Ye must be born again 2

[steaver]

Believing is a command in scripture, something commanded to do. What you are saying is not scriptural. Acts 16:31 Does Paul say anything about asking Jesus a question ?

Jesus says so in the gospel of John as I have posted.

 

[DHK]

Why ask me that ? Did I say I saved myself ? If anything you have insinuated that. You claim when you believed you became Born Again. You did something no other man born of the flesh can do. No other man of the flesh pleased God except steaver, congats on that !

You sure have a problem with this don't you?

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

What is so hard about the above verse to understand and believe?

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

you sure have a problem with this don't you?

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

I dealt with that already. However Believing is something man is commanded to do Acts 16:31

31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.


If you get saved because you kept a commandment, that is works, and salvation by commandment keeping !

Also, if you were not Born of the Spirit before you believed, then you did something that scripture says you cannot do, and that is please God in the flesh Rom 8:7-8

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Now, Does believing on Christ please God ?

 

[steaver]

dhk



I dealt with that already. However Believing is something man is commanded to do Acts 16:31

31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.


If you get saved because you kept a commandment, that is works, and salvation by commandment keeping !

Also, if you were not Born of the Spirit before you believed, then you did something that scripture says you cannot do, and that is please God in the flesh Rom 8:7-8

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Now, Does believing on Christ please God ?

Can you direct me to the post where you dealt with it, not saying you didn't, I just haven't seen your answer to this scripture where Paul clearly states believing is opposite of works.

And yes, believing on CHrist sure does please God. That is not our issue with your expositioning.

 

[savedbymercy]

steaver

Can you direct me to the post where you dealt with it,

Maybe after you look for it ! That takes a lot of time.

I just haven't seen your answer to this scripture where Paul clearly states believing is opposite of works.

Paul did not say believing was not a work, because it is, its something man does with the mind or heart. The definition of a work is this, it is the greek word ergon:


business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind[/B]

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

Now is Believing something done by man ?

 

[DHK]

dhk



I dealt with that already. However Believing is something man is commanded to do Acts 16:31

31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.


If you get saved because you kept a commandment, that is works, and salvation by commandment keeping !

Also, if you were not Born of the Spirit before you believed, then you did something that scripture says you cannot do, and that is please God in the flesh Rom 8:7-8

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Now, Does believing on Christ please God ?

You sure have a problem with this don't you?

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

What is so hard about the above verse to understand and believe?

You have completely ignored this verse. Why? Because it goes directly against what you teach. Where is your answer? Deal with the verse, not with others.

 

[steaver]

Paul did not say believing was not a work, because it is, its something man does with the mind or heart. The definition of a work is this, it is the greek word ergon:


business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind[/B]

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

Now is Believing something done by man ?

Yes, believing is something done by man! That is not the problem, the problem lies in your misunderstanding or misapplication of scripture.

Paul makes it clear that works and believing are opposites. You must deal with the facts.

 

[savedbymercy]

steaver

Yes, believing is something done by man!

Then its defined as a work !

 

[steaver]

Paul did not say believing was not a work, because it is,

Do you realize how silly this statement is?

It is not even remotely arguable that Paul did not declare works and believing total opposites. Yet you declare Paul, God's Word, does not say any such thing! Why do you declare this? ....because SBM says so. Why don't you adjust your beliefs to God's Word rather than denying God's very word on the matter?

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk asked

You sure have a problem with this don't you?

No, you do. You are the one stating you are saved because of your work, believing is a work , something man does !

 

[steaver]

Then its defined as a work !

According to SBM it is. Why should I take your word over Paul's??? Paul is inspired by God correct?

 

[savedbymercy]

According to SBM it is. Why should I take your word over Paul's??? Paul is inspired by God correct?

Yes and more importantly according to the inspired word paul used for work ergon !

 

[steaver]

Yes and more importantly according to the inspired word paul used for work ergon !

If you are so opposed to God's Word on this matter of belief which Paul clearly states is the opposite of works, then I don't see how you expect others to take seriously any of your other postings which you try to teach others your pov on doctrines.

 

[savedbymercy]

If you are so opposed to God's Word on this matter of belief which Paul clearly states is the opposite of works, then I don't see how you expect others to take seriously any of your other postings which you try to teach others your pov on doctrines.

You the one that opposes God's word. You state that as a natural man in the flesh, unregenerated you pleased God by believing in Christ for salvation, which Paul writes under inspiriation that Rom 8:7-8

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Then after you defy that, you are claiming that you are saved by your work, by your pleasing God, when scripture plainly says Eph 2:8-9

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

You do not believe anything God word says !

 

[steaver]

You the one that opposes God's word. You state that as a natural man in the flesh, unregenerated you pleased God by believing in Christ for salvation, which Paul writes under inspiriation that Rom 8:7-8

7Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Then after you defy that, you are claiming that you are saved by your work, by your pleasing God, when scripture plainly says Eph 2:8-9

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

You do not believe anything God word says !

Well, I believe Jesus is Lord. Is that something God's Word says? I believe God is a Trinity, Father, Son and Holy Spirit, does God's Word say this?

I believe you are resorting to saying silly statements in your frustration. Remember Paul's words, written under inspiration of course (I guess we need to remind each other of this) .....

"And though I have [the gift of] prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing." (1Cr13:2)

"And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these [is] charity." (1Cr13:13)

How would you rate yourself brother? Do you have the greatest gift of all?

 

[savedbymercy]

steaver

Well, I believe Jesus is Lord.

Maybe you do, however, you have serious issues with being saved by your works and being able to please God while in the flesh, those issues are anti scriptural !

 

[DHK]

You sure have a problem with this don't you?

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

What is so hard about the above verse to understand and believe?

You have completely ignored this verse. Why? Because it goes directly against what you teach. Where is your answer? Deal with the verse, not with others.

If simply amazes me, SBM, how you won't touch this verse. You avoid it like the plague. You know it will destroy every belief you have. You have not given one attempt to explain or exegete this verse. Are you so completely ignorant of this verse that you have to deny and avoid it?

 

[savedbymercy]

dhk

If simply amazes me, SBM, how you won't touch this verse.

Already did, and besides that verse does not say believing is not a work, because it is a work. The word work is the greek word ergon and means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

Now is Believing an act ? Yes, is it a deed ? Yes, is it a thing done ? Yes. Is it something accomplished by the mind ? Yes !

The Mind is the reasoning of the heart Mk 2:6

But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,

So Believing is a work ! Too bad you cannot tear that word ergon out of the bible . it is what it is ! Paul knew it also !

 

[DHK]

dhk



Already did, and besides that verse does not say believing is not a work, because it is a work. The word work is the greek word ergon and means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied

a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

Now is Believing an act ? Yes, is it a deed ? Yes, is it a thing done ? Yes. Is it something accomplished by the mind ? Yes !

The Mind is the reasoning of the heart Mk 2:6

But there was certain of the scribes sitting there, and reasoning in their hearts,

So Believing is a work ! Too bad you cannot tear that word ergon out of the bible . it is what it is ! Paul knew it also !

Here is the verse again:

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Try to explain the verse itself which says "to him that works not but believes is justified," indicating that belief is not a work.

 

[savedbymercy]

Here is the verse again:

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Try to explain the verse itself which says "to him that works not but believes is justified," indicating that belief is not a work.

I already gave my view once, no need again, you rejected it then. Feel free to search for it though.

Nothing is going to change, Believing is a Work according to scripture !