have authority over the length of our life or what will happen to us in the future. So it is a valid point that our will is not free to override the limits God imposes upon us, but this truth in no way supports the fictional claim of an inability to seek God and trust in Christ. All this truth says is if God so limited our will, then our will would be so limited. But demonstrating God has the capacity to do something in no way demonstrates He has chosen to do it.

Matthew 12:45 relates the story of someone driving an unclean spirit out of someone, only to have that evil spirit and even worse other spirits re-enter, thus becoming worse off than before. Here the idea is we cannot keep evil out unless we invite God in. Thus if an evil spirit returns to a believer, he finds the house occupied by God Almighty Himself.

In partial summary, these two verses teach that God has limited our will such that without God’s love and guidance and protection we will end up in worse shape over time. But that truth in no way supports the fiction of total spiritual inability for all of fallen mankind.

Now lets turn to those verses listed to support “body destroyed” whatever that portends.

In 1 Corinthians 5:5 we see that Paul throws a sinner out of the fellowship, which will destroy his way of life, i.e his comfort and security. So actually, this verse teaches that affliction can bring someone to their senses and bring about repentance. This verse actually supports the idea that a sinner with a somewhat hardened heart can still be reached with tough love.

Matthew 10:28 seems totally non-germane to the topic, it teaches that God can do more than just physically kill us, He can destroy both our body and soul in Gehenna. This of course provides motivation to seek the salvation of God rather than His wrath.

Romans 6:6 teaches natural fallen people are “slaves to sin.” But slaves yearn to be free and therefore seek to be set free.

In partial summary none of the verses support the premise of total spiritual inability, they are either non-germane or actually teach sinners have limited spiritual ability.

Next we have some verses that do teach our heart’s inclinations are continually evil. Thus we are predisposed to sin because of our fallen condition. (Gen . 8:21, Jer. 3:17, Matt. 9:4, Heb. 3:12) But this truth in no way supports they fallacy that a fallen person cannot seek God as taught by Matthew 13:1-31.

And finally, it is true fallen mankind is weak, unable to save themselves, and all of our righteousness is as filthy rags, (Gen 4:12, Ps. 37:17, Isa 64:6). But this does not suggest in the slightest we cannot rely upon the righteousness of God for salvation.

In conclusion, mankind is fallen, separated from God and unable to save themselves, but no scriptural support has been provided to validate total spiritual inability. To the contrary, many of the verses referenced actually teach that the fallen have some spiritually ability but are in danger of loosing it by the practice of sin.

 

My friend. We either have the ability or we don't. Which is it?

 

I do not know what you mean by free will from sin. However I am asking this
The point is that if Adam was elected before the foundation of the world then he had to sin to become an elect and that means he had no free will to choose not to sin.I am basing the question on standard Calvinistic theology.
My point is that Adam did have free will and so do we. Adam did not have to sin contrary to Calvinistic teachings and we do not have to sin contrary to standard Calvinistic teachings. If Adam was elected before the foundation of the world unto salvation then he first had to sin to fulfill his election and that means he had no choice but to sin. How can it be said that Adam had free will if he was elected to salvation before the foundation of the world?

 

Speaking of making a false claim. If you are so accurate then prove the statement you just made. Prove Adam and Eve did not have freewill after the fall.
MB

 

Then stop sinning? if you can't, why not?

 

My friend. How could they? the creation fell and they themselves fell, and were bound to sin which is how they passed their sin nature to their children and children's children.

 

another thread about election. I thought we'd never start another one. yaaaay!

 

To be honest. I don't know how election got in this thread.

 

It is the same reason as anyone else. I choose to sin from time to time. My love for the Lord in those times is not what it should be, but it is still a free will choice. Do you believe this scripture.
I cor 10:13
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

 

it's the byproduct of any and all c/a threads. when you start your car, you get exhaust fumes as the byproduct. election is the "exhaust fumes" from any and all c/a threads that get started up.

 

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

Cannot argue with that as I have heard the same teaching. I am not fully on board with it. They claim the enemy is responsible for putting the sinful thoughts in our minds and if we act or ponder on those thoughts, then it is a sin but we could choose not to do it.

I can respect that, but I have always been a firm believer that one can fall into sin or one can willingly dive into sin (choosing to sin).

 

Just because you say so, doesn't make what you say a fact. If it isn't in scripture it isn't from God. I don't follow any thing else but scripture. Not Calvin or Auigustine they were just men with the same abilities as my self.
If you can't prove doctrine with scripture it isn't true.
MB

 

My friend. You are getting way ahead of yourself. Have I accused you of false teaching or made the claim that my philosophy is biblical truth? I think not.

 

please define "fall into sin".

 

What do you mean fall into sin? Do you mean being forced to sin?

 

I bet it boils down to no other choice than......you get the picture.