Featured The New Covenant for New Creatures Isaiah 59:20-21 - The Gospel according to Isaiah

spiritual isreal are those jews who have received yeshua as their messiah, NOT meaning the new Covenant Church!

All jews that get saved are Spiritual Isreal from throughout time of jesus until his return, and when Christ returns, then shall all Jews alive be reborn, as national isreal will born in a day!

Fulfillment of Ezekiel prophecy of bones becoming flesh and reborn as a body!

 

Outstanding thread Tom, very well thought out, very informative, and yes it is a very rich topic, thanks.

The passage above always reminds me of Christ's words to/of Nathanael:

Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold, an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! Jn1:47 (..whose praise is not from men but from God)

 

Look to me like Tom took some website and posted everything in. Again opinions without true biblical Hermanutics. For if you truly cross-reference back to the prophets you would see that the Jews saw a Messiah coming who would sit on the throne of David in Israel and that the prophecy will be literally fulfilled for true DNA Israel not some replacement theology. Second through the New Testament Paul, Peter, John and others wrote of a returning Messiah, Christ Himself showed John His return in Revelation 19 to come and reign for 1000 years while during that time Satan would be bound. At that time Isaiah 59 and following will be fulfilled in its fulness. Christ sitting upon the throne of David as prophesied in Israel, in Jerusalem just as the O.T. prophisied and the N.T. tells us.

It is a shame someone puts so much time into trying to prove the Bible to be a book of metaphores and myths rather than simply seeing it as God has given it to us.

1 John 4: 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.

6We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

I've tried the Spirit and found it wanting not of God.

Notice this verse it makes things very clear, 1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

Those who have faith in Christ have overcome the world.

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

What is promised to Those who overcometh:
1. To be clothed in White Raiment, now notice REveleation 4:4And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

How are the 24 elders clothed, in White raiment, next look at Revelation 19:14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
How are the armies that accompany Him clothed when He come in judgement, in fine linen clean and white.

Those who overcome are the believers of the church not the O.T. believers in Israel and not the tribulation saints of Revelation 6 through 19. The Church comes with Christ at His return, this couldn't have happened in 70 A.D. as many believers were on the earth and even the apostle John was alive till at least 100 A.D. so the church by just this is not a replacement of nation Israel but a fulfillment of the mystery that the prophets never saw.

 

Next what do we see those who overcome promised:

2. There names are no blotted out of the book of life but will have their name confessed to the Father and the Angels.

3. Those who overcome, "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."

They will live in the New Jerusalem which Christ Himself says will come down out of Heaven, when does the New Jerusalem come down out of heaven?

Rev. 20:1And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev. 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

After the 1000 year reign of Christ (verse 6) upon the earth and then verse 7 satan is loosed after the 1000 year reign. This is literal prophecy that has yet to be fulfilled, for if the Kingdom age started in 70 A.D. then 1070 A.D. the New Jerusalem would be resting upon this earth as seen in Revelation 21 for the old would have passed away.

 

The last thing the Overcomer is promised:
Revelation 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

He will reign with Christ on His throne notice Rev. 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Again Christ promise fulfilled for the Church believer, not for a replacement Israel but for those who overcome.

Remember, 1 John 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

I have followed 1 John 4: 1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God:... and found this Preterist teaching wanting proven with the Scripture as the Holy Spirit and Spoken by Christ in the first Chapters of Revelation and this teaching of Preterism has a not the Spirit of God to support it, it is in fact contrary to scripture and even goes against early 1st and 2nd century Church teaching which expected Christ return and believed He would physically return for His Bride the Church. Paul taught it Peter Taught it and Jesus Taught it, and I believe that Christ will physically return and scripture proves it out.

 

I assume that I'm still on the coveted *tom "iggy" list but seems hard to believe that a discussion of The New Covenant doesn't analyze Jer. 31:31-38 which clearly states who the covenant is with and what the covenant entailes. Then there is Eze 37:15-28, no friend of the covenant crowd either.

Covenant believers in general and Preterist in particular do not take the words of Jesus seriously when he says in Matt 5:17-19 in effect that every detail of prophecy will come to pass. Hebrews 11, a favorite of covenant believers actually in fact argues for a future resurrection of Abraham and his seed to occupy the land promised in Gen 15. This is in agreement with the words of Jesus in Matt 22:23-33 and the parallel passages on this matter.

Of course the biggest problem that covenant theology faces, not counting the fact that the Bible does not spell out a covenant of works, grace and redemption, is the concept that if Israel is no longer a party of the covenant promised to the patriarchs due to disobedience, what gives the church any assurance that Jehovah will not act ain like manner since the church is no better than the Israelites in this regard?

 

26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, which is our mother.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; Break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: For more are the children of the desolate than of her that hath the husband. Gal; 4

Ps 87:

1 A Psalm of the sons of Korah; a Song. His foundation is in the holy mountains.
2 Jehovah loveth the gates of Zion More than all the dwellings of Jacob.
3 Glorious things are spoken of thee, O city of God. Selah
4 I will make mention of Rahab and Babylon as among them that know me: Behold, Philistia, and Tyre, with Ethiopia: This one was born there.
5 Yea, of Zion it shall be said, This one and that one was born in her; And the Most High himself will establish her.
6 Jehovah will count, when he writeth up the peoples, This one was born there. Selah
7 They that sing as well as they that dance shall say, All my fountains are in thee.

One of my favorite Old Baptist hymns:

Glorious Things Of Thee Are Spoken

Glorious things of thee are spoken,
Zion, city of our God!
He, Whose Word cannot be broken,
Formed thee for His own abode.
On the Rock of Ages founded,
What can shake thy sure repose?
With salvation's walls surrounded,
Thou may'st smile at all thy foes.

See! the streams of living waters,
Springing from eternal love;
Well supply thy sons and daughters,
And all fear of want remove:
Who can faint while such a river
Ever flows their thirst t'assuage?
Grace, which like the Lord, the Giver,
Never fails from age to age.

Round each habitation hovering,
See the cloud and fire appear!
For a glory and a cov'ring
Showing that the Lord is near.
Thus deriving from our banner
Light by night and shade by day;
Safe they feed upon the manna
Which He gives them when they pray.

Blest inhabitants of Zion,
Washed in the Redeemer's blood!
Jesus, Whom their souls rely on,
Makes them kings and priests to God.
'Tis His love His people raises,
Over self to reign as kings,
And as priests, His solemn praises
Each for a thank offering brings.

Savior, if of Zion's city,
I through grace a member am,
Let the world deride or pity,
I will glory in Thy Name.
Fading is the worldling's pleasure,
All his boasted pomp and show;
Solid joys and lasting treasure
None but Zion's children know.

 

Thou mayest not wonder that I said to thee, It behoveth you to be born from above; Jn 3:7

 

I more or less agree with you here Tom in that a nation will be born in one day however my personal opinion id that nation will be the kingdom of God.

Along with the line of your thoughts from Isa see also:
Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, [that] whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Compare with:
Acts 15:16,17 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

Jesus will return establish the kingdom of God on the earth with he and those whom he called for his name Ruling.

That is why the elect are predestined. It is not about some for heaven and some for hell. Now to inherit the kingdom of God and to rule forever requires immortality of soul and an incorruptible house for the soul.

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal [must] put on immortality.

I know our eschatology and kingdom understanding isn't the same but if you can lay that aside for a moment would my understanding not fit according to scripture?

 

I did not quote post 11 because of length but let be ask:

Jer. 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

The above taken with a reading of the book of Hosea would you not say that
sister Judah is the one that still had/has a husband and that the house of Israel is the sister that is desolate?

 

Keep going brother for chapter 66 is a must for my understanding especially when used with Psalm 139 concerning the body of Christ.

139:16 Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all [my members] were written, [which] in continuance were fashioned, when [as yet there was] none of them.

Does that look like those written in the Lamb's book not yet not made perfect? A pre resurrection concept of the resurrected Christ in verse 15. Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; I should have pasted 15: My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, [and] curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.

 

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:..correct