Let's clear up one misconception

[freeatlast]

His soul was exceeding sorrowful, even unto death, He wasn't praying not to go to the cross He was praying for strength to make it to the cross and not to die in the garden from the Stress upon His body andthe toll it was taking. Scripture proves it out.

It does not matter as this is not what is being called a mental illness where drugs are given by todays medical profession.

 

[freeatlast]

But what would their sin problem be? You would need to tell them what sin they were commiting, what is the cause. When they say like Job I have not sinned I have done nothing wrong and his friend continued their accusations. The Bible says Job did not sin even after the lose of everything.

You probably need to set down and read the book of Job. Job admits he sinned as he clearly claims he had to repent. In the beginning he did not see it and made a claim of not having any sin, but after accusing and questioning God and God responded Job saw His sin.

 

[revmwc]

It does not matter as this is not what is being called a mental illness where drugs are given by todays medical profession.

It does when they say as a pastor friend I once knew who was suffering from cancer, this illness is not from sin in my life. Yet you say to him you must have sin in your life, to which they deny. Job's friend continued to say you have sin in your life to which he vehemently denied and was right there wasn't. Sometimes we go through things for God to test us and God provides the way of escape, that way can be by means of medicine just as well as He can heal without it. Would you advise someone with cancer not to take treatments because God will make a way of escape and yet medical knowledge says take the treatments and we can prolong your life. Or someone who has pnuemonia not taking beathing treatments when the medication will help. The same with a chemical imbalance, the imbalance isn't caused by sin it is caused from something within the body just as most every disease is. Arthritis and Fibromyalgai are not curable but medication treats it the same with most every mental illness caused from a physical condition. Low Dopamine, electrical system not in alignment because of head traauma in the case of epilpsy on and on it can go. Yes some mental illnessess can be from sin just as cancer can be but not all and to label one as such is not biblical. Each case must be dealt with on an individual basis.

 

[Amy.G]

You probably need to set down and read the book of Job. Job admits he sinned as he clearly claims he had to repent. In the beginning he did not see it and made a claim of not having any sin, but after accusing and questioning God and God responded Job saw His sin.

What was Job's sin? Chapter and verse please.

God said:
Job 1
1 There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and that man was blameless, upright, fearing God and turning away from evil.

8 The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil.”

22 Through all this Job did not sin nor did he blame God.

 

[revmwc]

You probably need to set down and read the book of Job. Job admits he sinned as he clearly claims he had to repent. In the beginning he did not see it and made a claim of not having any sin, but after accusing and questioning God and God responded Job saw His sin.

Job's suffering wasn't because he sinned it was a test of his faith and God blessed him because he passed the test. In fact God blessed him with twice what he originally had.

 

[freeatlast]

It does when they say as a pastor friend I once knew who was suffering from cancer, this illness is not from sin in my life. Yet you say to him you must have sin in your life, to which they deny. Job's friend continued to say you have sin in your life to which he vehemently denied and was right there wasn't. Sometimes we go through things for God to test us and God provides the way of escape, that way can be by means of medicine just as well as He can heal without it. Would you advise someone with cancer not to take treatments because God will make a way of escape and yet medical knowledge says take the treatments and we can prolong your life. Or someone who has pnuemonia not taking beathing treatments when the medication will help. The same with a chemical imbalance, the imbalance isn't caused by sin it is caused from something within the body just as most every disease is. Arthritis and Fibromyalgai are not curable but medication treats it the same with most every mental illness caused from a physical condition. Low Dopamine, electrical system not in alignment because of head traauma in the case of epilpsy on and on it can go. Yes some mental illnessess can be from sin just as cancer can be but not all and to label one as such is not biblical. Each case must be dealt with on an individual basis.

Cancer, Arthritis and Fibromyalgia do not cause behavior problems. The heart is where sin lives and the person who sins needs to deal with the heart by confessing and forsaking, not cover it up with drugs.

 

[freeatlast]

Job's suffering wasn't because he sinned it was a test of his faith and God blessed him because he passed the test. In fact God blessed him with twice what he originally had.

I did not say his suffering was because he sinned.

 

[freeatlast]

What was Job's sin? Chapter and verse please.

God said:
Job 1
1 There was a man in the land of Uz whose name was Job; and that man was blameless, upright, fearing God and turning away from evil.

8 The Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered My servant Job? For there is no one like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, fearing God and turning away from evil.”

22 Through all this Job did not sin nor did he blame God.

That was before the test was finished. During his testing he questioned and accused God. Job repented so I would ask you does a person have to repent of things that are not sin?
If you cannot understand how Job sinned then go here;
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_sin_does_job_commits

 

[DHK]

You are suggesting something incorrect. First I do sympathize with them and second I certainly think in those kind of conditions they should take such medication.
And third I also sympathize with the person who has behavior problems caused by sin, but what I do not do is try and convince them their problem is because if a mental illness but rather because of sin which brings on the condition which some in the medical profession is calling mental illness. Those people need to confess and forsake to get past their sin problem.
It would be a lack of sympathy and love if I did not tell them the truth about how we are to deal with problems brought about by sin or if I helped them believe that drugs was the answer.

The condition being referred to is Parkinson's Disease. That is the illness that was being referred to that would cause trembling such that a person could not carry a cup of coffee across a room. This is not a mental illness.

Parkinson's disease is the second most common neurodegenerative disorder and the most common movement disorder. It is characterized by progressive loss of muscle control, which leads to trembling of the limbs and head while at rest, stiffness, slowness, and impaired balance. As symptoms worsen, it may become difficult to walk, talk, and complete simple tasks

http://www.medicinenet.com/parkinsons_disease/article.htm

As you can read it is the most common neurodegenerative disorder.
If you confess your sins, ask forgiveness, that doesn't mean that your nerves will stop degenerating. The Second Law of Thermodynamics is still in operation. We still live under the curse. We wait for the redemption of our bodies. And until that time comes the Lord has given us the intelligence to develop some ways to alleviate the symptoms of some of the illnesses that cannot be cured, as well as cures to heal some of the illnesses that can be remedied. Isn't it wonderful to praise God for the intelligence that he gave us and use it for his glory, rather than to go to a church and glory in the ability to pick up poisonous snakes

 

[freeatlast]

The condition being referred to is Parkinson's Disease. That is the illness that was being referred to that would cause trembling such that a person could not carry a cup of coffee across a room. This is not a mental illness.

http://www.medicinenet.com/parkinsons_disease/article.htm

As you can read it is the most common neurodegenerative disorder.
If you confess your sins, ask forgiveness, that doesn't mean that your nerves will stop degenerating. The Second Law of Thermodynamics is still in operation. We still live under the curse. We wait for the redemption of our bodies. And until that time comes the Lord has given us the intelligence to develop some ways to alleviate the symptoms of some of the illnesses that cannot be cured, as well as cures to heal some of the illnesses that can be remedied. Isn't it wonderful to praise God for the intelligence that he gave us and use it for his glory, rather than to go to a church and glory in the ability to pick up poisonous snakes

I never said someone with shaking (parkinson) needs to confess sin. I said they need to take their drugs.

 

[agedman]

Depression is not always sin, some who are suffering from pain, extreme pain get down and depressed, not because they don't see that God can't get them trhough it but because of the extreme constant pain day after day. Muscles aching, migranes, IBS, ears hurting, constant continuous pain were on a person. They get depressed and irratible, but when their loved ones says I love you and you are important to me, I know you are hurting and I wish I could help that is conforting to them. But what if you said that sin and you need to confess it how much furhter would you drive them to depression and they could possibly hurt themselves. You see the depression from pain isn't the sin taking medicine to help relieve the pain and help them sleep through the night isn't sin. Sin would be reacting by hurting themsleves even more. We don't help them by laying a heavy guilt trip on them, we help them by showing the Love that God shows us and we help them through it, if drugs can help calm the syptoms of the physical pain that is causing the mood then we need to encouragethem to get the relief they need and not condemning them as some bad person because of their suffeering. We become sinners by judging them because we have a mote in our eye when we want to remove the spec from theirs.

Can depression be sin yes is it always no it depends on what brings it on. Deprssion in feeling sorry for ones self is sin, depression because one is constantly in pain and tired of hurting is a totally different thing.

Perhaps what some call depression is not clinical depression.

Depression and pain are not inseparable. Chronic pain is certainly magnified by depression. But, they are not joined and inseparable.

What must be kept in "mind" is that pain (particularly chronic pain) that is not treated properly can "wear" on the emotional state and more than merely feelings of sadness can result. Professionals separate the general feelings of being overwhelmed or sadness from actual clinical depression.

Clinical depression must be treated with appropriate counsel that may have medication as a supplement. Medication in isolation is never a good idea.

The Godly counsel will aid the chronic pain victim in "pigeon holing" what is physical from what is emotional and spiritual.

In doing so, the chronic pain sufferer will be able to recognize the depression as not sinful in itself, but manifesting attributes of sin such as anger, self centeredness, selfishness, and unbridled tongue. Other manifestations may also occur.

Perhaps what some call depression is not clinical depression.

 

[freeatlast]

Perhaps what some call depression is not clinical depression.

Depression and pain are not inseparable. Chronic pain is certainly magnified by depression. But, they are not joined and inseparable.

What must be kept in "mind" is that pain (particularly chronic pain) that is not treated properly can "wear" on the emotional state and more than merely feelings of sadness can result. Professionals separate the general feelings of being overwhelmed or sadness from actual clinical depression.

Clinical depression must be treated with appropriate counsel that may have medication as a supplement. Medication in isolation is never a good idea.

The Godly counsel will aid the chronic pain victim in "pigeon holing" what is physical from what is emotional and spiritual.

In doing so, the chronic pain sufferer will be able to recognize the depression as not sinful in itself, but manifesting attributes of sin such as anger, self centeredness, selfishness, and unbridled tongue. Other manifestations may also occur.

Perhaps what some call depression is not clinical depression.

So are you saying that " manifesting attributes of sin such as anger, self centeredness, selfishness, and unbridled tongue" are not always sin?

 

[agedman]

So are you saying that " manifesting attributes of sin such as anger, self centeredness, selfishness, and unbridled tongue" are not always sin?

No, that isn't what I posted.

 

[freeatlast]

No, that isn't what I posted.

Sorry if I miss-understood that is why I asked. What does what you said mean? It is sin but they are not the one responsible or something else?

 

[agedman]

Sorry if I miss-understood that is why I asked. What does what you said mean? It is sin but they are not the one responsible or something else?

What I stated, "In doing so, the chronic pain sufferer will be able to recognize the depression as not sinful in itself, but manifesting attributes of sin such as anger, self centeredness, selfishness, and unbridled tongue. Other manifestations may also occur."

There is no scripture that states, "Thou shalt not be depressed."

Many of the characters in the Scriptures went through depression and depressing times, some like Elijah, ran and hid then bemoaned.

Did Elijah sin? If he did, there isn't any account of his confession.

Can the manifestations of being depressed result in sin? Yes. The same as wrath and anger in them self is not a sin, but the unbridled tongue spewing blasphemies is a sin.

James made the same distinction when talking of lust.

Jas 1:13 - 16

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it brings forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren.​

It is the same with every elemental condition of human kind.

 

[padredurand]

FAL, do you drink coffee, tea, Coke or eat chocolate?

 

[freeatlast]

What I stated, "In doing so, the chronic pain sufferer will be able to recognize the depression as not sinful in itself, but manifesting attributes of sin such as anger, self centeredness, selfishness, and unbridled tongue. Other manifestations may also occur."

There is no scripture that states, "Thou shalt not be depressed."

Many of the characters in the Scriptures went through depression and depressing times, some like Elijah, ran and hid then bemoaned.

Did Elijah sin? If he did, there isn't any account of his confession.

Can the manifestations of being depressed result in sin? Yes. The same as wrath and anger in them self is not a sin, but the unbridled tongue spewing blasphemies is a sin.

James made the same distinction when talking of lust.

Jas 1:13 - 16

Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempts he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it brings forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, brings forth death. Do not err, my beloved brethren.
​

It is the same with every elemental condition of human kind.

Here is my contention based on scripture. There is no scripture that says thou shalt not be an alcoholic either buy alcoholism is sin, not a disease or mental illness, run wild and I contend is also sin. The person plays with sin and then they get trapped into that sin. The same with what is being discussed here about behavior issues and mental illness. Sadly we do not really believe we are as bad as the bible try's to paint us. We believe we can have good hearts when the bible says other wise and if not totally good at least some good.
Jere 17:9
The heart [is] deceitful above all [things], and desperately wicked: who can know it?
ISA 64:6
But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Depression never comes on anyone without an emotional cause. Sadness, anger, remorse, sorrow, or many other things. While those things are not necessarily sin in themselves if clung to they can become sin and depression is spawned. Every single instance in the scriptures where anyone had depression they had sin before that, every time.
To suggest that we can become ill mentally and then it leads us into uncontrollable sin is simply not found in scripture. The reverse is always the pattern and always requires confession and forsaking, not drugs

 

[freeatlast]

FAL, do you drink coffee, tea, Coke or eat chocolate?

No I do not, why?

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Unless you are a neurologist and an expert at reading MRI's you are not qualified to make such judgments. I suggest you keep quiet on the subject.

Amen! It is a fact that the human mind can be injured and change the personality. It is also a fact that we are a delicate balance of chemicals. If the mix goes awry, we can see atypical behaviors as a result. This is a medical issue, not a spiritual one.

John, all the best to you. Don't give a care about ignorant people. They will never be swayed, as they are not willing to learn. Their minds are made up. Treat yourself well. You are worth it.

MP

 

[annsni]

Just so were not talking past each other:
"Stressful situations" are not sin, if that is what is meant by stress.
"Stressed-out" is sin.
So goes the expression: "Why worry when you can pray."

But since Jesus was so stressed that He sweat blood, I'd say being "stressed out" might not always be a sin. When I worked for the Red Cross Disaster Team, you bet I got stressed out. But it was not a sinful stress, it was just a stress of being overwhelmed by the task before me like when I worked the Flight 800 crash. My response to the stress could have been sinful - being angry, being hostile to the workers around me - or it could have been not-sinful and just come out in me as a growl then a working towards the massive goal I had before me. Yes, I prayed - oh goodness, did I pray a lot - but it didn't stop the worry and concern I had about the men working the crash site and the stress on them and the worry for the families who were experiencing probably the most difficult time in their lives.

So I'd say being "stressed out" could be a sin but not always.