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Who are the elect?

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Forest

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FYI: "About" Doug Hamp http://www.douglashamp.com/doctrinal-and-theological-positions-of-douglas-hamp/

Doctrinal and Theological Positions of Douglas Hamp



Doctrinal: What I believe regarding:

The Bible

I believe that the Bible is God’s Word in its entirety and is infallible and inerrant. We can trust it in everything that it says.

God

I believe in one God, Creator of all things, infinitely perfect and eternally existing in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.


Christ

I believe that Jesus Christ is true God and true man, having been conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary. He died on the cross a sacrifice for our sins according to the Scriptures. Further, He arose bodily from the dead, ascended into heaven where, at the right hand of the Majesty on High, He is now our High Priest and Advocate.


The Holy Spirit

I believe that the ministry of the Holy Spirit is to glorify the Lord Jesus Christ, and during this age to convict men, regenerate the believing sinner, and indwell, guide, instruct, and empower the believer for godly living and service.


The Trinity

I believe that the triunity of God is a doctrine taught in Scripture. There are many verses that can be cited, but perhaps two of the clearest passages are Isaiah 48:16 “…And now the Lord GOD and His Spirit Have sent Me.” where we see the three persons of the trinity in view. Also Matthew 28:19 where Jesus commanded us to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. There is only one God who exists in three persons.


Election

I believe that God desires all men to be saved (I Tim 2:4) and that Jesus’ work on the cross is the means by which man can be saved (John 3:14-19). God has called all men to repent (Acts 17:30) and that all who believe in Him will have eternal life (John 3:16). God has predestined us to be conformed into the image of His Son (Eph 1:3-6) not to eternal life. Everyone has a free will to choose Jesus as savior or to reject Him. God does not predestine some to heaven and some to hell. Those that enter into hell will do so because they rejected Jesus as their savior (John 3:18, 19).

Perseverance of the Saints

I believe that all who trust in and believe upon Jesus for their salvation are saved. God will not lose any who are in Him.

Heaven and Hell

I believe that Heaven and Hell are real places that a person will go to after this life. It is determined once for man to die and after this the judgment (Hebrew 9:27). All those forgiven by the work of Jesus on the Cross will spend eternity with Him in Heaven. All others will be eternally separated in Hell.

Judgment

I believe that Jesus Christ will judge believers at the Bema seat of Christ (for our good works – but not salvation). All those not covered with the blood of Christ will appear before Him at the Great White Throne after the millennium for judgment and their part in the Lake of Fire.

Truth About Angels (Good And Evil)

I believe that God created all angels good but Satan (Lucifer) took a third of the angels with him when he fell. He and they are now referred to as fallen angels or demons. Angels do the biding of God in this world whereas the demons serve Satan.

Humanity

I believe that God created Adam and Eve in His image, but they sinned when tempted by Satan. In union with Adam, human beings are sinners by nature and by choice, alienated from God, and under His wrath. Only through God’s saving work in Jesus Christ can we be rescued, reconciled and renewed.

Sin

Sin in its most basic sense is rebellion against God. The Bible refers to three types (sin, trespasses and iniquity). We generally refer to all three as “sin”. The Bible declares that we have all sinned and fall short of the glory of God. Jesus died to erase our debt of sin.

Salvation

There is only one name under heaven by which we must be saved: the Lord Jesus Christ. There is salvation in no other except the Lord Jesus. Jesus said: I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except by me. In order to inherit eternal life, we must receive what Jesus did for us on the cross. We can not save ourselves through good works. It is by faith and not of works, Paul tells us, so that no one should boast.

The Church

The Church is comprised of all who are trusting in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. The building is not the “church” but the body of Christ is regardless of denomination. All true believers are “the Church”.

Assurance

I believe that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus and are called according to His purpose. I have passed from death into life when I put my trust in God. Since He is the one who saved me, He is also the one who assures me of eternal life.

Sanctification

I believe that once we put our trust in Jesus, the Holy Spirit then begins to work within us in order to conform us more into the image of Jesus Christ. It is a lifelong process and will only be completed once we are with the Lord. However, hopefully, as I draw near to God in this life, I am looking more like Him a little more every day.

Ordinances

I believe that the Lord’s Supper and Water Baptism are ordinances to be observed by the Church during this present age. They are, however, not to be regarded as means to salvation.

Dispensations

I believe that God has revealed His plan or will to man progressively through time in what is referred to as dispensations. We are currently in the dispensation of the Church.

Resurrection

I believe that Jesus Christ will raise bodies of those in Him when he returns and then we who are alive and remain will be caught up with Him and will receive our new bodies in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye.
John 3:16, The word "world" according to Thayer's difinition means pertaining to believers only. 8) Any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort. a) a) used of believers only, John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19. The all men in Acts 17:30 is all men of the elect. Everyone has a free will to make choices, but the natural man will not, and indeed, cannot choose anything that is of a spiritual nature, such as a spiritual God. 1 Cor 2:14. All scripture must be in harmony with each other without any contradictions if you are understanding the truth.
 

webdog

Active Member
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The author did an excellent job presenting his position biblically. I've maintained this for years here on the BB, that the "elect" in context (when referring to humans) refers to true Israel (not all Israel is Israel). The fact alone there are elect angels show a special subdivision among those who are the Lord's. It is mighty presumptious and haughty, IMO, for a believing gentile (who has been grafted in alongside the elect) to claim this moniker.

Forest...are you PB?
 

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
John 3:16, The word "world" according to Thayer's difinition means pertaining to believers only. 8) Any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort. a) a) used of believers only, John 1:29, 3:16, 3:17, 6:33, 12:47, 1 Cor 4:9, 2 Cor 5:19. The all men in Acts 17:30 is all men of the elect. Everyone has a free will to make choices, but the natural man will not, and indeed, cannot choose anything that is of a spiritual nature, such as a spiritual God. 1 Cor 2:14. All scripture must be in harmony with each other without any contradictions if you are understanding the truth.

Completely illogical and void of context. Whosoever of believers will be saved? You are saying it should read "for God so loved believers that He gave His only Son, that whosoever (of the believers) believes will not perish but have eternal life"? Kind of redundant stating believers who believe will not perish.
 

kyredneck

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....Edit- I want to make it clear I am not endorsing this fellow, as I know nothing about him (denomination etc...), I simply found this video very interesting and thought provoking, even concerning my own understanding of certain verses concering election.

Yeah, I'd say it was the title that sold you on him:

"Why God Did Not Elect Calvinists"

....if he's hammering the Calvinists he couldn't be ALL wrong, now could he?
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
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The elect are the real Jews who are Jews inwardly, circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, born from the Jerusalem that is above who is our mother, who are Israelites indeed, from every nation, tribe, kindred, and tongue. These have always been the true Israel, OT & NT.
 

kyredneck

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
FYI: "About" Doug Hamp....

In the reply to a comment to him concerning the video (scroll down in the OP link), he begins with:

"Dear Friend in Yeshua"

If he's Messianic Jew of course he's going to tout DNA Israel as being the elect.
 
The elect are the real Jews who are Jews inwardly, circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, born from the Jerusalem that is above who is our mother, who are Israelites indeed, from every nation, tribe, kindred, and tongue. These have always been the true Israel, OT & NT.

I was going to say the elect are those that God Saves, but your quote is much better.
 
The elect are the real Jews who are Jews inwardly, circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, born from the Jerusalem that is above who is our mother, who are Israelites indeed, from every nation, tribe, kindred, and tongue. These have always been the true Israel, OT & NT.

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:


Can I get an AMEN???
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Hi Winman, the video was too long for me, but let me address the general idea.

First it was asserted election has nothing to do with salvation. However 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says Gentiles, Thessalonians, were chosen for salvation.

Next we have a word game where the Jews are elected, but the Gentiles are "grafted." Somehow it escaped the speaker that God chose to graft some people in, making them elect for the purpose of salvation.

In summary, I do not think this view can be supported biblically, but he did make some correct points. Israel was elected corporately to carry out part of God's redemption plan, but every individual member of this corporately elected group was put into the group based on God crediting their faith as righteousness, just like Abraham.
 

DaChaser1

New Member
Hi Winman, the video was too long for me, but let me address the general idea.

First it was asserted election has nothing to do with salvation. However 2 Thessalonians 2:13 says Gentiles, Thessalonians, were chosen for salvation.

Next we have a word game where the Jews are elected, but the Gentiles are "grafted." Somehow it escaped the speaker that God chose to graft some people in, making them elect for the purpose of salvation.

In summary, I do not think this view can be supported biblically, but he did make some correct points. Israel was elected corporately to carry out part of God's redemption plan, but every individual member of this corporately elected group was put into the group based on God crediting their faith as righteousness, just like Abraham.

what saves either jew or gentile though?

Our "personal faith" that we choose to exercise in receiving Christ, or His election of us due to JUST His own Will?

Does it go faith , than God elects us based upon our response to Him

OR

does it go God first choses us, election, that results in us placing faith in jesus and get saved?
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Reply again

what saves either jew or gentile though?
Jesus saves everyone. No one comes to the Father except through Jesus, He is the way.

Our "personal faith" that we choose to exercise in receiving Christ, or His election of us due to JUST His own Will?
Just His own will, for it does not depend upon the man that wills, Romans 9:16

Does it go faith , than God elects us based upon our response to Him
Yes and no, we are first called by the gospel, and if we received Christ, God credits our faith as righteousness or not, depending on His sovereign choice, but if He does, then He puts us spiritually "in Christ" and seals us in Him with the Holy Spirit.

OR

does it go God first choses us, election, that results in us placing faith in jesus and get saved?
Yes, He chooses us for salvation by setting aside in Christ,i.e through sanctification by the Spirit, and those He sets apart are those whose faith He credits as righteousness, i.e. through faith in the truth in God's eyes, not ours.
 

Forest

New Member
Completely illogical and void of context. Whosoever of believers will be saved? You are saying it should read "for God so loved believers that He gave His only Son, that whosoever (of the believers) believes will not perish but have eternal life"? Kind of redundant stating believers who believe will not perish.
God choose in his covenant an elect people before the foundation of the world, Eph 1, and gave them to Christ to die for their sins which he did upon the cross without the lose of one, John 6:37-41. As his elect are born into this world as natural beings God will quicken them to a spiritual life and then through the instructions of the Holy Spirit they will believe. Christ secured those that God gave him for eternal life while he was on the cross, those of his elect who were before Christ, and those that would be born after Christ's crucification. Eternal salvation happened for all of God's elect by Christ on the cross. Not one soul has been saved eternally sense the event on the cross. Christ died for "the world of God's elect". The scriptures were written not to those that are not His, but to his elect as instructions of how they should live their lives here as they sojourn in this world. The scriptures tell us how his elect were saved eternally, and does not tell us how we are to be saved eternally. All scriptures must harmonise before you understand the truth.
 
God choose in his covenant an elect people before the foundation of the world, Eph 1, and gave them to Christ to die for their sins which he did upon the cross without the lose of one, John 6:37-41. As his elect are born into this world as natural beings God will quicken them to a spiritual life and then through the instructions of the Holy Spirit they will believe. Christ secured those that God gave him for eternal life while he was on the cross, those of his elect who were before Christ, and those that would be born after Christ's crucification. Eternal salvation happened for all of God's elect by Christ on the cross. Not one soul has been saved eternally sense the event on the cross. Christ died for "the world of God's elect". The scriptures were written not to those that are not His, but to his elect as instructions of how they should live their lives here as they sojourn in this world. The scriptures tell us how his elect were saved eternally, and does not tell us how we are to be saved eternally. All scriptures must harmonise before you understand the truth.


Isaiah 42:1-8

1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.

3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.

4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:

6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.

8I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.



John 15:1-7

1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.



God's Elect is Jesus Christ, the chosen Lamb of God to die for the sin of the world. We who are saved are grafted into His Election.
 

jbh28

Active Member
One of the confusions that happens is we have multiple people being "elected" and for different reasons. As convicted1 mentioned, Jesus Christ is the elect. Isaiah 42:1-8. In Deuteronomy 14:2 we see the Jews being chosen. In 2 Thessalonians 2:13 we see people being chosen for salvation. The disciples were chosen by Jesus. Mary was chosen to the mother of Jesus on earth.

The problem with the video is that the guy took one reason and assumed it always means that. He then forced the meaning of all other passages to mean the same.
 
One of the confusions that happens is we have multiple people being "elected" and for different reasons. As convicted1 mentioned, Jesus Christ is the elect. Isaiah 42:1-8. In Deuteronomy 14:2 we see the Jews being chosen. In 2 Thessalonians 2:13 we see people being chosen for salvation. The disciples were chosen by Jesus. Mary was chosen to the mother of Jesus on earth.

The problem with the video is that the guy took one reason and assumed it always means that. He then forced the meaning of all other passages to mean the same.

I see Ephesians 1 as God's chosen being the OT Prophets, and the Disciples, etc. They were on an entirely different playing field than we were. God spoke to these verbally, whereas we hear Him speak through His written Word.

They were given power to raise the dead, heal the sick, give sight to the blind, make the lame to walk, the deaf to hear, etc. We don't have that power, but we do have the power of prayer.
 

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Yes, the who are elect needs first to address elected for what purpose of God? So the real topic is who are the elect for salvation! Not elect to be the Messiah, only Christ fills that bill, not elect to be a prophet of God, or a bad purpose like Judas, but for the purpose of salvation. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 tells us those individuals chosen for that purpose were chosen from the beginning not before the foundation of the world, and they were chosen by God in the Person of the Holy Spirit setting those individuals apart in Christ and those who were chosen were chosen based on God crediting their faith as righteousness.

Folks that throw in elections for other purposes are just throwing up smoke to cloud the issue.
 

psalms109:31

Active Member
Exodus 19:
5 Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, 6 you[Or possession, for the whole earth is mine. You] will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.’ These are the words you are to speak to the Israelites.”

Ephesians 1:
11 In him we were also chosen,[Or were made heirs] having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, 12 in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory.

Revelation 7:
4 Then I heard the number of those who were sealed: 144,000 from all the tribes of Israel.

Matthew 15:24
He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

John 1:
11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.

Matthew 10:33
But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

Luke 12:9
But whoever disowns me before others will be disowned before the angels of God.

Psalm 69:28
May they be blotted out of the book of life and not be listed with the righteous.

Revelation 3:5
The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels.

Romans 11:
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.

Ephesians 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

Revelation 7:
9 After this I looked, and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands. 10 And they cried out in a loud voice:

“Salvation belongs to our God,
who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb.”

Romans 11:
23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Hebrews 5:
8 Son though he was, he learned obedience from what he suffered 9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him 10 and was designated by God to be high priest in the order of Melchizedek
 
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