Featured SBC President Moves to Quell Firestorm

he did not say that they could not, just that he was not sure if they could!

Classic doublespeak methinks!

 

I agree, but when phrased this way: WHAT ULTIMATELY DETERMINES whether a person will accept the gospel Message or not? There are only 2 answers:
-God's choice
-Man's Choice

That's what all the fighting is about. If there is a third, I'd be interested to hear it.

 

:laugh:

 

So you're a determinist when it comes to everything or just salvation?

 

Your post reminds me of a statement:

"If we had some ham we could have ham and eggs, if we had some eggs."

Is Jesus God or man?

Without God we could not be saved. Without us there would be no one for God to save.

Man responds to God's initiation of grace through the conviction of the Holy Spirit. Isn't both/and a proper response?

 

I'm just saying that it is the issue of Election, choice, predestination; where they real divide is. It is true to say there are varying positions...but the dividing line is the issue of "Does God draw all people the same, and thier responses are their own un-effected choice? OR..."Would all naturally reject God unless he chooses and calls certain people and changes their will to choose him"?

This is where the real dividing line is. Both sides recognize this, and the other discussions we have are only periphery.

 

I actually agree with you...I'm saying how you answer the question "Ultimately" determine's whose side you are in the debate.

The third option, which I may be close to is: "the bible says God chose me, It also says I must choose God. I believe both."

But...since I refuse to deny that God chose/predestined me to salvation before the foundation of the earth, and I will be called a calvinist; no matter what else I say.

 

OR, might I suggest that a more "acceptable and gracious" manner to communicate such is to preface as ......" I believe you to be incorrect, or I am convinced that you are not correct here"

Just a suggestion, made with absolutely zero rancor.

 

Or one could simply say "I disagree and here is why".

 

Why is it both sides keep quoting this theolgean or that theolgean, and what their opinion is? Isn't the Holy Spirit in each of us? Did not God give us all a brain to think? A Bible to read? Who cares what Mohler thinks, White thinks, or the clowns that wrote the document.

People employed by the upper levels of the SBC pretty much sit around in an office collecting money without making a difference. They have no governing authority, basically just fluff. Each local church is autonomous, and each local church treats the B F and M as they please or are lead. Some of you act like the Baptist faith is a hierarchy.

 

They act like it because they wish it was. These are people who like to control others. They think you can't be Baptist unless you agree with them. I say that people like this have no clue about Baptist history and principles.

 

How about the oft quoted one of while entering thru the gateway to heaven, we read "whosoever wills may come", while upon entering and looking back, see posted" chosen in christ before the foundation of the World"...

think that you have hit the dividing line here...

Botom line is on WHAT basis are we saved?
By the Cross of Christ, and God election towards us by his will and grace and mercy alone

or by us accepting jesus by faith, and God basing our salvation on that he knew what we would choose "free willingly' to do!

 

Thanks! I appreciate the comment. However, I have yet to see those I call "freewillers" use this gracious rhetoric you suggest when addressing those who believe the Doctrine of Grace!

That being said the remarks of some on this forum regarding my use of the word wrong are hypocritical in the extreme and they know who they are. The thread "Al Mohler's response to SBC Statement" was closed early, I assume because of the vitriol expressed by some of these people.

 

Yes to both, as I don't think they are inherently contradictory. Difficult to reconcile perhaps...but this might be a false dichotomy as all of the above are (taken at face value) Scriptural.