The soul is NOT the Body - Mt. 10:28

[DHK]

DHK,


Nowhere at no time have I ever said what you said I said.

You do not show to have sound doctrine. There is no logic in the slander you try to put on me when I read scripture.

Then at least try and understand the verse--the problem at Corinth.
1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

The fact that Paul states this means that there were some in Corinth that were calling Jesus accursed. Will you agree to that?
But it wasn't by the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit would never call Christ accursed. Paul is writing to believers, and yet somehow some of these "believers" were calling Christ accursed. How is this possible? Let's look at context:

1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
--The context is spiritual gifts. He doesn't want them to be ignorant of spiritual gifts. In fact all three chapters. 12-14 are teaching about spiritual gifts.

1 Corinthians 12:2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
--He reminds them of their pagan past. BTW, in their pagan past they spoke in tongues ecstatically, and sometimes by the power of demonic spirits. Paul was warning them not to revert back to their pagan past. In the past they worshiped idols. Behind every idol is a demon, a spirit. They used to worship them.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
--Again the context is spiritual gifts.
One of the most abused spiritual gifts, and most rebuked spiritual gifts was that of speaking in tongues. I believe this is what Paul is referring to here. "In the Holy Spirit" they would call Jesus Lord, no matter what language or tongue was being spoken. But sometimes, being influenced by a demon, they would speak another language and call Jesus accursed. Someone else would recognize the language. They would know that person is not speaking of God. The Holy Spirit does not call Christ accursed. It is another spirit, a demonic spirit that is doing this.

Just like in many circles today, the Corinthians wanted "the more showy gifts." They wanted the gifts that made them look more spiritual. And the gift of tongues did just that. Often that "gift" wasn't a gift. It was, as it is today, either demonic, or ecstatic. So it was then. The real gift had a purpose. But some of them were imitators and had no business trying to imitate a spiritual gift. They were calling Christ accursed and not knowing it.

 

[Moriah]

Then at least try and understand the verse--the problem at Corinth.
1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

The fact that Paul states this means that there were some in Corinth that were calling Jesus accursed. Will you agree to that?
But it wasn't by the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit would never call Christ accursed. Paul is writing to believers, and yet somehow some of these "believers" were calling Christ accursed. How is this possible? Let's look at context:

1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
--The context is spiritual gifts. He doesn't want them to be ignorant of spiritual gifts. In fact all three chapters. 12-14 are teaching about spiritual gifts.

1 Corinthians 12:2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
--He reminds them of their pagan past. BTW, in their pagan past they spoke in tongues ecstatically, and sometimes by the power of demonic spirits. Paul was warning them not to revert back to their pagan past. In the past they worshiped idols. Behind every idol is a demon, a spirit. They used to worship them.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
--Again the context is spiritual gifts.
One of the most abused spiritual gifts, and most rebuked spiritual gifts was that of speaking in tongues. I believe this is what Paul is referring to here. "In the Holy Spirit" they would call Jesus Lord, no matter what language or tongue was being spoken. But sometimes, being influenced by a demon, they would speak another language and call Jesus accursed. Someone else would recognize the language. They would know that person is not speaking of God. The Holy Spirit does not call Christ accursed. It is another spirit, a demonic spirit that is doing this.

Just like in many circles today, the Corinthians wanted "the more showy gifts." They wanted the gifts that made them look more spiritual. And the gift of tongues did just that. Often that "gift" wasn't a gift. It was, as it is today, either demonic, or ecstatic. So it was then. The real gift had a purpose. But some of them were imitators and had no business trying to imitate a spiritual gift. They were calling Christ accursed and not knowing it.

If someone was saying Jesus is accursed, then they are not Christians.

 

[DHK]

If someone was saying Jesus is accursed, then they are not Christians.

Or they were influenced by demons unwittingly.
Paul was writing to Christians.

The entire exercise of studying this passage is to demonstrate that we communicate with our spirits which are connected with other spirits--whether demonic or the Holy Spirit. The spirit does communicate.

 

[Moriah]

Or they were influenced by demons unwittingly.
Paul was writing to Christians.

Paul was talking to Christians about false Christians.

The entire exercise of studying this passage is to demonstrate that we communicate with our spirits which are connected with other spirits--whether demonic or the Holy Spirit. The spirit does communicate.

I do not agree with you. You say we can be communicating with demons without knowing it. What kind of Christian belief is that? The passage is about those who call themselves Christian but do not behave like Christians.

 

[DHK]

I do not agree with you. You say we can be communicating with demons without knowing it. What kind of Christian belief is that? The passage is about those who call themselves Christian but do not behave like Christians.

Even so, take the second half of the verse:

no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

The human spirit still communicates via the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit doesn't work in a vacuum. He works in conjunction with our spirit. It is our spirit that is able to communicate with God. Now that we are saved we are able to talk to God through His Spirit. The unsaved man is unable to do that.

 

[Moriah]

Even so, take the second half of the verse:

You say, “Even so.” I do not think so. Is that all you have to say about what I said?

The human spirit still communicates via the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit doesn't work in a vacuum.

Who said the Holy Spirit works in a vacuum? What does that mean? Why are you talking that way? You still have not explained what the human spirit is.

He works in conjunction with our spirit. It is our spirit that is able to communicate with God.

Why are you saying this to me? Are you siding with Biblicist in that the spirit of a man does not think, speak, or have emotions? If you believe like Biblicist, then explain how our spirit communicates with the Holy Spirit without thinking, and feeling, etc.

Now that we are saved we are able to talk to God through His Spirit. The unsaved man is unable to do that.

How do you think that our spirit talks to God if our spirit cannot talk, think, or feel?

 

[DHK]

Why are you saying this to me? Are you siding with Biblicist in that the spirit of a man does not think, speak, or have emotions? If you believe like Biblicist, then explain how our spirit communicates with the Holy Spirit without thinking, and feeling, etc.

How do you think that our spirit talks to God if our spirit cannot talk, think, or feel?

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

The point is that our spirit can commune.
1. It can commune with an evil spirit and call Christ accursed.
2. It can commune by the Holy Spirit and call Christ Lord.
Isn't that what this verse says?

What does this part of the verse mean?

No man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
How does a person speak through the Holy Spirit unless he himself has a spirit? It is the spiritual part of the man that communes with God. What other aspect of man would commune with God?

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1 Corinthians 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

God is in your body and in your spirit.
Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is in you.
--Can you grasp these truths?

 

[Moriah]

The point is that our spirit can commune.
1. It can commune with an evil spirit and call Christ accursed.
2. It can commune by the Holy Spirit and call Christ Lord.
Isn't that what this verse says?

What does this part of the verse mean?

You said Christians can commune with demons and not know it.

You said those passages were about Christians. I say they were about those who called themselves Christians but were not Christian.

Now, are you saying you agree with Biblicist when he says our spirits cannot think, speak, and have emotions?

 

[DHK]

You said Christians can commune with demons and not know it.

Let's clarify.
I do not believe that a Christian can be demon possessed.
I do believe that a Christian can be demon "oppressed."
I do believe that Christians can be influenced by demons.
I didn't say anything about Christians communing with demons. Don't put words into my mouth.

You said those passages were about Christians. I say they were about those who called themselves Christians but were not Christian.

Yes, and I believe you are wrong. Context:

1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
--The brethren are always the saved.

Now, are you saying you agree with Biblicist when he says our spirits cannot think, speak, and have emotions?

Did I say that?

 

[Moriah]

Or they were influenced by demons unwittingly.
Paul was writing to Christians.

The entire exercise of studying this passage is to demonstrate that we communicate with our spirits which are connected with other spirits--whether demonic or the Holy Spirit. The spirit does communicate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moriah
You said Christians can commune with demons and not know it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHK
Let's clarify.
I do not believe that a Christian can be demon possessed.
I do believe that a Christian can be demon "oppressed."
I do believe that Christians can be influenced by demons.
I didn't say anything about Christians communing with demons. Don't put words into my mouth.



Yes, DHK, you DID say Christians can commune with demons and not know it.

 

[DHK]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moriah
You said Christians can commune with demons and not know it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DHK
Let's clarify.
I do not believe that a Christian can be demon possessed.
I do believe that a Christian can be demon "oppressed."
I do believe that Christians can be influenced by demons.
I didn't say anything about Christians communing with demons. Don't put words into my mouth.



Yes, DHK, you DID say Christians can commune with demons and not know it.

Don't accuse me falsely. That is sin. Something you seem to do everyday, if just on this board.

This is what I said:

Or they were influenced by demons unwittingly.

Being influenced and communing are two different things.
So your false accusations, your wilful sins against me and against God is not very Godly is it?

 

[Moriah]

Don't accuse me falsely. That is sin. Something you seem to do everyday, if just on this board.

This is what I said:

Being influenced and communing are two different things.
So your false accusations, your wilful sins against me and against God is not very Godly is it?

You said we could commune with demons and not know it.

 

[Moriah]

You said what I said you said.

Then at least try and understand the verse--the problem at Corinth.
1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

The fact that Paul states this means that there were some in Corinth that were calling Jesus accursed. Will you agree to that?
But it wasn't by the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit would never call Christ accursed. Paul is writing to believers, and yet somehow some of these "believers" were calling Christ accursed. How is this possible? Let's look at context:

1 Corinthians 12:1 Now concerning spiritual gifts, brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
--The context is spiritual gifts. He doesn't want them to be ignorant of spiritual gifts. In fact all three chapters. 12-14 are teaching about spiritual gifts.

1 Corinthians 12:2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
--He reminds them of their pagan past. BTW, in their pagan past they spoke in tongues ecstatically, and sometimes by the power of demonic spirits. Paul was warning them not to revert back to their pagan past. In the past they worshiped idols. Behind every idol is a demon, a spirit. They used to worship them.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
--Again the context is spiritual gifts.
One of the most abused spiritual gifts, and most rebuked spiritual gifts was that of speaking in tongues. I believe this is what Paul is referring to here. "In the Holy Spirit" they would call Jesus Lord, no matter what language or tongue was being spoken. But sometimes, being influenced by a demon, they would speak another language and call Jesus accursed. Someone else would recognize the language. They would know that person is not speaking of God. The Holy Spirit does not call Christ accursed. It is another spirit, a demonic spirit that is doing this.

Just like in many circles today, the Corinthians wanted "the more showy gifts." They wanted the gifts that made them look more spiritual. And the gift of tongues did just that. Often that "gift" wasn't a gift. It was, as it is today, either demonic, or ecstatic. So it was then. The real gift had a purpose. But some of them were imitators and had no business trying to imitate a spiritual gift. They were calling Christ accursed and not knowing it.

 

[Moriah]

You said what I said you said.

1 Corinthians 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

The point is that our spirit can commune.
1. It can commune with an evil spirit and call Christ accursed.
2. It can commune by the Holy Spirit and call Christ Lord.
Isn't that what this verse says?

What does this part of the verse mean?

No man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
How does a person speak through the Holy Spirit unless he himself has a spirit? It is the spiritual part of the man that communes with God. What other aspect of man would commune with God?

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1 Corinthians 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

God is in your body and in your spirit.
Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.
The Holy Spirit is in you.
--Can you grasp these truths?

 

[DHK]

You said what I said you said.

Our spirit can commune.
Let be more specific.
Our spirit (our being the spirit of mankind) can commune.
Man's spirit can commune with demons.
And man's spirit (if saved) can commune with the Holy Spirit.

Now I have further clarified myself both here and elsewhere.
There is no need to take my words and make them mean something that I never said.

 

[Moriah]

Our spirit can commune.
Let be more specific.
Our spirit (our being the spirit of mankind) can commune.
Man's spirit can commune with demons.
And man's spirit (if saved) can commune with the Holy Spirit.

Now I have further clarified myself both here and elsewhere.
There is no need to take my words and make them mean something that I never said.

You still cannot confess. You still cannot apologize. You continue to lie.

Read what you wrote, and see how easy you continue in this type of spirit.


Quotes from DHK to Moriah:

The point is that our spirit can commune.
1. It can commune with an evil spirit and call Christ accursed.

Don't accuse me falsely. That is sin. Something you seem to do everyday, if just on this board.

Being influenced and communing are two different things.
So your false accusations, your wilful sins against me and against God is not very Godly is it?

 

[The Biblicist]

I am reading carefully.

You ask me to explain and so I do and then instead of accepting my explanation you start refuting every point!

Are you trying to understand my explanation or are you trying to refute my explanation????? I think it is the latter and so you are just lying because you really don't want to understand what I am saying you simply want to debate what I am saying.

There is no point in answering your questions because you are not interested in the answers, just interested in debating the answers.

What is the spirit expressing to the mind and emotions and will? If the spirit does not think, have emotions, or have a will, then what and why is it expressing?

The human spirit provides access to the spiritual world. In a child of God the human spirit is the medium through which the Spirit of God reveals His thoughts and will to our soul. It is through our spirit that the HOly Spirit conveys direct knowledge to our soul. It is what the scriptures refer to many times as being "pressed in spirit" to say or do something. The human spirit is the vehicle for the spirit world to impact our soul just as the body is the vehicle for the soul to make our impact upon the outer world.

BTW, I did not say the soul always expressed itself through our body! I simply said it does and it is the ONLY vehicle of expression for the soul to impact the external world.

Now, you understand perfectly what I have said and what I have been saying. It is not a matter of misunderstanding it is simply a matter of rejection. So don't ask me any more questions.

 

[Moriah]

You ask me to explain and so I do and then instead of accepting my explanation you start refuting every point!

That is called debating. If you do not say something I agree with, then I will refute it.

Are you trying to understand my explanation or are you trying to refute my explanation????? I think it is the latter and so you are just lying because you really don't want to understand what I am saying you simply want to debate what I am saying.

Stop with the personal attacks and false accusations.

There is no point in answering your questions because you are not interested in the answers, just interested in debating the answers.

You are the one who went against me first. Yet you turn around and accuse me of what you do. That is called a hypocrite. I posted a thread about the Spirit and Soul, you went against me there, and then you made this thread about the same thing! What are you doing in a debate group if you do not expect to be debated?

The human spirit provides access to the spiritual world. In a child of God the human spirit is the medium through which the Spirit of God reveals His thoughts and will to our soul. It is through our spirit that the HOly Spirit conveys direct knowledge to our soul. It is what the scriptures refer to many times as being "pressed in spirit" to say or do something. The human spirit is the vehicle for the spirit world to impact our soul just as the body is the vehicle for the soul to make our impact upon the outer world.

You keep saying that about the spirit of man, but it does not make sense, since you say the spirit of man has no mind, thoughts, understanding, emotions, speech… You cannot adequately explain how the spirit of man communicates. I just do not accept your reasoning.

BTW, I did not say the soul always expressed itself through our body! I simply said it does and it is the ONLY vehicle of expression for the soul to impact the external world.

I will bring up my beliefs and clarify them as I can.

Now, you understand perfectly what I have said and what I have been saying. It is not a matter of misunderstanding it is simply a matter of rejection. So don't ask me any more questions.

I understand that you cannot explain something that you believe. You believe that when a person dies they go in their spirit to heaven, is that not correct? However, you also say that a man’s soul goes to heaven too, is that not what you believe? So, is there any scripture that you can show me that says a man’s soul went to heaven or Hell? Why did Stephen tell Jesus to receive his spirit and not his soul? Why did Jesus go to prison where the spirits of those who disobeyed long ago were, and not where the souls were of those who disobeyed long ago?
I believe the spirits of people do think and reason, and that we live on in either heaven or Hell.

 

[DHK]

You still cannot confess. You still cannot apologize. You continue to lie.

The spirit can commune; if it can't you have no prayer life. If that is true then perhaps you are not saved. What have I to apologize for? Perhaps you should apologize for calling me a liar. This is sin, which you claim you do not do.

Read what you wrote, and see how easy you continue in this type of spirit.

I know what I have wrote.

Quotes from DHK to Moriah:

The point is that our spirit can commune.
1. It can commune with an evil spirit and call Christ accursed.

That is what was happening in the Corinthian Church. Perhaps a better word would be influenced. Christians cannot be demon-possessed. But it was obvious that believers were being so influenced by evil spirits that they were calling Jesus accursed.

Don't accuse me falsely. That is sin. Something you seem to do everyday, if just on this board.

If you don't quote me (put my words in quotes) by using the quote function, then you end up saying what I didn't say. You falsely accuse me. Then you turn around and say I falsely accused you. That's calling the kettle black. It also is called sin; something you happen to practice every day, or so it seems.

Being influenced and communing are two different things.

And I agree with that; don't you?

So your false accusations, your wilful sins against me and against God is not very Godly is it?

Well, is it?

 

[Moriah]

The spirit can commune;

You called me a liar when I said you said that we could commune with demons unknowingly, and now you are carrying on as if you did nothing wrong by denying it and accusing me of lying. Whom do you think you are fooling with all this jumbled talk?

if it can't you have no prayer life. If that is true then perhaps you are not saved.

You think that Christians commune with demons unknowingly, and you are supposed to make me question my salvation? lol

What have I to apologize for? Perhaps you should apologize for calling me a liar. This is sin, which you claim you do not do.

You are a liar when you said I was lying.

I know what I have wrote.

God knows what you are doing.

If you don't quote me (put my words in quotes) by using the quote function, then you end up saying what I didn't say. You falsely accuse me. Then you turn around and say I falsely accused you. That's calling the kettle black. It also is called sin; something you happen to practice every day, or so it seems.

I did quote you with the quote function, and you said exactly what I said you did. Do you think no one here has sense enough to see that you are not honest?
You deny what is plainly in sight for all to see, just imagine what you put people through who talk to you in person, they have no recording to prove you said what you did. God knows.