What Did jesus mean" Upon This Rock, I Will Build my Church?"

[The Biblicist]

You say “So what!” to the fact that Jesus was speaking!

I am saying it does not matter whether Jesus or Paul or some other inspired writer said it - IT IS TRUE NEVERTHELESS! The fact that Christ said it should make it even more acceptable to you!

JESUS REBUKED NICODEMUS FOR NOT UNDERSTANDING AND KNOWING ABOUT THE SCRIPTURES THAT WERE TO BE FULFILLED.

You will say anything to avoid the truth of scripture! ANYTHING!

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

Nicodemus is not asking HOW CAN THESE PROPHECIES BE FULFILLED!!!!!! Because Jesus NEVER said a thing about any kind of prophecy! He is asking how can "THESE THINGS" or the THINGS OF THE NEW BIRTH as that is the immediate context - that is what Jesus had been talking about - that is what Nicodemus had specifically been asking about - that is what Nicodemus had been listening to!

Jesus did not PROPHESY and say SOME DAY IN THE FUTURE you need to be born again! Look at the tense "Ye must be born again" in verse 7. The term translated "must" is PRESENT TENSE! Not future tense!

Why don't you just write your own Bible and make it say what you like because that is precisely how you interpret the scriptures - twisting it to fit what you like.

 

[Moriah]

I am saying it does not matter whether Jesus or Paul or some other inspired writer said it - IT IS TRUE NEVERTHELESS! The fact that Christ said it should make it even more acceptable to you!

You speak irrelevant nonsense.

You will say anything to avoid the truth of scripture! ANYTHING!

That is a description of YOU. Be careful how you judge, for it is what you are guilty.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

Nicodemus is not asking HOW CAN THESE PROPHECIES BE FULFILLED!!!!!! Because Jesus NEVER said a thing about any kind of prophecy! He is asking how can "THESE THINGS" or the THINGS OF THE NEW BIRTH as that is the immediate context - that is what Jesus had been talking about - that is what Nicodemus had specifically been asking about - that is what Nicodemus had been listening to!

No matter how you try to twist it, it is still the truth, that no one is made perfect unless they go through Jesus, AFTER JESUS SHED HIS BLOOD ON THE CROSS, and AFTER ONE BELIEVES IN THE GOSPEL.

God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect. Hebrews 11:40.

Jesus did not PROPHESY and say SOME DAY IN THE FUTURE you need to be born again! Look at the tense "Ye must be born again" in verse 7. The term translated "must" is PRESENT TENSE! Not future tense!

Again, NNE, NNE, is made perfect UNTIL they go through THE BLOOD OF CHRIST, WHICH WAS SHED ON THE CROSS.

Why don't you just write your own Bible and make it say what you like because that is precisely how you interpret the scriptures - twisting it to fit what you like.

I only believe in God’s Truth. You however, you do not have to rewrite the Bible to say what you want it to, for your false teachers already did that, and in their false beliefs, you rely.

 

[The Biblicist]

No matter how you try to twist it, it is still the truth, that no one is made perfect unless they go through Jesus, AFTER JESUS SHED HIS BLOOD ON THE CROSS, and AFTER ONE BELIEVES IN THE GOSPEL.

Why the moderators let you remain on this forum is a mystery to me. You never deal with scripture honestly or objectively. You simply ignore, dismiss, or pervert every scripture text that contradicts your absolute nonsense!

Of course, when a person deals with scripture like you do they can prove anything they like and disprove anything they dislike and that is precisely how you operate and shall operate until God gives you spiritual ability to see.

 

[Moriah]

Read in Hebrews about all the people of the OLD TESTAMENT who had been righteous because of their FAITH. Start reading from Hebrews 4 starting with ABEL, then go to Hebrews 11:32.

Hebrews 11:32 And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel and the prophets, 33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions,34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies. 35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again.Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection. 36 Some faced jeers and flogging,while still others were chained and put in prison. 37 They were stoned; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated— 38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground.
39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised. 40 God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

DID YOU READ THAT? “THESE WERE ALL COMMENDED FOR THEIR FAITH, YET NONE OF THEM RECEIVED WHAT HAD BEEN PROMISED. GOD PLANNED SOMETHING BETTER FOR US SO THAT ONLY TOGETHER WITH US WOULD THEY BE MADE PERFECT.
NOW, READ HEBREWS 12:1.

Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us. 2 Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 Consider him who endured such opposition from sinful men, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.

PAUL SAID THEY ARE SURROUNDED BY A GREAT CLOUD OF WITNESSES, THE WITNESSES ARE THE SPIRITS OF THE RIGHTEOUS MEN AND WOMEN, THE SPIRITS OF THOSE PEOPLE.

THEN PAUL SAYS, “LET US FIX OUR EYES ON JESUS, THE AUTHOR AND PERFECTER OF OUR FAITH…”

You not only teach untruths that Gentiles and all other people were God’s people in the Old Testaments times, but you also teach the untruth that no one had to wait for anything, that Jesus’ blood was as good as shed in their minds when they looked to the future.

 

[Moriah]

Why the moderators let you remain on this forum is a mystery to me. You never deal with scripture honestly or objectively. You simply ignore, dismiss, or pervert every scripture text that contradicts your absolute nonsense!

Of course, when a person deals with scripture like you do they can prove anything they like and disprove anything they dislike and that is precisely how you operate and shall operate until God gives you spiritual ability to see.

You speak untruths. You STILL have not dealt with the scriptures proving that you are wrong about the Gentiles in the Old Testament. You only grab a scripture from somewhere else, a scripture that you do not understand but believe it supports your false beliefs; you think grabbing scriptures in reply to scriptures can nullify the first scripture!

 

[The Biblicist]

Read in Hebrews .[/B]

Reading it does no good unless you understand what you read and YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND what you read. I have explained Hebrews to you. DHK has explained it to you and it goes right over your head.

You simply pick and choose what YOU want to believe in Hebrews. You don't recognize Hebrews 2:1 and the "common salvation" that was preached to all Old Testament saints (Heb. 4:2) as it is to us! You don't understand Hebrews 10:1-4 that teaches the Old Testament sacrifices and law keeping never took away sins but only faith (heb. 11) in the gospel (Heb. 4:2) under the "EVERLASTING covenant" (Heb. 13:20) does that.

You don't understand that the change of public administrators (Heb. 8-9) does not mean that "works" and "grace" was limited to Israel and the church but preceded them both in the Old Testament record between Gensis 3 to Genesis 48 as the "EVERLASTING covenant" was never limited but always in effect from Genesis to Revelation (Rom. 3:25-26).

You don't understand that the public RATIFICATION of either covenants did not deny the principle of justification by works versus grace from the garden of Eden until Revelation 20. You think that without public ratification of either covenant that the principles of grace versus works could not exist and therefore neither could the benefits of the "EVERLASTING covenant" exist before its public ratification! Perhaps you need to reconsider the meaning of "EVERLASTING covenant" because you restrict the benefits of the EVERLASTING covenant to the public ratification of that covenant on the cross when its benefits were applied from the foundation of the world by faith.

Instead you reject the EVERLASTING covenant of grace and teach works for salvation.

 

[Moriah]

Reading it does no good unless you understand what you read and YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND what you read. I have explained Hebrews to you. DHK has explained it to you and it goes right over your head.

You simply pick and choose what YOU want to believe in Hebrews. You don't recognize Hebrews 2:1 and the "common salvation" that was preached to all Old Testament saints (Heb. 4:2) as it is to us! You don't understand Hebrews 10:1-4 that teaches the Old Testament sacrifices and law keeping never took away sins but only faith (heb. 11) in the gospel (Heb. 4:2) under the "EVERLASTING covenant" (Heb. 13:20) does that.

You don't understand that the change of public administrators (Heb. 8-9) does not mean that "works" and "grace" was limited to Israel and the church but preceded them both in the Old Testament record between Gensis 3 to Genesis 48 as the "EVERLASTING covenant" was never limited but always in effect from Genesis to Revelation (Rom. 3:25-26).

You don't understand that the public RATIFICATION of either covenants did not deny the principle of justification by works versus grace from the garden of Eden until Revelation 20. You think that without public ratification of either covenant that the principles of grace versus works could not exist and therefore neither could the benefits of the "EVERLASTING covenant" exist before its public ratification! Perhaps you need to reconsider the meaning of "EVERLASTING covenant" because you restrict the benefits of the EVERLASTING covenant to the public ratification of that covenant on the cross when its benefits were applied from the foundation of the world by faith.

Instead you reject the EVERLASTING covenant of grace and teach works for salvation.

I understand Biblicists false doctrines.

Let the Reader be aware, Biblicist did what I said he does, he ignores the scriptures I brought up, Hebrews 11:4 to Hebrews 12:1, then he grabs scriptures from different places and tries to nullify Hebrews 11:4 to 12:1 with it.

Then he goes on and tries to darken the conversation with many personal attacks against me, as if it helps make him look right and me wrong. He also overcrowds the posts with many nonsense explanations from false teachers he collected over the many years, teachings that got him further from the Truth.

 

[Moriah]

The Jews were God’s people.

Romans 9:4 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises.

The Gentiles were EXCLUDED and WITHOUT God in the world.

See Ephesians 2:12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

The Gentiles were not included until Jesus shed his blood on the cross.

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

The Gentiles were once far off from God, but now brought near through the gospel.

Acts 2:39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call."

Ephesians 2:17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near.

Only through Jesus’ shed blood are we made perfect, those living now, and those who lived and died before Jesus came and died.

Colossians 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

I have not spoken lies as Biblicist would like you to believe.

 

[Yeshua1]

Reading it does no good unless you understand what you read and YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND what you read. I have explained Hebrews to you. DHK has explained it to you and it goes right over your head.

You simply pick and choose what YOU want to believe in Hebrews. You don't recognize Hebrews 2:1 and the "common salvation" that was preached to all Old Testament saints (Heb. 4:2) as it is to us! You don't understand Hebrews 10:1-4 that teaches the Old Testament sacrifices and law keeping never took away sins but only faith (heb. 11) in the gospel (Heb. 4:2) under the "EVERLASTING covenant" (Heb. 13:20) does that.

You don't understand that the change of public administrators (Heb. 8-9) does not mean that "works" and "grace" was limited to Israel and the church but preceded them both in the Old Testament record between Gensis 3 to Genesis 48 as the "EVERLASTING covenant" was never limited but always in effect from Genesis to Revelation (Rom. 3:25-26).

You don't understand that the public RATIFICATION of either covenants did not deny the principle of justification by works versus grace from the garden of Eden until Revelation 20. You think that without public ratification of either covenant that the principles of grace versus works could not exist and therefore neither could the benefits of the "EVERLASTING covenant" exist before its public ratification! Perhaps you need to reconsider the meaning of "EVERLASTING covenant" because you restrict the benefits of the EVERLASTING covenant to the public ratification of that covenant on the cross when its benefits were applied from the foundation of the world by faith.

Instead you reject the EVERLASTING covenant of grace and teach works for salvation.

many hold that the Gospel of Grace was/is under the new Covevant, whemn the lamb of god shed his blood as an atonement for the sins of those who would be saved...

that though the principle of saved by faith and grace alone was always the method that god used, those before yeshua were living before the Age of the coming o fthe Holy Spirit as he did upon the Church at pentacost...

just saying that there is more than a single view on all of this held by Christians!

 

[The Biblicist]

I understand Biblicists false doctrines.

Let the Reader be aware, Biblicist did what I said he does, he ignores the scriptures I brought up, Hebrews 11:4 to Hebrews 12:1, then he grabs scriptures from different places and tries to nullify Hebrews 11:4 to 12:1 with it.

Then he goes on and tries to darken the conversation with many personal attacks against me, as if it helps make him look right and me wrong. He also overcrowds the posts with many nonsense explanations from false teachers he collected over the many years, teachings that got him further from the Truth.

Heb. 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

It does little good to point out scriptures to you as you cannot see or understand what you read. However, perhaps you can see the underlined bold "the promise" singular and then it explained in the larger size bold underlined "made perfert."

Beginning with the UNCIRCUMCISED but saved/justfied GENTILE Abel, these were all JUSTIFIED by faith like Abraham, SAVED, BORN AGAIN and when they died they went to heaven as demonstrated by Heb. 12:1,25.

However, what they did not receive was "THE PROMISE" singular which was the end of their faith or the HOPE realized in the resurrection when they are "MADE PERFECT" or receive a body without sin . This is what they will receive at the resurrection "WITH US" yet in the future when they come FROM heaven with Christ (1 Thes. 4:14-17).

They had FULL SALVATION by the SAME GOSPEL as we do (Heb. 4:2) and shared in one COMMON SALVATION (Heb. 2:1-3) by the same "faith" (Heb. 11) in the coming Christ who would RATIFY publicly the "blood of the EVERLASTING covenant" (Heb. 13:20). No literal salvation was ever obtained by sacrifices and the law (Heb. 10:1-4) then or now.

It was not all those listed in beginning with an UNCIRCUMCISED Abel were not born again; justified and saved and in heaven (Heb. 12;1,25) but what they did not receive was "the promise" of THE RESURRECTED PERFECTED BODY without sin. That, they will receive "WITH US."

 

[Moriah]

Heb. 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

It does little good to point out scriptures to you as you cannot see or understand what you read. However, perhaps you can see the underlined bold "the promise" singular and then it explained in the larger size bold underlined "made perfert."

Beginning with the UNCIRCUMCISED but saved/justfied GENTILE Abel, these were all JUSTIFIED by faith like Abraham, SAVED, BORN AGAIN and when they died they went to heaven as demonstrated by Heb. 12:1,25.

However, what they did not receive was "THE PROMISE" singular which was the end of their faith or the HOPE realized in the resurrection when they are "MADE PERFECT" or receive a body without sin . This is what they will receive at the resurrection "WITH US" yet in the future when they come FROM heaven with Christ (1 Thes. 4:14-17).

They had FULL SALVATION by the SAME GOSPEL as we do (Heb. 4:2) and shared in one COMMON SALVATION (Heb. 2:1-3) by the same "faith" (Heb. 11) in the coming Christ who would RATIFY publicly the "blood of the EVERLASTING covenant" (Heb. 13:20). No literal salvation was ever obtained by sacrifices and the law (Heb. 10:1-4) then or now.

It was not all those listed in beginning with an UNCIRCUMCISED Abel were not born again; justified and saved and in heaven (Heb. 12;1,25) but what they did not receive was "the promise" of THE RESURRECTED PERFECTED BODY without sin. That, they will receive "WITH US."

The SCRIPTURES says they were not made perfect until Jesus’ shed blood. This is NOT about resurrection, this is about faith in Jesus!

The Word of God says that through Jesus there is reconciliation of all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. See Colossians 1:20.

You cannot change the truth no matter what you say or how much you try.

The Jews were God’s people.

Romans 9:4 the people of Israel. Theirs is the adoption as sons; theirs the divine glory, the covenants, the receiving of the law, the temple worship and the promises.

The Gentiles were EXCLUDED and WITHOUT God in the world.

See Ephesians 2:12 remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.

The Gentiles were not included until Jesus shed his blood on the cross.

Ephesians 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ.

The Gentiles were once far off from God, but now brought near through the gospel.

Acts 2:39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call."

Ephesians 2:17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near.

Only through Jesus’ shed blood are we made perfect, those living now, and those who lived and died before Jesus came and died.

Colossians 1:20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

I have not spoken lies, as you would like others to believe.

 

[Moriah]

However, what they did not receive was "THE PROMISE" singular which was the end of their faith or the HOPE realized in the resurrection when they are "MADE PERFECT" or receive a body without sin . This is what they will receive at the resurrection "WITH US" yet in the future when they come FROM heaven with Christ (1 Thes. 4:14-17).

WE ARE MADE PERFECT THROUGH THE SHED BLOOD OF CHRIST.


Hebrews 10:10 and by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Hebrews 11:40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Hebrews 12:13 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.

Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

Hebrews 2:11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.

John 17:19 John 17:19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified

Ephesians 5:26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,

 

[The Biblicist]

WE ARE MADE PERFECT THROUGH THE SHED BLOOD OF CHRIST.


Hebrews 10:10 and by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Hebrews 11:40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Hebrews 12:13 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.

Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

Hebrews 2:11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.

John 17:19 John 17:19 For them I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified

Ephesians 5:26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,

They already received remission of sin at the point of faith - Acts 10:43 "for remission of sins"

They already received justfication at the point of faith - Romans 4:11 "which he HAD"

They already were "perfect" in heaven as "spirits of just men made perfect," - Heb. 12:23

Here is your major problem! Hebrews 11:40 says that the "perfect" being spoken about is something that they will receive "WITH US" and the only thing we have yet to receive is resurrection perfection which only comes after we have finished our race here on earth (Heb. 12:1). Hebrews 12:1 is the very next verse after Hebrews 11:40! They are in heaven as "spirits of just men MADE PERFECT" waiting for us to finish our race so that they "WITH US" might be made perfect in the resurrection.

Moreover, the previous context shows that they were all looking for the ETERNAL STATE:

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

They never entered into this ETERNAL STATE but are now waiting for us in heaven as "spirits of just men MADE PERFECT" but without their PERFECTED STATE in resurrected bodies which only comes after WE FINISH OUR RACE on earth.

Of course you don't care about what the immediate context defines as "the promise" they never received without us do you? Naaah! You have your own heretical agenda to defend don't you?

 

[Moriah]

They already received remission of sin at the point of faith - Acts 10:43 "for remission of sins"

They already received justfication at the point of faith - Romans 4:11 "which he HAD"

They already were "perfect" in heaven as "spirits of just men made perfect," - Heb. 12:23

Hebrews 11:40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

They were made perfect when Jesus came to earth, died on the cross, and rose from the dead, and ascended to heaven.

Those who loved God waited for Jesus, not the resurrection!

Hebrews 11:40 says that the "perfect" being spoken about is something that they will receive "WITH US" and the only thing we have yet to receive is resurrection perfection which only comes after we have finished our race here on earth (Heb. 12:1). Hebrews 12:1 is the very next verse after Hebrews 11:40! They are in heaven as "spirits of just men MADE PERFECT" waiting for us to finish our race so that they "WITH US" might be made perfect in the resurrection.

Again, the perfection was not and is not possible until Jesus. I gave you many scriptures telling you when we are made perfect; it is through the blood of Jesus and faith in his blood. You come up with a false belief about it being at the resurrection. At the resurrection, it is not said that we are made perfect. You have no scripture saying that. No scripture says what you are trying to teach. You continually try to force the scriptures to say what they do not say. At the resurrection, those waiting for Jesus will meet Jesus in the air, and the wicked will face God's wrath, then comes the great white throne judgment.

Moreover, the previous context shows that they were all looking for the ETERNAL STATE:

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country.

They never entered into this ETERNAL STATE but are now waiting for us in heaven as "spirits of just men MADE PERFECT" but without their PERFECTED STATE in resurrected bodies which only comes after WE FINISH OUR RACE on earth.

Of course you don't care about what the immediate context defines as "the promise" they never received without us do you?

You were given many scriptures that tell you when a person is made perfect, you deny them all, and go against God.

 

[The Biblicist]

Hebrews 11:40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

They were made perfect when Jesus came to earth, died on the cross, and rose from the dead, and ascended to heaven.

Those who loved God waited for Jesus, not the resurrection!

No one denies that Christ's death was necessary for EVERYTHING that characterizes our personal salvation from regeneration, justification, progressive sanctification, entrance into heaven at death, resurrected glorified body and entrance into the eternal state after the resurrection. Each of these items are purchased by the blood of Christ and none of them are possible without redemption by his blood.

However, you don't believe this! You believe some aspects of personal salvation do not require the death of Christ and purchase by his blood and I can prove you don't believe every aspect of our salvation required the shed blood of Christ to purchase it!

1. Abraham was JUSTIFIED by faith BEFORE THE CROSS
2. All those list in Hebrews 11 were SANCTIFIED by faith BEFORE THE CROSS
3. All those listed in Hebrews 11 WENT TO HEAVEN and are spirits of JUST (justified) men "MADE PERFECT."

If you were consistent you would have to deny that ANY ASPECT of salvation could be applied prior to the cross - regeneration as well as justification, as well as sanctification - walking by faith (Enoch walked with God) etc.

Furthermore, you don't care a hoot about Biblical context. You simply pick and choose what you please, jump here and there and pit one text against another text because you are a false teacher who rashly and perversly handle's the Word of God. That is your MO!

In context, all of these were SANCTIFIED BY FAITH as they WALKED BY FAITH. All of these were "JUST" men already JUSTIFIED by faith as was Abraham. All of these looked for a city ON EARTH whose builder and maker was God but never found that promise because it only occurs on the NEW EARTH in the NEW HEAVEN when the New Jerusalem COMES DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN - Rev. 21:1-2. They along "WITH US" must wait for this promise to be fulfilled. They are waiting in heaven (Heb. 12:1, 23) as "JUST men" already "MADE PERFECT" in regard to their "spirits" but neither we or them have been "MADE PERFECT" in body and neither of us have yet to realize the CITY THEY LOOKED FOR on earth and that will not occur until they "WITH US" are glorified in body or "MADE PERFECT" spirit, soul and body and enter into the NEW EARTH in a NEW HEAVEN. So we are both waiting until:

26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven.27 And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.


You couldn't recognize the truth if it stared you in the face.

 

[Moriah]

No one denies that Christ's death was necessary for EVERYTHING that characterizes our personal salvation from regeneration, justification, progressive sanctification, entrance into heaven at death, resurrected glorified body and entrance into the eternal state after the resurrection. Each of these items are purchased by the blood of Christ and none of them are possible without redemption by his blood.

However, you don't believe this! You believe some aspects of personal salvation do not require the death of Christ and purchase by his blood and I can prove you don't believe every aspect of our salvation required the shed blood of Christ to purchase it!

1. Abraham was JUSTIFIED by faith BEFORE THE CROSS
2. All those list in Hebrews 11 were SANCTIFIED by faith BEFORE THE CROSS
3. All those listed in Hebrews 11 WENT TO HEAVEN and are spirits of JUST (justified) men "MADE PERFECT."

If you were consistent you would have to deny that ANY ASPECT of salvation could be applied prior to the cross - regeneration as well as justification, as well as sanctification - walking by faith (Enoch walked with God) etc.

Furthermore, you don't care a hoot about Biblical context. You simply pick and choose what you please, jump here and there and pit one text against another text because you are a false teacher who rashly and perversly handle's the Word of God. That is your MO!

In context, all of these were SANCTIFIED BY FAITH as they WALKED BY FAITH. All of these were "JUST" men already JUSTIFIED by faith as was Abraham. All of these looked for a city ON EARTH whose builder and maker was God but never found that promise because it only occurs on the NEW EARTH in the NEW HEAVEN when the New Jerusalem COMES DOWN OUT OF HEAVEN - Rev. 21:1-2. They along "WITH US" must wait for this promise to be fulfilled. They are waiting in heaven (Heb. 12:1, 23) as "JUST men" already "MADE PERFECT" in regard to their "spirits" but neither we or them have been "MADE PERFECT" in body and neither of us have yet to realize the CITY THEY LOOKED FOR on earth and that will not occur until they "WITH US" are glorified in body or "MADE PERFECT" spirit, soul and body and enter into the NEW EARTH in a NEW HEAVEN. So we are both waiting until:

26 Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain.

You deny the scriptures that say all are made perfect through faith in the blood of Jesus. You claim they mean at the resurrection.

You do not get that people have to BELIEVE AND OBEY.

You try to tell me what it is that I believe, yet you are wrong. Stop making stuff up about what I believe.

You do not understand the scriptures, and you do not understand what I believe.

You are ensnared right along with all your favorite pastors. You speak all their nonsense explanations, worthless words that teach only falseness.

 

[The Biblicist]

You deny the scriptures that say all are made perfect through faith in the blood of Jesus. You claim they mean at the resurrection.

You do not get that people have to BELIEVE AND OBEY.

You try to tell me what it is that I believe, yet you are wrong. Stop making stuff up about what I believe.

You do not understand the scriptures, and you do not understand what I believe.

You are ensnared right along with all your favorite pastors. You speak all their nonsense explanations, worthless words that teach only falseness.

All you can do is re-assert your nonsense and then make slanderous charges. Why? Because you have no clue how to study the Bible or what is the difference between exegetical based responses versus eisgetical responses. In short, you are simply advertising your own extreme ignorance.

Go find someone who can teach you how to make exegetical based responses or at least someone who can teach you the difference between exegesis and eisgesis.

 

[Moriah]

All you can do is re-assert your nonsense and then make slanderous charges. Why? Because you have no clue how to study the Bible or what is the difference between exegetical based responses versus eisgetical responses. In short, you are simply advertising your own extreme ignorance.

Go find someone who can teach you how to make exegetical based responses or at least someone who can teach you the difference between exegesis and eisgesis.

Anyone with eyes to see can see that YOU are guilty of EVERYTHING that you falsely accuse me of doing. Lol

Just read the ridiculous post you wrote to me here in response to my scriptures and explanations!

 

[Moriah]

Reader,

Take note that Biblicist makes all kinds of excuses and personal attacks when he cannot defend his false beliefs.

 

[Moriah]

A
Go find someone who can teach you how to make exegetical based responses or at least someone who can teach you the difference between exegesis and eisgesis.

No one needs your false teachings or techniques to know the Truth. All we need is the Word of God to believe and obey.

Luke 10:21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, "I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this was your good pleasure.

Romans 1:22 Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools

1 Corinthians 1:19 For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world?

1 Corinthians 3:18 Do not deceive yourselves. If any one of you thinks he is wise by the standards of this age, he should become a “fool” so that he may become wise.

1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness”

1 Corinthians 3:20 and again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile.”

Oh how I love the Word of God.