Each one of these are symptoms of mental illness.
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Let's clear up one misconception
- Thread starter seekingthetruth
- Start date
Each one of these are symptoms of mental illness.
Perhaps you are equating sin to what is not sin.
We are not discussing worry, fear, sadness.
Making one rational so that confession and forsaking can take place is not sin, nor is it sinful to take a medication to repair a lack of the body's ability.
Just as it is not sinful to put a cast on a broken leg gotten by one who has fled wickedness and runs in front of the police pursuit.
If the medication corrects a chemical problem (just as a diabetic is corrected by insulin) such is not "masking" or "covering up" sin.
What would be a sinful to refuse the use of medication so that a person who has a chemical deficit or chemical imbalance is not helped when help is available. The same as ignoring the broken leg of the wicked after the pursuit would be sinful.
Let's clear this up FAL once and for all, and all will see your quackery.
First, admit that stress is purely mental and must be dealt with on a spiritual plane. The Bible says that we should have peace. They that have peace will have no stress. True? There is no reason why a person who is right with God should have any stress at all? Is that not true? Therefore stress should fall into the category of something you need to confess, forsake, ask forgiveness, and ask God to give you peace instead of stress. Agreed?
Now look as at some other secular information:
First, admit that stress is purely mental and must be dealt with on a spiritual plane. The Bible says that we should have peace. They that have peace will have no stress. True? There is no reason why a person who is right with God should have any stress at all? Is that not true? Therefore stress should fall into the category of something you need to confess, forsake, ask forgiveness, and ask God to give you peace instead of stress. Agreed?
Now look as at some other secular information:
Diseases caused By Stress
What are the diseases caused by stress and how are these diseases caused by stress? The effect of stress on the body can have far reaching effects on each and every system of the body.
The translation of emotional distress to physiological change, and thence to a physical symptom is known as 'transduction'. In transduction, a situation is perceived, a meaning is assigned to it, an emotional response is elicited and a physiological reaction results. A complex autoimmune, humoral and neuromuscular mechanisms mediate this reaction, and may itself affect the environment, generating in turn a social response that may yield either a positive or negative feedback.
Many of the effects of stress on mind and body are due to increased sympathetic nervous system activity and an outpouring of adrenaline, cortisol and other stress-related hormones.
http://www.lesstress.net/diseases-caused-by-stress.htm
All of the above is related to stress. Are all of the above spiritual problems?
The translation of emotional distress to physiological change, and thence to a physical symptom is known as 'transduction'. In transduction, a situation is perceived, a meaning is assigned to it, an emotional response is elicited and a physiological reaction results. A complex autoimmune, humoral and neuromuscular mechanisms mediate this reaction, and may itself affect the environment, generating in turn a social response that may yield either a positive or negative feedback.
A FEW STRESS RELATED DISEASES
- Acid Peptic Disease
- Alcoholism
- Asthma
- Fatigue
- Tension Headache
- Hypertension
- Insomnia
- Irritable Bowel Syndrome
- Ischemic Heart Disease
- Psychoneuroses
- Sexual Dysfunction
- Skin diseases like Psoriasis,Lichen planus,Urticaria,Pruritus,Neurodermatitis etc
http://www.lesstress.net/diseases-caused-by-stress.htm
All of the above is related to stress. Are all of the above spiritual problems?
freeatlast
New Member
Like I said eating dirt and perhaps not socializing is not sin unless you can show me some scripture to the contrary. Now sadness could be sin if prolonged and drugs do not fix sin, confession and forsaking does. It does not matter that the world call a sin a mental illness, God calls it a sin and the fix is confession and forsaking. There is no question that our sin can drive us crazy, but even the craziness is sin when brought on by sin.
freeatlast
New Member
Drugs do not help in confession and forsaking. It is a matter of the will.
It is also a matter of the will to resist drugs that mask the little bit of pain that one could endure without the drug. We live in a society of wimps. Tylenol and Aspirin is not a panacea for every little pain.
What happened to "endure hardness as a good soldier of Jesus Christ."
Being a preditor is a sin, but those who are manic depresant is a different thing. A manic deprsant is so due to a chemical imbalance in their body. One who is bi-polar has a chemical imbalance that is causing the nervous system to be out of it's normal patterns. A preditor can have his sin mask by drugs but what he did is still sin and must be dealt with by him. The drugs can keep him from those lust but if he fails to confess and repent he is still a sinner with a sin problem.
The manic depressant and bi-polar person have a chemical imbalance that noone really knows where it comes from, they cut themselves they can forget who they are or who their family is, but what sin have they committed to cause them to be in that mental state? Balance the chemicals and they can live a fairly normal life. What sin has the ADD or ADHD child commited that brought on their condition? Christ said in His when ask if the man born blind was born that way because of the sin of his parents or he sinned, Christ said neither were true but that God's glory could come from it. God has given doctors the knowledge to diagnos and medicate the problem, but FAL you say it is sin at what age did they sin and what is the sin that lead to the disease.
Or how about the man who was in three or four auto accidents and he wass hit in the rear each time and he becomes menatlly ill from the accidents causing a chemical imbalance what is his sin? You cannot attribute all mental illness to sin and you cannot equate the taking of drugs which God gave man the intelligence to design as sin. God's way of escape may very well be the drugs that one takes to calm the problem, not cure it, God alone can cure it if He wants to but maybe His will is that they deal with a throne in the flesh just as Paul did and God's grace is suffiecient.
The manic depressant and bi-polar person have a chemical imbalance that noone really knows where it comes from, they cut themselves they can forget who they are or who their family is, but what sin have they committed to cause them to be in that mental state? Balance the chemicals and they can live a fairly normal life. What sin has the ADD or ADHD child commited that brought on their condition? Christ said in His when ask if the man born blind was born that way because of the sin of his parents or he sinned, Christ said neither were true but that God's glory could come from it. God has given doctors the knowledge to diagnos and medicate the problem, but FAL you say it is sin at what age did they sin and what is the sin that lead to the disease.
Or how about the man who was in three or four auto accidents and he wass hit in the rear each time and he becomes menatlly ill from the accidents causing a chemical imbalance what is his sin? You cannot attribute all mental illness to sin and you cannot equate the taking of drugs which God gave man the intelligence to design as sin. God's way of escape may very well be the drugs that one takes to calm the problem, not cure it, God alone can cure it if He wants to but maybe His will is that they deal with a throne in the flesh just as Paul did and God's grace is suffiecient.
Well, pica (the desire to eat things that are not food) is a sign of mental illness just as much as suicidal thoughts are. Not socializing well is autism - and is listed in the book on mental illnesses. Now, my friend's son was diagnosed with severe autism at the age of 2.5. What sin has he had in his little life to cause this issue and what would he confess to get rid of this "mental illness"?
Hmm - haven't there been people in the Bible who had prolonged sadness that was not due to sin? Is it a sin if it lasts more than a day? Or how about more than a week? Is there a "sin threshold" that creates the difference between what is acceptable and what is not?
freeatlast
New Member
Well alcoholism is always sin from sinning as no one ever became an alcoholic unless they started drinking and getting drunk.
Head aches could be from sin but not always
Sexual Dysfunction could be from sin but not always.
The other things you mentioned do not cause stress. Many people have those illness and do not have stress with them. If the person has stress then perhaps they need to trust the Lord and accept where they are at or they would be in sin.
As to stress if the stress is due to sin then the stress is sin. Just like an eating disorder is sin from sin and a cutting disorder is sin from sin. The only relief from sin is confession and forsaking. Drugs cover sin and confession and forsaking sets the person free.
freeatlast
New Member
suicidal thoughts are always sin and because of sin. autism is not a sin no no confession is needed. However if the child sins they still need to confess and forsake as autism is not a justification for sin.
People who are sad for a day or even a week are not accused of being mentally ill and put on drugs. Long term sadness comes for a reason an it may be un-forgiveness, anger, or what ever, so long term sadness always comes from sin and confession and forsaking is the answer, not drugs as drugs only cover the problem.
Yet it is not a sin to drink else you call Jesus a sinner and God a proponent of sin, commanding His people to partake.
This is so assinine I'm not even going to respond.
Yes, this is true.
So you don't think the young 22 year old daughter of a friend who has irritable bowel/Chrone's disease is not stressed and instead she should just accept where she is when she poops all over herself in public otherwise she's sinning? Interesting.
Stress is not sin. Stress can be the RESULT of sin but until you show me that stress is a sin in Scripture, you are adding to the Word of God and that puts you in a very dangerous place.
I may be wrong, but I believe most headaches are stress related, unless they have a direct physical associated cause like allergies.
That being the case, a headache caused by stress would be sinful in your paradigm. If you are one taking Tylenol for such a headache you are sinning.
Of course not. What is listed are illnesses that are caused by stress or could be caused by stress.
So it is up to a medical professional to determine the cause, not up to you! And that is what the posters here have been saying all along.
I agree that stress can be sin. You have no disagreement with me.
But if you are the one getting the headaches, and you are the one taking the drugs (aspirin), then are you not hypocritical? That is my question to you? Do you take aspirin, etc. for headaches FAL?
How about those with chronic pain from Arthritis or Fibromyalgia. They are sad and down many times because of the pain they are in. Fibromyalgia is believed by many doctors to be caused from not going through all the cycles of sleep and thus causing the muscles not to relax. Many doctors place the patient on a mild anti-depressant to help them sleep through the night. So are you saying they must confess sin to stop the pain that is caused from not sleeping through all the cycles of sleep?
I agree.
BUT, they can help in making you rational and aware that you have sinned.
That does not in any way diminished the need for confessing and forsaking.
A person on LSD may not be aware that they have broken the fibula, but when they regain the rational chemical balance of the brain, they are in fact in great pain.
A person that has a chemical imbalance - no matter the cause, may not have the rational understanding of sin.
When that balance is restored, there is no question that realization of sin will need to be dealt with by confession and forsaking.
I am uncertain that Scriptures teach that confessing and forsaking is the answer for the chemical imbalance.
I suppose one must ask which came first, being clothed or in the right mind?
Seems that being in the right mind was probably first, because being unclothed (which is part of mental illness) was one of the sins of not being in the right mind.
Yet autism is a mental illness and you have said that there is no such thing but instead it is sin. So which is it? Do you now turn and say that there IS such thing as mental illness?
Or maybe it is a lack of chemicals in the brain that would allow the person to feel happiness. It has nothing to do with sin - but instead a messed up body chemistry that with a little medication, they are now able to function well enough to even THINK - think enough to follow God's Word and be joyful. To be able to see the truth and falsehoods in their life and deal with any sin - and to realize what is not sin.
So Jesus being stressed in the garden due His soon to take on the sins of mankind would be sin since sin is what brought it on. Wouldn't that disqualify Jesus as the one who could atone for our sin? His stress was caused by sin wasn't it all be it our sin He was steill under stress that night in the garden.
Yet I believe He was the only one who could pay for my sins because He was the sinless sacrifice.
Just so were not talking past each other:
"Stressful situations" are not sin, if that is what is meant by stress.
"Stressed-out" is sin.
So goes the expression: "Why worry when you can pray."
FAL is right.
He is right that confessing and forsaking is the only way to deal with sin.
What he seems to mistake is in two areas.
One is the assumption that medications mask confession and forsaking.
Any Godly doctor and any Godly psychiatrist will not "mask sin" but work to bring a rational process that the person under the leadership of the Holy Spirit will be guided, convicted, judge sin as sin - confessing and forsaking.
The other assumption is that all mental disorders are sinful manifestations.
To this he does have some foundation both by Scriptures and by observation.
However, NOT ALL are sinful manifestations.
When Patton slapped two soldiers because they were experiencing what was then called shell shock (we call it ptsd) he was mistaken. He had adapted a belief in reincarnation, and literally thought the soldiers were not living up to what would provide a better life for them in the next living experience.
That FAL has this second mistaken thinking is not isolated. Many IFB preachers blasted away at the psychiatric profession for decades, because they had little or no ability to deal with the problems and didn't want some "ungodly" group to solve the problems either.
Finally,
I am so grateful the God in His wisdom and by His authority has brought Scriptural insight into professionals who can at the least give some rational thought and help to hurting believers.
He is right that confessing and forsaking is the only way to deal with sin.
What he seems to mistake is in two areas.
One is the assumption that medications mask confession and forsaking.
Any Godly doctor and any Godly psychiatrist will not "mask sin" but work to bring a rational process that the person under the leadership of the Holy Spirit will be guided, convicted, judge sin as sin - confessing and forsaking.
The other assumption is that all mental disorders are sinful manifestations.
To this he does have some foundation both by Scriptures and by observation.
However, NOT ALL are sinful manifestations.
When Patton slapped two soldiers because they were experiencing what was then called shell shock (we call it ptsd) he was mistaken. He had adapted a belief in reincarnation, and literally thought the soldiers were not living up to what would provide a better life for them in the next living experience.
That FAL has this second mistaken thinking is not isolated. Many IFB preachers blasted away at the psychiatric profession for decades, because they had little or no ability to deal with the problems and didn't want some "ungodly" group to solve the problems either.
Finally,
I am so grateful the God in His wisdom and by His authority has brought Scriptural insight into professionals who can at the least give some rational thought and help to hurting believers.
freeatlast
New Member
I did not say it was a sin to drink. You need to read my post and not add to it.
While irritable bowel/Crone's disease is not sin someone could let it develop into stress and that would be sin.So if this causes her long term sin she needs to repent. I also have what is called dumping having to go 5 or 6 times a day and it also causes accidents as it is most always diarrhea. While I would that I did not have this it does not cause me stress because I accept it in the Lord. So again if she has stress over this then she needs to confess and forsake and accept.
1thess 5:18
In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.
Do this and stop sinning.