NO!
calvinists hold that the elect will place faith in jesus to be saved, and though faith itself is a gift from god, STILL required by god to place faith in Christ in order to have God apply His grace towards their behalf!
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Christ's Blood Sanctifies !
- Thread starter savedbymercy
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NO!
calvinists hold that the elect will place faith in jesus to be saved, and though faith itself is a gift from god, STILL required by god to place faith in Christ in order to have God apply His grace towards their behalf!
neither of them hold to "luck", as God has freely determined what will come to pass, and there is a difference between Supra and Hyper, as one still follows biblical concepts, while other does not!
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
I know neither hold to the Term "LUCK" however logically it follows that if God makes election not based on anything other than his whim and nothing based on the being then the choice of those he elects and the choice of those he damns is arbitrary or not based on anything. Thus whether some one is elect or damned is not based on "God's love for them" because it would be an inherent issure that the man elect has that over the man who is damned but Niether would say that is so therefore arbitrariness must be what rules the decision. And since the decision is basesless apart from whim those that go to hell do so based on the "luck" of the draw just as those that go to heaven go there based on the luck of the draw. Because in both cases Hyper calvinism and supralapsarianism both hold that God Ordains those who will be elect and ordains those who will go to hell.
You are wrong. Calvinists do believe that no man can believe in Jesus without Jesus first saving them. Your explanation changes nothing!
Which calvinist that posts on the board teaches that one is saved first, then places faith in christ?
Fred's Wife
Member
supralapsarianism is basically fatalism, IMO!
All Calvinists and Lutherans believe that. Are you a Calvinist or a Lutheran? That is the implications of your false religion since you do not seem to know or want to admit it, since you claim that only YOU can believe in God and no one else can after learning of Jesus. It usually is not only an implication of Calvinists and Lutherans, but it is usually proclaimed loudly by most who believe they were predestined to believe.
You even said so yourself in this post:
Post # 27
QUOTE Yeshua1: “Obedience comes after the faith in christ, as have to be saved first before can obey Him!”
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1836338#post1836338
Obeying is to believe and repent. You hinder people from Jesus saving them when you teach we cannot obey first. I even gave you scriptures that Jesus says that is the way he chooses whom he will reveal himself!
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What most of them believe is that one has to be regenerated first. Then upon regeneration God gives them faith to believe, upon which they are saved. That is the order.
I am sorry to say that he is the same one that has been banned six times and he is presently on the forum under at least three different titles. I believe he is demon possessed.
savedbymercy
New Member
dhk
You do, to have Faith, for it is a Fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Faith is an activity of the New Man Created in Righteousness and True Holiness Eph 4:24
and that ye put on that new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
You see Faith Pleases God Heb 11:6 and the scripture is clear , too clear, that the Flesh cannot Please God Rom 8:7-8
7because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
The only kind of mind a unregenerate person has is a carnal mind ! And with that said, it cannot please God, it cannot Believe on Christ as God commands 1 Jn 3:23
23And this is His commandment: that we should believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
Acts 16:31
31And they said, "Believe [A Command] in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."
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You do, to have Faith, for it is a Fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Faith is an activity of the New Man Created in Righteousness and True Holiness Eph 4:24
and that ye put on that new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
You see Faith Pleases God Heb 11:6 and the scripture is clear , too clear, that the Flesh cannot Please God Rom 8:7-8
7because the carnal mind is enmity against God, for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
The only kind of mind a unregenerate person has is a carnal mind ! And with that said, it cannot please God, it cannot Believe on Christ as God commands 1 Jn 3:23
23And this is His commandment: that we should believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
Acts 16:31
31And they said, "Believe [A Command] in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house."
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: It is a natural impossibility for the mind to attempt to forms intents consistent with something it sees as an absolute impossibility. One is kidding themselves if they think they are striving for something impossible in this world and will of necessity be accomplished in death regardless of effort or the lack of effort in this present world.
So you are absolutely right. Why try if it is impossible. The devil himself could conceive of no better plan to hoodwink professing believers into causing them to think more highly of themselves and the relationship one believes they have in Christ, than to convince them that regardless of what they do here and now it all comes out the same in death. The notion that everything will be made holy in death for a professing believer is a lie straight from the enemy of our souls.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
HP: We are told by so many that not only do they sin everyday, but all their sins have already been atoned for in a literal forensic sense. How does one harmonize such a belief with the Scripture above?
HP: We are told by so many that not only do they sin everyday, but all their sins have already been atoned for in a literal forensic sense. How does one harmonize such a belief with the Scripture above?
From your theological perspective it would be impossible to harmonize them. From your interpretative persective it would be impossible to harmonize them.
Since you will not even recognize and consider our theological and interpretative perspective it would be impossible to harmonize them in YOUR MIND!
You refuse to accept POSITIONAL justification versus personal progressive sanctification as two completely different aspects under the greater umbrella of "salvation."
First, the text you are referring to is really a denial that loss of salvation is possible. The subjunctive case introduces a speculative but unreal consideration. If a true child of God could lose their salvation they could never be resaved as being resaved means repeating initial gospel conversion. If a true child of God could lose their salvation they could never be resaved because being resaved means repeating the cross over again for Christ and such a repitition puts him in bad light as a Savior and thus places him rather than the sinner he saved in open shame.
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Where is this Scriptural proof of 'positional' justification?
Are you presently seated in heavenly places "IN CHRIST" - Eph. 2:6???
Explain how you are there right now and yet are still on earth right now?
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
I like the answer, 'by faith.'
If one has unconfessed, unrepented of, and unforsaken sin, I would see faith of being seated in such a heavenly place to be dead faith at best.
If one has unconfessed, unrepented of, and unforsaken sin, I would see faith of being seated in such a heavenly place to be dead faith at best.
Why are you not "standing" by faith in heaven instead of "seated"? How does faith place you "in" Christ and "in" heaven "in a "seated" position?
Furthermore, when you say "by faith" are you saying YOU BELIEVE you are actually now in heaven and on earth at the same time? What is the basis for that belief???
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
Scriptural truth as testified to by a clear conscience before God and man. That is where anyone would find such an a clear idea testified to.
Notice the Apostle Paul's testimony of his clear conscience. If any desire to have his assurances, they need to have his conscience.
Act 24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.
Notice the Apostle Paul's testimony of his clear conscience. If any desire to have his assurances, they need to have his conscience.
Act 24:16 And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offence toward God, and toward men.