Why Arminianism can rot your bones

[evangelist6589]

There are those that post here that call me an Arminian because I am dispensationalist and do not hold to the doctrine of Limited Atonement. Other than these 2 areas I am mostly on board with the Calvinist interpretations. The last 2 nights I have listened to a podcast of a certain leader whom has made me want to croak. When he has spoken of a theology of work, everything he has suggested has come from secular material and virtually nothing from the Bible. All his advice seems to be from secular sources and very very little of what he says seems to be from scripture. Perhaps this leader is in ignorance of his ways, and or these doctrines. Many Arminian churches are man centered and not Bible centered in their evangelism and teachings. I suggest people with discernment to stay away from Arminian or man centered sermons & books.

 

[12strings]

Mmm...this should be fun.

 

[Arbo]

Mmm...this should be fun.

Get your spurs on! :laugh:

 

[Yeshua1]

There are those that post here that call me an Arminian because I am dispensationalist and do not hold to the doctrine of Limited Atonement. Other than these 2 areas I am mostly on board with the Calvinist interpretations. The last 2 nights I have listened to a podcast of a certain leader whom has made me want to croak. When he has spoken of a theology of work, everything he has suggested has come from secular material and virtually nothing from the Bible. All his advice seems to be from secular sources and very very little of what he says seems to be from scripture. Perhaps this leader is in ignorance of his ways, and or these doctrines. Many Arminian churches are man centered and not Bible centered in their evangelism and teachings. I suggest people with discernment to stay away from Arminian or man centered sermons & books.

i am a 4 point calvinist, who also holds to a Dispy view on scriptures!

Some of the Cals see me as not "quite cal, cal lite", while some reformed see no way can mix Dispy with DoG!

think that there are good arminian theology writers, just have to learn to sift their material, and keep smiling while reading their views on salvation...

Think norman Geisler systematic theology would be a good starting point for you to read a "classical" baptist arminian!

 

[drfuss]

There are those that post here that call me an Arminian because I am dispensationalist and do not hold to the doctrine of Limited Atonement. Other than these 2 areas I am mostly on board with the Calvinist interpretations. The last 2 nights I have listened to a podcast of a certain leader whom has made me want to croak. When he has spoken of a theology of work, everything he has suggested has come from secular material and virtually nothing from the Bible. All his advice seems to be from secular sources and very very little of what he says seems to be from scripture. Perhaps this leader is in ignorance of his ways, and or these doctrines. Many Arminian churches are man centered and not Bible centered in their evangelism and teachings. I suggest people with discernment to stay away from Arminian or man centered sermons & books.

This is so typical of how some Christians tend to misrepresent other Christian's beliefs. The OP listened to one person, who the OP classified as an Arminian; and broad brushed one person's beliefs to represent many Arminians.

An effective debating method is to misrepresent what others believe and then criticize them for their misrepresented belief. It is effective if you can get away with it.

I agree that Norman Geisler would be good place for the OP to start learning. However, keep in mind that even Norman Geisler does not represent all Arminians.

 

[evangelist6589]

i am a 4 point calvinist, who also holds to a Dispy view on scriptures!

Some of the Cals see me as not "quite cal, cal lite", while some reformed see no way can mix Dispy with DoG!

think that there are good arminian theology writers, just have to learn to sift their material, and keep smiling while reading their views on salvation...

Think norman Geisler systematic theology would be a good starting point for you to read a "classical" baptist arminian!

You know I should have mentioned that in my post, my mistake. I have plenty of books by Arminian and like some of the more evidential apologist authors such as Geisler, Hanegraaf, and Erwin Lutzer. Lutzer is a calvinist but uses evidential apologetics. My problem was the person speaking last night on my iphone. He was most definitely advocating very man centered methods to success.

 

[evangelist6589]

This is so typical of how some Christians tend to misrepresent other Christian's beliefs. The OP listened to one person, who the OP classified as an Arminian; and broad brushed one person's beliefs to represent many Arminians.

An effective debating method is to misrepresent what others believe and then criticize them for their misrepresented belief. It is effective if you can get away with it.

I agree that Norman Geisler would be good place for the OP to start learning. However, keep in mind that even Norman Geisler does not represent all Arminians.

You are right. I made a mistake. I tried to edit the post but I think it is too late. I did broad brush which I should not have. I did not like the person whom I have listened too on my iphone when he spoke of finding a job, finding success in a career and such. All his book recommendations were from some very secular sources, and authors whom try and combine bible verses + secular wisdom. Not everything this speaker/author says is bad, but in some areas no question. I am familiar with Geisler and own 3 of his books. He is a scholar no doubt.

 

[Yeshua1]

This is so typical of how some Christians tend to misrepresent other Christian's beliefs. The OP listened to one person, who the OP classified as an Arminian; and broad brushed one person's beliefs to represent many Arminians.

An effective debating method is to misrepresent what others believe and then criticize them for their misrepresented belief. It is effective if you can get away with it.

I agree that Norman Geisler would be good place for the OP to start learning. However, keep in mind that even Norman Geisler does not represent all Arminians.

think good balance would be him and get the theology of say millard erickson, as would get a good broadstream of arm/cal theology, and both quote other views often!

 

[Amy.G]

Who were you listening to so we can avoid him?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

There are those that post here that call me an Arminian because I am dispensationalist and do not hold to the doctrine of Limited Atonement. Other than these 2 areas I am mostly on board with the Calvinist interpretations. The last 2 nights I have listened to a podcast of a certain leader whom has made me want to croak. When he has spoken of a theology of work, everything he has suggested has come from secular material and virtually nothing from the Bible. All his advice seems to be from secular sources and very very little of what he says seems to be from scripture. Perhaps this leader is in ignorance of his ways, and or these doctrines. Many Arminian churches are man centered and not Bible centered in their evangelism and teachings. I suggest people with discernment to stay away from Arminian or man centered sermons & books.

Of course you believe in a limited atonement:smilewinkgrin:

 

[evangelist6589]

think good balance would be him and get the theology of say millard erickson, as would get a good broadstream of arm/cal theology, and both quote other views often!

I have Erickson's systematic theology. He is a Historic Premill person.

 

[evangelist6589]

Of course you believe in a limited atonement:smilewinkgrin:

No I dont!! Hebrews 2:9 states that Christ should taste death for everyman. 2 Pet 2:1 says “denying the Lord that bought them.

But this is Off topic for this thread.

 

[evangelist6589]

Who were you listening to so we can avoid him?

Dave Ramsey is a financial genius and is very dynamic. However when he starts to recommend books to buy for career changes, he recommends books with lots of humanism, psyco-babble, & secular self-help books. Some examples.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0982986270/?tag=baptis04-20

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0470485884/?tag=baptis04-20

His entire view is rooted in arminian thought & secular humanism.

 

[12strings]

Dave Ramsey...
His entire view is rooted in arminian thought & secular humanism.

Just to clarify:

1. Do you believe Arminian thought and secular humanism to be the same thing? If so, you need to study a bit more.

2. I would not go to Dave Ramsey for spiritual advice, only financial... but I doubt he is a secular humanist.

 

[Van]

Lets see, we should have a holier than thou attitude when it come to those who lean Arminian, because their theology is man-centered. Sounds a lot like the standard Calvinist ad homenim argument, not based on theology but based on bashing those who disagree with Calvinism. Thread after thread repeats the the tune, "I am so glad I am not like those ignorant, arrogant dim-wits."

We are to be intolerant of false teachers, but evidence, not innuendo should be presented, all these generalized assertions seem to me as just bad mouthing the other guy.

For example, the Arminian view that we put ourselves in Christ automatically when we believe in Christ, and therefore can also put ourselves out of Christ (forfeiting our salvation) by deciding to withdraw out faith in Christ seems "man-centered." But does this view actually represent the Arminian view or is it a Calvinist mischaracterization?

 

[Yeshua1]

Of course you believe in a limited atonement:smilewinkgrin:

If you think about this logically...

Aren't all of us holding to "limited atonement?" in that only a limited number will have their sins forgiven and saved by the atonememnt regardless wether arm/cal/non cal?

if not limited in extent, then options would be Universalism, or else sinners atoned still going to hell?

 

[Van]

Yes, but if you think about it logically, you do not allow the "Christ did not die for all mankind" Calvinism definition of limited atonement to masquerade as referring to the fact only a few receive the reconciliation provided by Christ's sacrifice on the cross. Just saying...

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, but if you think about it logically, you do not allow the "Christ did not die for all mankind" Calvinism definition of limited atonement to masquerade as referring to the fact only a few receive the reconciliation provided by Christ's sacrifice on the cross. Just saying...

Not all will get saved, nor desire to be saved, so still the truth is that we all hold to a limited atonement view!

 

[evangelist6589]

Just to clarify:

1. Do you believe Arminian thought and secular humanism to be the same thing? If so, you need to study a bit more.

2. I would not go to Dave Ramsey for spiritual advice, only financial... but I doubt he is a secular humanist.

Of coarse not.

 

[Van]

Not all will get saved, nor desire to be saved, so still the truth is that we all hold to a limited atonement view!

No we do not all hold that Christ did not die for all mankind. Now we do all hold that only a limited group "receives the reconciliation" available to all mankind, but that is a far cry from the hidden doctrine you are pushing deceptively. Just look at it logically.

The Arminian view that we put ourselves in Christ automatically when we believe in Christ, and therefore can also put ourselves out of Christ (forfeiting our salvation) by deciding to withdraw out faith in Christ seems "man-centered." But does this view actually represent the Arminian view or is it a Calvinist mischaracterization?