TV Star Turned Baptist Minister

[revmwc]

No they are not. These are the types of statements that are not helpful in a discussion. They have no intent in calling God anything.

Gods word says women shall not teach a man nor usurp authority over him, God's word says that, yet when we read scripture that doesn't fit the way someone wants it too we are called bigot's but in fact scripture is clear and who wrote Scripture? God the Holy Spirit through inspiration had Paul put that principle in place. So then who do you see as the bigot?

I see women being able to teach, Sunday School classes for women and chuildren as well or better than a man. I see women being the music director be cause she isn't teaching spiritual things, I see women going out on visitation, translating scripture, evrything except as a teacher of men which has to include being a Senior Pastor of a church over the spiritual teaching of men, and yet you say that is being a bigot, because scripture says it.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

I find it interesting that people try to deflect from what the Bible really means by tossing out the tired charge of liberalism and following culture at those who believe in women pastors and women's ordination. I have already shown that the very conservative holiness groups ordained women from the beginning, and the very conservative, even fundamentalist, Pentecostal and holiness churches have done so.

As to the charge of following culture, I submit that's what those of you who deny women the pastoral role are doing. You are following a patriarchal culture that viewed women not only as second class citizens but second class Christians also.

This article clearly states the actual NT position:

http://www.cbeinternational.org/?q=content/ordination-women

It accurately and successfully debunks patriarchal views of scripture pertaining to the subject.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

I actually disagree with your view on this, but that was a good reply.

Thank you.

 

[revmwc]

I find it interesting that people try to deflect from what the Bible really means by tossing out the tired charge of liberalism and following culture at those who believe in women pastors and women's ordination. I have already shown that the very conservative holiness groups ordained women from the beginning, and the very conservative, even fundamentalist, Pentecostal and holiness churches have done so.

As to the charge of following culture, I submit that's what those of you who deny women the pastoral role are doing. You are following a patriarchal culture that viewed women not only as second class citizens but second class Christians also.

This article clearly states the actual NT position:

http://www.cbeinternational.org/?q=content/ordination-women

It accurately and successfully debunks patriarchal views of scripture pertaining to the subject.

Again scripture is very clear a woman is not to teach men. She can teach women, children, even teenagers but not men. She can lead the song service, visit, translate scripture, help in the ministry to the homeless or a prison ministry for women, she is just not to get out of God's order as scripture says she is not to teach nor usurp the authority of a man, the Holy Spirits word from scripture. That we cannot get around , matter how much you want to debunk it as culture.

One of those early groups had two women leave their husbands calling themselves prophetesses and destroyed the churches with false doctrine. Do we really want to look back at history, or look to what God's word said as inspired by the Holy Spirit?

 

[mandym]

Gods word says women shall not teach a man nor usurp authority over him, God's word says that, yet when we read scripture that doesn't fit the way someone wants it too we are called bigot's but in fact scripture is clear and who wrote Scripture? God the Holy Spirit through inspiration had Paul put that principle in place. So then who do you see as the bigot?

I am not going to question their motive. I do not assume they know the truth but simply refuse to accept it. I do not see their intent to call God anything. And I thing the " in effect" argument is a good one. Such dialogue only works to inflame others and does not promote a reasonable conversation.

I made my comment as an attempt to get to the root of the differences. But I am not going to say they are calling God a bigot.

 

[annsni]

This article clearly states the actual NT position:

http://www.cbeinternational.org/?q=content/ordination-women

First of all, that website does not have the corner on the "actual NT position" on women in leadership. Second of all, the link you have is just a link to a list of articles - not one article. Third of all, thanks to a blast from the past. Gretchen Hull was an old family friend. It was fun to see her name again! :wavey:

 

[Alive in Christ]

Liberalism??? :laugh:

Why...I woudnt join one of those dens or apostacy if they offered to pay me.

No...this evangelical heeds the scriptures, and only the scriptures.

BUT...unlike some on here who wont stray from their personally selected "pet" scriptures, I choose to heed ALL of the scriptures.

 

[Arbo]

You are following a patriarchal culture that viewed women not only as second class citizens but second class Christians.

Nope. Different roles, but equal.

Why the bitterness against those who believe female pastors are wrong, based on what's in Scripture? Why grouse about others with differing convictions?

 

[mandym]

Nope. Different roles, but equal.

Why the bitterness against those who believe female pastors are wrong, based on what's in Scripture? Why grouse about others with differing convictions?

It appears to be a serious threat to him.

 

[Arbo]

It amazes me how often those with liberal leanings accuse others of imposing their values on them, while doing the same thing themselves.

 

[annsni]

Nope. Different roles, but equal.

:applause:

Absolutely!! We are absolutely equals but just have different roles in the church. Women are not relegated to the kitchen and nursery but hold great leadership roles in my church. I held a training just last week for our projection software program and I need to get started in getting myself trained for the next upgrade since I'm the one who is the "leader" in this and am expert in it for all three campuses. We also have our small groups coordinator being a woman, half of our counseling staff are women - heck, half our entire staff are women!! And that is no small staff at I think 45 people now!

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Nope. Different roles, but equal.

Why the bitterness against those who believe female pastors are wrong, based on what's in Scripture? Why grouse about others with differing convictions?

Part of it is because I've seen women mistreated and humiliated who felt they were called to pastoral ministry.

Here is a good article by Greg Boyd:

http://www.gregboyd.org/essays/essays-church/women-in-ministry/

 

[Michael Wrenn]

It appears to be a serious threat to him.

What on earth are you talking about?

I'd say it's the good ol' boys club that feels threatened.

 

[Arbo]

Part of it is because I've seen women mistreated and humiliated who felt they were called to pastoral ministry.

A calling based on feelings that is contrary to Scripture is not a true calling.

Mistreated and humiliated because they were told they were biblically unqualified, presumably; which is why you seek to change/reinterpret/add to Scripture in order to make it conform to your desire.

 

[annsni]

A calling based on feelings that is contrary to Scripture is not a true calling.

Mistreated and humiliated because they were told they were biblically unqualified, presumably; which is why you seek to change/reinterpret/add to Scripture in order to make it conform to your desire.

It could be that it was mishandled as well. Unfortunately, there are those who do not have the gift of grace in how to handle what they don't agree with and so instead of lovingly guiding, they instead just unlovingly shove. There are SO many ways women who feel this sort of pull to minister can fulfill the "call" while still walking within Biblical guidelines. Goodness knows that counseling is such a HUGE need in churches and there are just so many women who need good counselors. Women's ministry is more than a little coffee klatch one day a week. In our church, the women's ministry is almost a church in itself!!

 

[Arbo]

It could be that it was mishandled as well. Unfortunately, there are those who do not have the gift of grace in how to handle what they don't agree with and so instead of lovingly guiding, they instead just unlovingly shove. There are SO many ways women who feel this sort of pull to minister can fulfill the "call" while still walking within Biblical guidelines. Goodness knows that counseling is such a HUGE need in churches and there are just so many women who need good counselors. Women's ministry is more than a little coffee klatch one day a week. In our church, the women's ministry is almost a church in itself!!

Agree that there are plenty of room for women in a local church's ministry. Some things just are neither practical nor proper for male involvement (ie women's counseling, women-only fellowship, etc.) A church with every job being done by men would ne a mess.

 

[annsni]

Agree that there are plenty of room for women in a local church's ministry. Some things just are neither practical nor proper for male involvement (ie women's counseling, women-only fellowship, etc.) A church with every job being done by men would ne a mess.

LOL - As is evident on the weekend of the ladies' retreat. :laugh:

 

[Michael Wrenn]

A calling based on feelings that is contrary to Scripture is not a true calling.

Mistreated and humiliated because they were told they were biblically unqualified, presumably; which is why you seek to change/reinterpret/add to Scripture in order to make it conform to your desire.

Did I hear God saying something? Oh, wait -- that was just you.

 

[DaChaser1]

It could be that it was mishandled as well. Unfortunately, there are those who do not have the gift of grace in how to handle what they don't agree with and so instead of lovingly guiding, they instead just unlovingly shove. There are SO many ways women who feel this sort of pull to minister can fulfill the "call" while still walking within Biblical guidelines. Goodness knows that counseling is such a HUGE need in churches and there are just so many women who need good counselors. Women's ministry is more than a little coffee klatch one day a week. In our church, the women's ministry is almost a church in itself!!

This whole OP seems to be similiar to those who MISUSE the scriptures saying Women must submit their husbands to the point of abuse!


Same fashion, thiose who see christians misusing the Bible to mistreat women as regards to making them "less than" in church circles have a valid point, but still have to deal witht the fact that the scriptures give us NO Examples of women appointed to either a pastor/Elder position!

 

[convicted1]

Waiting to see Donald Trump come in and tell her,"You're fired!" :laugh: