Featured What is your definition of foreknowledge and...

Why thank you for telling me this, but I do. Maybe not near as much as I should, but I do. I just don't come at it from the bent angle that Calvinism brings to the scriptures.

I already addressed this with you previously, and you flatly denied what I typed, so I won't waste my and your's time in addressing something I know you won't accept.


Listen, what I am about to type IS NOT directed @ my Calvinistic Brethern, but at their Calvinistic system.


Calvinism does nothing but muddy the water. Take John 3:16 for instance. It says that God so loved the world, but Calvinism states the elect of the world, when God's Word doesn't. When John the Baptist stated, "Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world,"(John 1:29) again, Calvinism inserts the sin of the elect was placed upon Jesus, and no one else. Romans 5:6 states that Christ died for the ungodly, and true to form, Calvinism bends it to make it say the elect of the ungodly only. Romans 3:23 states that all have sinned. If all have sinned then all were ungodly, so Christ tasted death for every man(Hebrews 2:9), and again, Calvinism bends it in an attempt to state otherwise. This is why I don't adhere to Calvinism. It speaks when not spoken to, it walks where there is no ground, it swims when there is no water, and any other hyperbole I could think of.

Again, please don't take this as a personal jab at my Calvinistic Brethern, but at the system only.

 

In Exodus 12, who was the the sacrificial lamb for? In Leviticus 16, whose sins were placed upon the goat, who Aaron placed both his hands upon?

 

It matters not what John had in mind as it does what Jesus had in mind since Jesus is the one actually speaking to Nicodemus. Also, according to your view Jesus' use of "the world", "whosoever", and "he that believeth" would all have point to some very specific limited understanding of who Jesus is talking about. This seems a stretch from what Nicodemus would reasonably understand in his conversation with Jesus. Why should I expect that Nicodemus left that night with the understanding that you have? I find no support for this whatsoever, however, it seems perfectly reasonable that Nicodemus understood Jesus as meaning anyone in the world with no qualifications.

 

Tell me...why didn't John say elect, believers, etc instead of world?

Your reasoning reminds me of satan's reply to Eve "did He really say...".

The hoops one needs to jump through is amazing.

 

If one takes what you write literally it would mean Universal Salvation.

 

All men, the world is the dead sinning world, the heathens. That He sent His Son. Jesus came to save sinners which I am, the worst. The world is not limited not that they will be saved that He loved them that He sent His.
The saved goes on the next sentence whosoever believes they are the elect.

I pray for the sinners if men ever get a hold of the word of God and change the inspired word of God to men’s own understanding.

If the Holy Spirit meant nations, tribes, tongues, families, etc.? He would of said it.

"My love of consistency with my own doctrinal views is not great enough to allow me knowingly to alter a single text of Scripture. I have great respect for orthodoxy, but my reverence for inspiration is far greater"

C.H Spurgeon

 

No it wouldn't. Only in your theological construct.

 

He did...he said the world. Pretty broad and encompassing. He goes even further in referencing whole world. Nothing inclusive about that at all.

I disagree. I believe you are reading it with your presupposition already built in.

Eisegesis is not a missional reading of Scripture. It is a faulty one.

 

I agree WD! That is the only way that one could come away with such an understanding. We need to come to the text with the context in mind. This was a conversation between Nick and Jesus. Jesus clearly communicated to Nick and There is no reason to think that Nick walked away with the understanding of a calvinistic doctrine... That just seems so obvious. Please Cals, show me how Nick would have understood it as you say you understand it. This is just rediculous.

 

Hebrews 2:9
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

John 1:29
Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world,

If Jesus Christ "tasted death for every man", if He "takes away the sins of the world" then why is salvation not universal?

 

Do you read much besides your own? There's theological explanation for this at your fingertips, should be easy to find. The atonement is available to all and to those who don't believe, not putting their trust in Christ, the blood will not go to waste. It will indeed be a testimony against them for had the provision not been made then there would be no reason for them to come to Him. Your claim is like me saying that your voicing to people everywhere should be, "Come to Jesus, while the odds are against it, perhaps there is atonement for you!"

I ask you, if Jesus Christ "tasted death for every man", if He "takes away the sins of the world" then how can that be so?

 

I see we are on page eight and no discussion of the topic, the meaning of foreknow and foreknowledge is occurring because once again the Calvinists are talking about everything and anything except the scriptures using those two words.

If Calvinism could be defended from scripture, they would post scripture, but instead we have one assertion after another.

 

Luke 17
Jesus Heals Ten Men With Leprosy

11 Now on his way to Jerusalem, Jesus traveled along the border between Samaria and Galilee. 12 As he was going into a village, ten men who had leprosy[The Greek word traditionally translated leprosy was used for various diseases affecting the skin.] met him. They stood at a distance 13 and called out in a loud voice, “Jesus, Master, have pity on us!”
14 When he saw them, he said, “Go, show yourselves to the priests.” And as they went, they were cleansed.
15 One of them, when he saw he was healed, came back, praising God in a loud voice. 16 He threw himself at Jesus’ feet and thanked him—and he was a Samaritan.
17 Jesus asked, “Were not all ten cleansed? Where are the other nine? 18 Has no one returned to give praise to God except this foreigner?” 19 Then he said to him, “Rise and go; your faith has made you well.”


Hosea 6:
6 For I desire mercy, not sacrifice,
and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.

Psalm 73:28
But it is good for me to draw near to God: I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, that I may declare all thy works.

Romans 4 :
4 Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

James 2:14
[ Faith and Deeds ] What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?



God didn't give us a Spirit of fear,fearing that everything we do is earning our salvation instead of praising God and acknowledging what He has done.

Faith without deeds is dead, that we should be walking in the new life acknowledging God and what He has done, not what we have done.

 

When are the names written in the Lamb's book of life? Before the foundation of the world as Calvinism claims, or from the foundation of the world as found in scripture?

So the very verses posted demonstrate our names are written in the Book of Life from or after the foundation of the world. Calvinism has once again referred to a verse saying the exact opposite of what they claim.

Yet another fiction from the falsehood collection of Calvinism. When are we enrolled in heaven? When we are saved, i.e when we are made perfect by being spiritually placed in Christ. Hebrews 12:23

In summary, names are written from the foundation of the world and this period starts at creation and extends to the end of the age. We are individually enrolled in heaven when we are spiritually placed in Christ, and thus made perfect.
The claim of Calvinism, names written before the foundation of the world, has been shown to be refuted by the very scriptures cited.

 

My comment to convicted1's post #61 was that if the above Scripture and associated verbiage were taken literally it would mean universal salvation. [My post #67]

You responded as follows:

In followup you wrote:

Besides my own what??

Noted and filed!

Given your theological aptitude can you support the above with Scripture?

Your last two sentences are contradictory. Apparently you are chasing your tail. Of course perhaps the statement of Festus to the Apostle Paul is also applicable to you.

Acts 26:24. Paul, thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad.