Limited or Definite Atonement is the Gospel !

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I think what is missing is the understanding of "and that not of yourselves." Yes, we are saved by grace through faith, and faith is not a work, but rather is contrasted with works. However, the bible is clear that "faith" is "not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast."

The idea that a person can have faith without the intervention of God in regeneration is anathema to the teachings of the bible.

I have asked the same question hundreds of times on this and the Fundamental forum and never received an answer. "If two people hear the exact same message and one gets saved but the other does not, what is the difference? Is one better than the other? Smarter? More spiritual. More submissive?" If salvation is not 100% of God then there is something in some people that is better than what is in other people to merit that salvation.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Faith is the moment the eyes are finally open, the mind becomes clear & you the sinner can now put it all together...that your life is sinful, that you were a non believer, that your prior life before regeneration was a denial of God & that more than anything, you wound Christ by your continuing to sin. This realization(whether it comes gradually or at lighting speed to you at the moment of regeneration) changes the sinner to a person who now recognizes his pathetic situation.....thats when he or she cries out for mercy ....Lord save me least I should perish!

Is that a work.....well technically you are doing something that may appear to be all of you but I dont qualify it as a work....rather its a realization of your sin of denying Christ & what your punishment will be if you dont wise up. Think thats called Divine Intervention (that slaps some sense into you) For me it was not about punishment but shame. Shame for disrespecting my Savior, shame for having the sin of non-belief, shame for being a lier & hypocrite & it was time to put up or shut up. Besides who would pass on the opportunity to have new life.....that I was still considered worthy to be taken in and adopted into His family (well now we are getting into Gods mercy & off the subject) BUT WOW! :godisgood:

 

[Amy.G]

Faith is the moment the eyes are finally open, the mind becomes clear & you the sinner can now put it all together...

That is it! God has to turn the light on. Until then you are in the dark and don't care.

 

[Tom Butler]

When the Holy Spirit began his work in me to illuminate my mind, to bring me face to face with my sin, and to see it as God sees it, my initial reaction was not shame--it was terror. All those sermons I had heard on Hell were suddenly applied to me. Scared me to death. Then all those sermons I had heard (and ignored) calling on sinners to repent and trust Christ alone for salvation came flooding in. Down the aisle I ran.

 

[TCassidy]

Amen, Tom! When I was saved it was much the same. God opened my blind eyes and unstopped my deaf ears and I saw the shame of my past and the terror of my future. It was that regenerating grace that allowed me to see and hear and believe, and to walk that isle to make my faith public. Isn't God good!

 

[savedbymercy]

the bib

Do you know the difference between redemption and "saved"?

They are actually the same thing. The redeemed


The redeemed Ps 107:2

Let the redeemed of the LORD say so, whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy;


Isa 35:9

No lion shall be there, nor any ravenous beast shall go up thereon, it shall not be found there; but the redeemed shall walk there:

Isa 51:11

Therefore the redeemed of the LORD shall return, and come with singing unto Zion; and everlasting joy shall be upon their head: they shall obtain gladness and joy; and sorrow and mourning shall flee away.

Isa 62:12

And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.

In each of these instances it very well could have read the saved of the Lord.

The basic meaning here is that of deliverance.

Ps 106:10

And he saved them from the hand of him that hated them, and redeemed them from the hand of the enemy.


Here both terms are used, saved them, redeemed them !


Both have a present and future. The Elect are now in a saved state, 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

The word saved here is actually present tense and means being saved, the elect are being saved by the preaching of the Cross !

But then, there is a Salvation that is Yet future, when the Elect shalt be saved, as when Paul says Rom 13:11

11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Heb 9:28

28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

There is a future Salvation for those who are presently saved by Grace.

The elect are now presently redeemed as Per 1 Pet 1:18-19

18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:

And yet there is a day of redemption coming, as like when Jesus says to the Saints in The Tribulation Period shortly before He returns Lk 21:28

And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

or Paul to the Church

Eph 4:30

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

The redeemed of 1 Pet 1:18 can look forward to being redeemed !

Now, all the Elect of God have been saved by the Eternal Purpose of God, before they are called in Time 2 Tim 1:9

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This is being saved according to Purpose !

Now, this means, according to the Divine Purpose, before the world began, the Elect are saved, there has never been even the slightest possibility that any Elect would not spend Eternity with God and Christ, not even for a fraction of a second was it possible, for that would be contrary to the Divine Purpose !

Its a lot you have no clue about regarding these matters !

 

[Yeshua1]

I think what is missing is the understanding of "and that not of yourselves." Yes, we are saved by grace through faith, and faith is not a work, but rather is contrasted with works. However, the bible is clear that "faith" is "not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast."

The idea that a person can have faith without the intervention of God in regeneration is anathema to the teachings of the bible.

I have asked the same question hundreds of times on this and the Fundamental forum and never received an answer. "If two people hear the exact same message and one gets saved but the other does not, what is the difference? Is one better than the other? Smarter? More spiritual. More submissive?" If salvation is not 100% of God then there is something in some people that is better than what is in other people to merit that salvation.

ONLY difference was that One was chosen by God to be saved by the death of His Son, while the other person was left to do as he desired, as a sinner who would freely chose to reject Christ!

 

[Yeshua1]

just curious as to How faith can be sen as a work that we would be adding to get saved, as it is REQUIRED by the Lord , so how can it be a work, If God ordained it?

 

[Yeshua1]

That is it! God has to turn the light on. Until then you are in the dark and don't care.

faith/repentance/Cross/election/salvation etc ALL are part of the salvation package God has for those whom are elect in Christ!

 

[Yeshua1]

When the Holy Spirit began his work in me to illuminate my mind, to bring me face to face with my sin, and to see it as God sees it, my initial reaction was not shame--it was terror. All those sermons I had heard on Hell were suddenly applied to me. Scared me to death. Then all those sermons I had heard (and ignored) calling on sinners to repent and trust Christ alone for salvation came flooding in. Down the aisle I ran.

Unless/until the Holy Spirit allows you to receive the Gospel message, even the Gospel by itself cannot save a sinner whose refusing to hear and heed it!

 

[convicted1]

I think what is missing is the understanding of "and that not of yourselves." Yes, we are saved by grace through faith, and faith is not a work, but rather is contrasted with works. However, the bible is clear that "faith" is "not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast."

The idea that a person can have faith without the intervention of God in regeneration is anathema to the teachings of the bible.

I have asked the same question hundreds of times on this and the Fundamental forum and never received an answer. "If two people hear the exact same message and one gets saved but the other does not, what is the difference? Is one better than the other? Smarter? More spiritual. More submissive?" If salvation is not 100% of God then there is something in some people that is better than what is in other people to merit that salvation.

I agree that faith is a gift of God, and not of ourselves. That being said, I think that "Grace" is what Paul is truly addressing here, and not "faith". Neither grace nor faith are conjoured up within man, but the "gift of God" that Paul is addressing here is grace, and not faith, imho.