The New Covenant for New Creatures Isaiah 59:20-21 - The Gospel according to Isaiah

[kyredneck]

I did not quote post 11 because of length but let be ask:

Jer. 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

The above taken with a reading of the book of Hosea would you not say that
sister Judah is the one that still had/has a husband and that the house of Israel is the sister that is desolate?

To the house of Judah Christ said:

.... Let there be no fruit from thee henceforward for ever....Mt 21:19

Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Mt 23:38

Which agrees with:

21 And a strong angel took up a stone as it were a great millstone and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with a mighty fall shall Babylon, the great city, be cast down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers and minstrels and flute-players and trumpeters shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft, shall be found any more at all in thee; and the voice of a mill shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 and the light of a lamp shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the princes of the earth; for with thy sorcery were all the nations deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that have been slain upon the earth. Rev 18

Their's is a heaven and earth of iron and brass. We are new creatures of the new heaven and earth of the new covenant.

 

[revmwc]

The NT explains the Spiritual was what was in view


This is the issue right here. The NT is clear the promise of the Abrahamic covenant was to seed singular....Christ.....and...US In HIM.....



Brother.......one new man IN Christ.....one...not two:thumbs::love2:

and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:

Gen. 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

All nations are being blessed by the Seed of Abraham that seed is Christ.
We are first and foremost the children of God and we are heirs to the promise, what promise? I believe Hebrews 6 gives the key,

17Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:

18That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

19Which hope we have as an anchor of the soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;

20Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

We are heirs to the Hope of Eternal life in Christ the seed of Abraham through whom we are blessed.

Hebrews 11: 8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

9By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise:

By faith Abraham received the Promise we are heirs of the Faith Promise just as every born again believer is, the Promise of the Land is different. Numbers 34:13And Moses commanded the children of Israel, saying, This is the land which ye shall inherit by lot, which the LORD commanded to give unto the nine tribes, and to the half tribe:

14For the tribe of the children of Reuben according to the house of their fathers, and the tribe of the children of Gad according to the house of their fathers, have received their inheritance; and half the tribe of Manasseh have received their inheritance:

15The two tribes and the half tribe have received their inheritance on this side Jordan near Jericho eastward, toward the sunrising.

The division of the land is specifically laid out as to the tribes of Israel, the sons of Jacob, that inheritence has never fully taken place, the tribe of Benjamin was never able to fully possess their inheritance due to not defeating the Philsitines, as with many of the other tirbes. They failed to conquer the land so the inheritance has never been theirs to claim, but they will in the Messianic Kingdom, each tribe will dwell safely in their land of inheritence just as the Abrahamic covenant promises.

 

[percho]

To the house of Judah Christ said:

.... Let there be no fruit from thee henceforward for ever....Mt 21:19

Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Mt 23:38

Which agrees with:

21 And a strong angel took up a stone as it were a great millstone and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with a mighty fall shall Babylon, the great city, be cast down, and shall be found no more at all.
22 And the voice of harpers and minstrels and flute-players and trumpeters shall be heard no more at all in thee; and no craftsman, of whatsoever craft, shall be found any more at all in thee; and the voice of a mill shall be heard no more at all in thee;
23 and the light of a lamp shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the princes of the earth; for with thy sorcery were all the nations deceived.
24 And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that have been slain upon the earth. Rev 18

Their's is a heaven and earth of iron and brass. We are new creatures of the new heaven and earth of the new covenant.

To the house of Judah Christ said:

.... Let there be no fruit from thee henceforward for ever....Mt 21:19

Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. Mt 23:38

With the above I agree in this context for this reason:

Amos 3:1,2 Hear this word that the LORD hath spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

Only part of the whole family were in the land when Jesus was born of Mary. Nationally, Judeans of the house of Judea a part of Israel, children of Israel.

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Who of the whole family which were brought up out of Israel are blinded in part?
According to the book of Hosea were not the house of Israel also known as Ephraim scattered among the nations, (Gentiles) assimilated among them and even known as Gentiles yet by God considered foreigners among the Gentiles?

Like you I also see a tie in to the passage from Rev. but am not sure even of my understanding of Babylon. Need to do more study. I have always thought of her as the anti of the Church of which Christ built.

 

[asterisktom]

Like you I also see a tie in to the passage from Rev. but am not sure even of my understanding of Babylon. Need to do more study. I have always thought of her as the anti of the Church of which Christ built.

One quick drive-by comment. One of the interesting ways to see just who Babylon is - who they become by the time of the NT - is noticing how Babylon texts are used in the NT.

For instance, we have Paul's use, in 2 Cor, of "Come out from her" [Babylon, as the OT passage shows]. Yet he was writing to the church, redeemed Jews and gentiles of Corinth. They were to come out of the religious system of their time, the soon to be utterly abominated last-generation Jewish religion (Babylon).

This is only one of many NT-OT comparisons that can be drawn upon.

 

[asterisktom]

The division of the land is specifically laid out as to the tribes of Israel, the sons of Jacob, that inheritence has never fully taken place, the tribe of Benjamin was never able to fully possess their inheritance due to not defeating the Philsitines, as with many of the other tirbes. They failed to conquer the land so the inheritance has never been theirs to claim, but they will in the Messianic Kingdom, each tribe will dwell safely in their land of inheritence just as the Abrahamic covenant promises.

Joshua disagrees with you. He says that they did receive what was promised. In full.

 

[Yeshua1]

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:..correct

[spiritual isreal are those jews who have received yeshua as their messiah, NOT meaning the new Covenant Church!
/QUOTE]

No...this is clearly against biblical teaching.

The church is God's eternal purpose.....Christian Israel.

Not all isreal is isreal!

In the Age of Grace now, the Lord has One Body, made up of Gentiles, and "spiritual" Jews, faithful remnant, that make up Hios "true isreal"

saved Spiritual isreal, Jews, and Gentiles formed the Body/Church today!

After the Rapture, Great Tribulation, and God deals with remaining national isreal, and they will become spiritual isreal and go into Kingdom with Jesus ruling over them in the Kingdom of the Second Coming Christ manifests over the earth!

 

[asterisktom]

:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:..correct



Not all isreal is isreal!

In the Age of Grace now, the Lord has One Body, made up of Gentiles, and "spiritual" Jews, faithful remnant, that make up Hios "true isreal"

saved Spiritual isreal, Jews, and Gentiles formed the Body/Church today!

After the Rapture, Great Tribulation, and God deals with remaining national isreal, and they will become spiritual isreal and go into Kingdom with Jesus ruling over them in the Kingdom of the Second Coming Christ manifests over the earth!

"God deals with remaining national Israel"?

That would be double-dealing on the part of God. Assuming you believe in some sort of massive conversion of Jews in the future, you would have God giving these latter-day (sic) Jews (sic) much greater opportunity for salvation than the earlier ones, most of whom are now damned.

God told Israel, in the Shema, that "God is One" - yet His people would be two! Three, actually:
1. The Christians
2. Converted Israel
3. Future converted-in-a-day-by-seeing-those-nailprints-in-a-physical-coming-Jesus Israel

 

[Iconoclast]

Joshua disagrees with you. He says that they did receive what was promised. In full.

:thumbs:

14And, behold, this day I am going the way of all the earth: and ye know in all your hearts and in all your souls, that not one thing hath failed of all the good things which the LORD your God spake concerning you; all are come to pass unto you, and not one thing hath failed thereof.

15Therefore it shall come to pass, that as all good things are come upon you, which the LORD your God promised you; so shall the LORD bring upon you all evil things, until he have destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God hath given you.
16When ye have transgressed the covenant of the LORD your God, which he commanded you, and have gone and served other gods, and bowed yourselves to them; then shall the anger of the LORD be kindled against you, and ye shall perish quickly from off the good land which he hath given unto you.

...............the land promises of physical land were conditional

In the Age of Grace now, the Lord has One Body, made up of Gentiles, and "spiritual" Jews, faithful remnant, that make up Hios "true isreal"

there has always been grace since Gen 3:15...there has not been an age without grace. There is only believers and unbelievers

28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Rev mac...you went to hebrews 11...but there is more there!

13These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

14For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

15And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

and this:

39And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:

40God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

 

[asterisktom]

:thumbs:...............the land promises of physical land were conditional

Thanks, Iconoclast. I knew the verses were there, but I was too lazy to look them up.

 

[Iconoclast]

Thanks, Iconoclast. I knew the verses were there, but I was too lazy to look them up.

In my past premill stage I never saw those verses:laugh:

Isa 59-66 along with hebrews 12 18-24,,,,,and gal 4....are strong texts and very exciting to study out...all the Ot prophets blend in nicely;;;

13Put ye in the sickle, for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great.

14Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near in the valley of decision.

15The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining.
16The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel.

17So shall ye know that I am the LORD your God dwelling in Zion, my holy mountain: then shall Jerusalem be holy, and there shall no strangers pass through her any more.

18And it shall come to pass in that day, that the mountains shall drop down new wine, and the hills shall flow with milk, and all the rivers of Judah shall flow with waters, and a fountain shall come forth out of the house of the LORD, and shall water the valley of Shittim.

19Egypt shall be a desolation, and Edom shall be a desolate wilderness, for the violence against the children of Judah, because they have shed innocent blood in their land.

20But Judah shall dwell for ever, and Jerusalem from generation to generation.

21For I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed: for the LORD dwelleth in Zion.

 

[asterisktom]

In my past premill stage I never saw those verses:laugh:

Isa 59-66 along with hebrews 12 18-24,,,,,and gal 4....are strong texts and very exciting to study out...all the Ot prophets blend in nicely;;;

Yes, they are. In Isaiah I finally am getting back to my article I wrote last year, chapter 61. Lots of connections, both with the NT and also elsewhere in the OT.

The greatest single leap in my understanding of OT prophecy came, I think, when I finally got out of my head that loopy Clarence Larkin drawing of the OT prophets looking into the future but not seeing the church because they were in a valley, out of sight. Do you know the one I mean? As if God had never given us Amos 3:7:

"Surely the Lord Jehovah will do nothing, except he reveal his secret unto his servants the prophets."

EDIT: Here is the link to that Clarence Larkin chart, showing the prophets supposedly clueless about the church:
http://www.preservedwords.com/images/lprophecy.gif

 

[Iconoclast]

Yes, they are. In Isaiah I finally am getting back to my article I wrote last year, chapter 61. Lots of connections, both with the NT and also elsewhere in the OT.

The greatest single leap in my understanding of OT prophecy came, I think, when I finally got out of my head that loopy Clarence Larkin drawing of the OT prophets looking into the future but not seeing the church because they were in a valley, out of sight. Do you know the one I mean? As if God had never given us Amos 3:7:

"Surely the Lord Jehovah will do nothing, except he reveal his secret unto his servants the prophets."

Yes...I know...I have the chart, the tribulation map,the chart by bates...at the time I was scrambling to learn it....using my scofield bible, dwight penecosts things to come,walvoords books....

the way they wrongly divide the bible did not allow me to see what the apostles declared to be fulfilled.