Dead Faith as taught by the Apostle James

[Moriah]

Why are you avoiding my question? Jesus DID NOT say "all goodness is of God"! He said, "THERE IS NONE GOOD but one and that is God." Why are you changing the words of Christ?

I do not avoid anything that you ask according to your false doctrine. I search for false beliefs that you and others say here, just so I can correct them.
I can easily refute false doctrines your leaders have been preaching for centuries.
The Truth is more powerful than any of your manufactured beliefs.

Again, If someone came running up to you and said, "Good Moriah, what good thing CAN I DO to inherit eternal life?" Would you use the EXACT WORDS Christ used in response???? Would you respond, "WHY CALLEST THOU ME GOOD?" Would you respond that way?

I would say, and have said to others, God alone is good.
I would not ever say the insane teaching that you give, that no one can do good things.

Furthermore, would YOU respond "THERE IS NONE GOOD, but one and that is God."
You know you would not respond to that particular question with those particular words so why LIE and why keep changing Christ's words to mean something he never said?

Stop telling me what I have done and will do.

He never said "goodness comes only from God" because what does that have to do with "Why callesth thou me good?" Your intepretation is absolute nonsense!

You have no understanding of the Spiritual.
Jesus is GOOD. With your reasoning, Jesus is not good nor did he ever do anything good!

Yes, all goodness does come from God. That is why we must first be created in Christ Jesus by God "UNTO good works" - Eph. 2:10

Of course, we do good works after we are saved. That does not mean we cannot do right things by obeying Jesus so that we can find God and be saved. We are supposed to do that. How else do you think we search for God and find Him? ANSWER THAT question, how do you think a person is to search for God? How do you think a person finds God? I would love to tell you.

- because all our righteouenssess are as filthy rages until we receive from God the ability to do goodness and that is by the creative work of God –

The filthy rags scripture is about saved people who sin but still do righteous things. It is about the Jews who sinned then did the righteous act of an offering to God when they were not sorry for their sins. THEIR righteous acts were as filthy rags because they kept sinning!

That is very true but he never said that! I thought you loved God's Word so why do you CHANGE HIS WORDS?

You are a confused man in falseness. You just said “That is very true but he never said that!” THEN you say “I thought you loved God’s Word so why did you change his words?” YOU JUST GOT THROUGH FIRST SAYING WHAT I SAID IS TRUE.
I explain things to you, but then you look for anything to go against me about.

Now, be honest and answer my question.

I do not believe you can be hones.

If a person came running up to you and said, "Good Moriah, what good thing must I do to inherit eternal life?" would you respond with these precise words?

1. "Why callest thou me good"?

2. "There is NONE GOOD but one and that is God"

I have already explained to you what I would say. I would say only God is good. I would NOT EVER TELL THEM THE INSANE UNREALISTIC FALSE TEACHINGS THAT YOU GIVE, and that is I would never tell them no one could do anything good.

He did not say "goodness comes from God alone" but he said "THERE IS NONE GOOD" that is a universal rule with only one except to the rule.

Consider more carefully, what the scriptures say. Do you think that Jesus did good things, Yes or no? Do you think Jesus was good, Yes or No?

Why do you keep changing his words and ignoring my direct questions?

Why can you not understand? I DO NOT CHANGE HIS WORDS. I AM EXPLAINING THEM?

Paul said the same thing - "THERE IS NONE GOOD, no, NOT ONE" and he said that not in a context that goodness comes only from God but in a context of those "UNDER SIN" and every human being is born "UNDER SIN" (Rom. 3:9)

THERE IS NO RIGHTEOUS PERSON WHO NEVER SINS.
You do not understand Paul to your destruction.
Read these scriptures:
Ecclesiastes 7:20 There is not a righteous man on earth who does what is right and never sins.
Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
WE FALL SHORT, SHORT. That does not mean no one can do anything good.
1 Kings 8:46 "When they sin against you--for there is no one who does not sin--and you become angry with them and give them over to the enemy, who takes them captive to his own land, far away or near;
Did you read 1 Kings 8:46? WHEN they sin against you, AND ---for there is no one who does not sin---This is about WHEN people sin, I guess WHEN they ARE not sinning they are doing something good?!
Proverbs 20:9 Who can say, "I have kept my heart pure; I am clean and without sin"?
Did you read Proverbs 20:9? CAN YOU NOT SEE WHAT PAUL IS SAYING WHEN HE SAYS NNE IS RIGHTEOUS ? It is about no one is righteous and NEVER SINS.

 

[Moriah]

That is precisely what I said! The context is EVIDENTIAL JUSTIFICATION by works as verse 18 clearly states. Where there is a profession of faith that is not evidenced by works it is a "dead" faith and therefore a FALSE PROFESSION and false professions do not save.

Your sinful beliefs teach that they were MADE TO BELIEVE AND OBEY. Therefore, what you say here is NO DEFENSE.

 

[Moriah]

Salvation is by faith alone. Faith (or believing) is not a work. If you say it is you believe the same way as our resident hyper-Calvinist, SBM, who also defines faith as a work. If you put faith in the category of works you teach salvation by works, a heresy.

You are in a false belief system just like SBM. Your beliefs are just like his, the only exception is you believe a person can believe. Even your believing is dead though. Your believing, according to you, cannot come with any emotions, feelings, or action. YOU BELIEVE DEAD FAITH IS SAVING FAITH.

I said feelings don't matter, for feelings cannot save. Where in the Bible does it teach that feelings save? Only Christ can save.

Of course, only Christ can save. Feelings do matter. I could explain better to you, but I do not want to share it with you.

I can still tell her that her works don't save her, without telling her anything about circumcision, because that is not what verse 9 is speaking about. But you would be duty bound to tell this poor ten year old girl about circumcision because you think that salvation is "not of works" which means "not of circumcision." Ridiculous!

You are ridiculous. Why do you keep bringing up about the 10-year-old girl and explaining circumcision? Why do you think I would need to explain circumcision when I would not ever tell someone to believe and do nothing?

I would tell her the Jews used to do many external things just to worship God and belong to Him. I would tell her before Jesus came they used the blood of animals to pay for their sins, but Jesus came, shed his blood on the cross for us, and now they do not have to do anymore animal sacrifices.

I would explain Eph.2:8,9 again, more carefully.
I would explain John 3:16; 1John 5:13; John 5:24; Rom.10:9,10 and a host of other Scriptures until she is satisfied that she has an assurance of salvation. But, unlike you, I would not bring up circumcision and the works of the law.

I would not tell anyone, let alone a 10-year-old girl that she just has to believe and do nothing. I would tell her there are many things Jesus tells us to do, and if she loves him, she will do them.

Why wouldn't you seek for God? As I noted in another post, you don't seem to know what prayer is. Take some lessons from some great men of God in the Bible:

Psalms 63:1 A Psalm of David, when he was in the wilderness of Judah. O God, thou art my God; early will I seek thee: my soul thirsteth for thee, my flesh longeth for thee in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is;

Isaiah 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
--David sought the Lord; Isaiah sought the Lord.
Perhaps it is time you should take up this practice as well.

You have NO IDEA about David and Isaiah.

David was a man after God’s own heart BECAUSE HE DID WHATEVER GOD SAYS TO DO.

Acts 13:22 After removing Saul, he made David their king. He testified concerning him: 'I have found David son of Jesse a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.'

Oh how I love the Word of God.

Jesus reveals himself, shows himself, TO THOSE WHO GET HIS TEACHINGS AND OBEY THEM. John 14.

God does not even know you if you do not obey. So what good is all your praying if God does not hear your prayers since you do not obey and stop sinning?

So this is what you think of great men of God when they pray? I feel sorry for you. It is a real shame. I gave you examples:
Praying Hyde who fasted and prayed for as much as 26 days before he preached.
David Brainerd who often fasted and prayed.
Then I gave you the examples of Jesus, Moses, and Elijah, all of whom fasted and prayed for 40 days and 40 nights.

I then encouraged you to do some of the same--maybe for 3 days or so, demonstrating to you that prayer is work.

What does it matter if you fast for a whole month if you do not do what God says to do?

You have no understanding.

Isaiah 58:5-7
Is this the kind of fast I have chosen,
only a day for a man to humble himself?
Is it only for bowing one’s head like a reed
and for lying on sackcloth and ashes?
Is that what you call a fast,
a day acceptable to the LORD?
6 “Is not this the kind of fasting I have chosen:
to loose the chains of injustice
and untie the cords of the yoke,
to set the oppressed free
and break every yoke?
7 Is it not to share your food with the hungry
and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter—
when you see the naked, to clothe him,
and not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?

To the unsaved the only thing they can do to be saved is to believe on Christ. All else is but filthy rags.

It is NEVER something to throw away as a filthy rag when someone believes in Jesus, gets his teachings, and obey them. To say so is evil.

BTW, there is no such thing as Acts 55:32

You think you can toss away God’s Word that easily. I have quoted you Acts 5:32 many times.

We do not receive the Holy Spirit unless we obey.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

Why can you not see those words of God and believe? Why oh why will you not believe?

Then, according to your reason, the thief on the cross, once he was saved was lost again for he had no opportunity to do good works.

Are you finally coming to the truth that we have to do things? The thief on the cross believed in God and Jesus. He feared God. He humbled himself. He confessed his sin. He trusted Jesus. He called on the name of the Lord.
Tell me, are you NOW admitting we can and should do these things to be saved?

 

[Moriah]

It is a teaching from demons to think that "obeying Jesus" is going to get you to heaven. Only faith in Christ can do that.

God does not even know you if you do not do what He says, and the Word says it makes you a liar. James says that kind of faith cannot save a man. James says you have deceived yourself.

Believing and trusting are the same thing. Being humble may be a work. There are many humble Buddhists. Will their humility get them to heaven?

You have not debate skills in the word. How would a Buddhist be saved if he rejects Jesus is God’s Son?

Thirst is a need. Quenching the thirst is a work. The work will not get you to heaven.

You have no idea what you are saying.

You say believing is not a work, but quenching the thirst is a work.

RECEIVING THE HOLY SPIRIT IS LIKE DRINKING!
If it is a work, THEN YOU BETTER START WORKING AND TELL OTHERS TO DO SO TOO.

For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 1 Corinthians 12:13

John 7:37 On the last and greatest day of the Feast, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink.

Oh how I love the Word of God.

 

[DHK]

You are in a false belief system just like SBM. Your beliefs are just like his, the only exception is you believe a person can believe. Even your believing is dead though. Your believing, according to you, cannot come with any emotions, feelings, or action. YOU BELIEVE DEAD FAITH IS SAVING FAITH.

As I have said many times before, you don't know what faith is. You have demonstrated that on this board. You are not qualified to tell me what I believe about faith, because you don't know what faith is. You can't even give a definition of faith.
Both you and SBM believe that faith is a work. You and he agree; not me.
The Bible teaches that one is saved by faith alone. I can back up my beliefs by Scripture; you can't, unless you tear the passage out of context.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:
--meaning by faith alone.

I don't believe in a "dead" faith, but you wouldn't know that because you don't know what faith is; you are unable to define it.

To accuse me of believing that dead faith is saving faith is a false allegation. It is a lie. Perhaps every time you do this I shall remind you of your sinful nature, and your need to repent. You still haven't repented for adding to the Word of God, the words "Peter reinstated." Those words are not the inspired words of God, and you added them to the Bible. Shame on you!

Of course, only Christ can save. Feelings do matter. I could explain better to you, but I do not want to share it with you.

No you don't want to share, because you know you are wrong. Feelings cannot save. That is all that I said. Do you believe your feelings, your emotions can save you? Were you saved by your emotions? Yes or No?

You are ridiculous. Why do you keep bringing up about the 10-year-old girl and explaining circumcision? Why do you think I would need to explain circumcision when I would not ever tell someone to believe and do nothing?

What does the Bible say:
Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

1. Abraham was saved by faith alone.
2. Works are counted as a debt to be owed.
3. To him that doesn't work, but only believes, that man is saved/justified.
4. The one that believes and works not (does nothing) is the one that is saved.
--I believe the Scripture; apparently you do not.

In fact, when explaining Eph.2:8,9 to a ten year old girl you would feel obligated to tell her about the Mosaic Law and circumcision because that is what you believe the phrase "not of works" means, when in reality it does not refer to that at all. It teaches the little girl that she can't get to heaven by her good works, whether that means coming to church, obeying her parents, her teacher, and others, or even doing good to her neighbor. That is what the "works" means in verse 9. But you are adamant that it means circumcision, so you must teach a ten year old girl all about circumcision before she can be saved. What nonsense!!

I would tell her the Jews used to do many external things just to worship God and belong to Him. I would tell her before Jesus came they used the blood of animals to pay for their sins, but Jesus came, shed his blood on the cross for us, and now they do not have to do anymore animal sacrifices.

And this unsaved Biblically illiterate ten year old would ask:
What is a Jew?
Why are animals sacrificed? Did they kill animals and burn them? Isn't that against the law? That is horrible! Did God command that! I wouldn't believe in a God that kills little lambs!
What do you mean the blood of animals--eeeew!! yuck!!
You don't know much about children do you?
Salvation is through Christ; it is through the gospel, not through the OT sacrificial system which never has to be mentioned when explaining the gospel.

I would not tell anyone, let alone a 10-year-old girl that she just has to believe and do nothing. I would tell her there are many things Jesus tells us to do, and if she loves him, she will do them.

Salvation is by faith and faith alone. You would then be telling her a false gospel.

You have NO IDEA about David and Isaiah.

David was a man after God’s own heart BECAUSE HE DID WHATEVER GOD SAYS TO DO.

Apparently more than you. They sought after the Lord; you don't.

Acts 13:22 After removing Saul, he made David their king. He testified concerning him: 'I have found David son of Jesse a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.'

And he sought after the Lord; you don't; you don't believe in it, or so you said.

Jesus reveals himself, shows himself, TO THOSE WHO GET HIS TEACHINGS AND OBEY THEM. John 14.

But not to the unsaved who cannot do such things.

God does not even know you if you do not obey. So what good is all your praying if God does not hear your prayers since you do not obey and stop sinning?

Is this another false accusation, a lie, a questioning of my salvation. Repent and stop your sinning. This sin is a result of your sin nature, that sin nature that loves to sin.

What does it matter if you fast for a whole month if you do not do what God says to do?

You have no understanding.

More false allegations and accusation.
Repent, and get right with God. That old sin nature that you inherited from birth is raising its ugly head again.

Isaiah 58:5-7

It is NEVER something to throw away as a filthy rag when someone believes in Jesus, gets his teachings, and obey them. To say so is evil.

Why are you twisting words? I specifically said "unsaved" person. All works by an unsaved person are as filthy rags in God's sight.

You think you can toss away God’s Word that easily. I have quoted you Acts 5:32 many times.

We do not receive the Holy Spirit unless we obey.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

Why can you not see those words of God and believe? Why oh why will you not believe?

I believe the Scriptures, but not your false interpretation of them.

Context:
Acts 5:14 And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.)
Acts 5:19 But the angel of the Lord by night opened the prison doors, and brought them forth, and said,
20 Go, stand and speak in the temple to the people all the words of this life.
Acts 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
--They were standing before the Sanhedrin. Their obedience consisted in repentance of the things that they had done to Christ (vs.30). They slew him and hanged him on a tree. Then they had to believe on him. That was the obedience required of this select group of people. Only then could they be saved. Why do you yank this verse out of context??

Are you finally coming to the truth that we have to do things? The thief on the cross believed in God and Jesus. He feared God. He humbled himself. He confessed his sin. He trusted Jesus. He called on the name of the Lord.
Tell me, are you NOW admitting we can and should do these things to be saved?

No. The thief on the cross simply believed on Christ. He was saved. There were no works involved. You are just making things up as you go along. He had no time to do works. Soon after he believed he died.

 

[Moriah]

It is a teaching from demons to think that "obeying Jesus" is going to get you to heaven. Only faith in Christ can do that.
There is nothing a person can do. You cannot save yourself. It is Christ that saves. Do you think you can work your way to heaven?
Believing and trusting are the same thing. Being humble may be a work. There are many humble Buddhists. Will their humility get them to heaven?
Thirst is a need. Quenching the thirst is a work. The work will not get you to heaven.

Jesus says believing is the work God requires, Johns 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.".

Believing is like drinking. If you do not come to Jesus and do what he says, then how are you going to be saved?

Drinking is a work, but what kind of work is it? IT IS NOT THE BURDENSOME KIND OF WORKS, AS THE JEWS HAD TO DO. Jesus says his commands are not burdensome. NONE OF HIS COMMANDS ARE BURDENSOME.

If you do not obey Jesus, you are not saved.

We must believe and obey!

 

[DHK]

Jesus says believing is the work God requires, Johns 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.".

Believing is like drinking. If you do not come to Jesus and do what he says, then how are you going to be saved?

Drinking is a work, but what kind of work is it? IT IS NOT THE BURDENSOME KIND OF WORKS, AS THE JEWS HAD TO DO. Jesus says his commands are not burdensome. NONE OF HIS COMMANDS ARE BURDENSOME.

If you do not obey Jesus, you are not saved.

We must believe and obey!

We must believe.
Only believe. That is all. Salvation is by faith and faith alone.
It is not belief plus obedience.
If it is faith plus nothing. It is faith in the shed blood of Christ. He alone can save you. Why do you think you can save yourself by your obedience (works)? That is an insult to Christ.

 

[Moriah]

We must believe.
Only believe. That is all. Salvation is by faith and faith alone.
It is not belief plus obedience.
If it is faith plus nothing. It is faith in the shed blood of Christ. He alone can save you. Why do you think you can save yourself by your obedience (works)? That is an insult to Christ.

Repent for the evil nonsense of a doctrine taught by demons.
Stop telling people they are to do nothing.
Stop telling people believing is not a work.
Believing is a work.
Jesus says believing is the work God requires, John 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.".
You teach lies.

 

[The Biblicist]

I would say, and have said to others, God alone is good.

Jesus first asked "why callest thou me good"? Would you ask that question to some one asking you "Good Moriah, what good thing CAN I DO to inherit eternal life?"

This young man never questioned whether goodness came from God he only asked what GOOD THING HE COULD DO!

Would you respond to that question as Christ did "Why callest thou me good"?

Explain why Jesus would respond to his question about WHAT GOOD THING HE COULD DO by asking "WHY CALLEST THOU ME GOOD"?

Jesus is GOOD. With your reasoning, Jesus is not good nor did he ever do anything good!

I never denied Jesus was good! I never denied that God was good! I never denied that all goodness comes from God! What I denied is that Christ's words in this context in response to the young man's question has anything to do with where goodness comes from but rather who alone IS good!

So stop putting words in my mouth I did not say and stop telling me what I don't believe.

Your intepretation of the words "There is NONE GOOD but one and that is God" has absolutely nothing to do with with either the young man's question (as he never asked where does goodness come from) or with Christ's question (as he never asked where does goodness come from) but rather Christ's words have directly respect to the claim of the young man that he is ABLE TO DO GOOD! Jesus is repudiating his assertion that he is ABLE TO DO GOOD because he claims that "There is NONE GOOD but one and that is God" and one must first BE good in order to DO good.

You have interpeted his words "There is none good but one and that is God" to mean something that has nothing to do with THIS CONTEXT or the question the young man asks or the question Jesus first asks the young man before making this statement.

Moreover you ignorantly distort my words. I do believe that all goodness comes from God and nowhere else BUT this text and his words have NOTHING to do with that truth! That truth is taught elsewhere in scripture but NOT HERE!

This text is dealing with whether the young man has ABILITY TO DO GOOD as he assumes he has by his quesiton - "GOOD Master, what GOOD thing shall I DO"

First, his question assumes he is as "good" as Christ because it assumes he can "do" good just as Christ can as the term "good" is first used by the young man to describe Christ - "GOOD master" and then used to describe what he claims he is able to do "what GOOD thing shall I DO"

Second, Christ's question "why callesth thou me good" challenges the young man's assertion of equality with Christ in regard to being "good" because only he who IS GOOD can DO GOOD.

Third, Christ's response that "THERE IS NONE GOOD" is a denial of the young man's assertion and assumption that he is able to "DO" good.

Paul also said "there is none that DOETH GOOD, no, not one" and yet you called anyone who made such an assertion as Paul makes here as an "INSANE" teaching!

 

[Fred's Wife]

Saving faith is:

1. Receiving Jesus (John 1:12). Biblical salvation is a personal relationship with the living Christ.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

2. Coming to Christ (John 6:35).

John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

3. To be sure of Christ (John 6:66-69).

]John 6:66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
John 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will ye also go away?
John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
John 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

4. To know Christ (John 17:3).

John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou has sent.

5. Confidence in Christ (Hebrews 3:6,14).

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Hebrews 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

6. Ceasing from one's own works (Hebrews 4:10).

Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

7. Fleeing for refuge in Christ (Hebrews 6:18).

Hebrews 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

Paul does not contradict James. Paul is addressing the unsaved sinner’s perspective (Romans 4:4-6). The sinner must trust Jesus Christ exclusively for salvation; he must reject his own filthy works (Isaiah 64:6) and all self-righteousness (Romans 9:30-33) and lean totally upon the Lord Jesus Christ, trusting wholly in His perfect and complete redemption. James, on the other hand, is addressing the Christian’s perspective. The Christian claims to have faith in Jesus Christ. He is therefore to diligently serve God and to walk in His commandments. Those who live in rebellion and who ignore the Word of God are demonstrating that they do not possess true saving faith, and that they are deceiving themselves. Works PROVE saving faith...they (works) are the RESULT of saving faith, not the CAUSE it.

 

[Moriah]

Jesus first asked "why callest thou me good"? Would you ask that question to some one asking you "Good Moriah, what good thing CAN I DO to inherit eternal life?"

I would tell them God alone is good. I have told you that many times now.

This young man never questioned whether goodness came from God he only asked what GOOD THING HE COULD DO!

Jesus knew the man needed to know that God alone is good. We all need to understand that, so that we come to the light to show that what we have been doing has been through God.

Explain why Jesus would respond to his question about WHAT GOOD THING HE COULD DO by asking "WHY CALLEST THOU ME GOOD"?

I have been explaining it to you. You just do not see. Tell me, do you think Jesus is good? Do you understand why the rich man called Jesus good?

I never denied Jesus was good! I never denied that God was good! I never denied that all goodness comes from God! What I denied is that Christ's words in this context in response to the young man's question has anything to do with where goodness comes from but rather who alone IS good!

Therefore, if only God is good, are you more aware now where goodness comes from? Yes, we know more now where goodness comes from, not from us, but from God.

Even we who are evil know how to give good gifts to our children.

Do you understand that?

That is what God says.

Jesus is repudiating his assertion that he is ABLE TO DO GOOD because he claims that "There is NONE GOOD but one and that is God" and one must first BE good in order to DO good.

Therefore, you ARE saying Jesus is not good. With your explanation and beliefs, YOU are saying that Jesus is not good.

Moreover you ignorantly distort my words.

You are the one who distorts words.

I do believe that all goodness comes from God and nowhere else BUT this text and his words have NOTHING to do with that truth! That truth is taught elsewhere in scripture but NOT HERE!

If Jesus is not teaching that all good comes from God alone who is good, what do you think he is teaching? Do you think he is teaching that no one can do ANYTHING good? If that is what you want us to believe, then you are wrong, because EVIL HUMANS CAN DO GOOD THINGS.

THEY KNOW HOW TO GIVE GOOD GIFTS TO THEIR CHILDREN. THEY CAN HELP OTHERS, THINK F THE GOOD SAMARITAN. THEY CAN LOVE OTHERS.

First, his question assumes he is as "good" as Christ because it assumes he can "do" good just as Christ can as the term "good" is first used by the young man to describe Christ - "GOOD master" and then used to describe what he claims he is able to do "what GOOD thing shall I DO"

That is ignorant nonsense. Where do you get that he was saying he is just as good as Jesus is!

The scriptures say Jesus loved him. Where do you get that Jesus believed he was calling himself just as good as Jesus? You need to stop adding to the scriptures. You think Jesus loved someone who thought they were just as good as God?!!!!!!!

You think you are correcting me by saying I explain that scripture by using other scriptures, BUT YOU EXPLAIN THAT SCRIPTURE BY SAYING WHAT IS SAID NOWHERE, NOWHERE IN THE BIBLE.

 

[Moriah]

Paul does not contradict James.

No way does Paul contradict James! Where would you even think that for a second, unless you had false beliefs and did not understand Paul in the first place.

Paul is addressing the unsaved sinner’s perspective (Romans 4:4-6).

Paul in Romans 4:4-6 is about not having to do works to be ceremonially clean with various external washings! Paul is explaining we did not have to do the works of burnt offerings before appearing before an all Holy God, because through faith in the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sins!
“Blessed are they
Whose transgressions are forgiven.
Whoes sins are covered.
Blessed is the man
Whose sin the Lord will never count against him.
Paul immediately after this says,
“Is this blessedness only for the circumcised, or the uncircumcised?

The sinner must trust Jesus Christ exclusively for salvation; he must reject his own filthy works (Isaiah 64:6) and all self-righteousness (Romans 9:30-33) and lean totally upon the Lord Jesus Christ, trusting

WHAT ARE PEOPLE’S OWN WORKS ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? IT IS NOT AS A FILTHY RAG TO GET JESUS’ TEACHINGS AND OBEY THEM. THAT IS CONFUSION FROM THE DEVIL TO TEACH SUCH EVIL.
The scripture about the filthy rags are about the Jews who would keep sinning but do righteous acts that God told them to do, but since they kept sinning, their righteous acts, like offerings, their sins and unrepentant hearts made those things as filthy rags.
If your daughter in law speaks badly about you behind you back, but then comes and gives you a present, is that present in itself a filthy rag? NO. Nevertheless, it is a filthy rag present because she does not like you and does you wrong behind your back.
Doing right is not as filthy rags! Unless you claim you are saved and keep sinning against God!

wholly in His perfect and complete redemption. James, on the other hand, is addressing the Christian’s perspective. The Christian claims to have faith in Jesus Christ.

Paul is telling Christians, and anyone who reads his words, that faith without good actions with it is DEAD, and it cannot save anyone.

 

[The Biblicist]

I would tell them God alone is good. I have told you that many times now.

Yes, you have told me what you would say many times but that is not what I asked you! I asked you would you use Christ's own words - "There is NONE GOOD but one and that is God."

I didn't ask you for your reinterpetation of his words but I asked you if you would respond to that question using his EXACT WORDS?

You have to CHANGE his words because you cannot get yourself to use HIS WORDS can you??? Tell the truth because in every response you have NEVER yet used HIS WORDS have you?

That is not what Christ said to him. Christ did not say "God alone is good."

Jesus knew the man needed to know that God alone is good. We all need to understand that, so that we come to the light to show that what we have been doing has been through God.

Your reasoning is irrational! This man was raised as a Jew and knew that God was good as that knowledge is necessary for the very basis for asking the question "what good thing can I do to inherit eternal life." If he didn't already know that God was good and demanded good he would have never identified his own basis for seeking eternal life on the basis of doing "good."

So your reasoning is false, because all Jews were raised from children up to know that truth. Your reasoning is false because your interpertation is false.

Therefore, if only God is good, are you more aware now where goodness comes from? Yes, we know more now where goodness comes from, not from us, but from God.

Another irrational explanation. Jesus is not merely asserting that God alone is God but he is universally DENYING that anyone else is good when he says, "THERE IS NONE GOOD."

You insult both Christ and Paul! Paul said it even more emphatically - "There is none that doeth good, NO, NOT ONE" You call this "insane" teaching! If I had to pick who was advocating "insane" teaching between you and Paul, I would pick you every time.

You cannot understand that one must first be "good" BEFORE they can DO good and that is the point Jesus is making in this context. Jesus is denying he has the ability to "do" good enough to inherit eternal life.

Even we who are evil know how to give good gifts to our children.

Wrong again! There is a difference between DOING good and giving GOOD GIFTS. The term "good" modifies the "gift" not the giver.

Secondly, God's kind of love is not the low kind of love that simply loves those who love you but it is a higher love that loves those who do not love back.

Do you understand that?

You do not understand that!

Therefore, you ARE saying Jesus is not good. With your explanation and beliefs, YOU are saying that Jesus is not good.

Only a person that does not understand what I said or my interpretation would make such a conclusion!

I said, was it was the rich young ruler who did not understand who Jesus really is in comparson with who he is. The rich young ruler saw himself EQUAL to Christ and that EQUALITY was expressed by the use of the word "good" being EQUALLY applied to himself as to Christ. He believed he was as "good" as Christ because he believed he could DO "good" as equal as Christ.

That is precisely why Christ asked "Why callesth thou me good." If the rich young ruler really knew who he was talking to he would have never used the term "good" in the way he did. If you don't understand what I am saying let me spell it out so you cannot possibly misunderstand and keep perverting my words.

If he had known that he was speaking to God in the flesh, he would not have claimed that he was as "good" as Jesus. He would not have addressed Jesus with the same descriptive as he used to describe his own self ability.

Jesus asked the question to make him consider who he was really addressing and comparing himself with! But you can't understand that because you have no spiritual ability to understand that any more than the rich young ruler did. Your response to Christ's question is precisely the same kind of response as the rich young ruler - blissful ignorance and continuing to assert himself just as "good" as Christ (God).

If Jesus is not teaching that all good comes from God alone who is good, what do you think he is teaching?

I have told you repeatedly but you don't possess the spiritual ability to understand! He is plainly telling him that unless you are God you have no INHERENT GOODNESS as only God has INHERENT goodness. The Greek term translated "good" or "agathos" refers to INHERENT GOODNESS and only God is inherently Good and one must be inherently good to "do" good! That is precisely why "THERE IS NONE good but one and that is God."

That is why Paul said "There is NONE that DOETH GOOD, NO, NOT ONE"

However, you claim that anyone who teaches that is INSANE because you call that INSANE teaching.

However, that is why Jesus told nicodemus he MUST be born again as that is the only way man receives INHERENT goodness so that he can DO good. That inherent GOODNESSS comes from a NEW CREATION, a NEW INWARD man "created in true holiness and righteousness" so that one must first BE GOOD before they can DO good. Common sense should tell you that but you are without common sense.

Jesus said that the fruit determines the nature of a tree. Good trees bring froth good fruit and bad trees bring forth bad fruit. So likewise, sinners bring forth sin and must be saved to bring forth righteousness. The new birth is creating a person "in Christ Jesus UNTO good works." Good works FOLLOW but do not precede being created in Christ Jesus. However, you cannot know what you have not experienced.

Do you think he is teaching that no one can do ANYTHING good?

What YOU and SINFUL men define as "good" is not what God defines as "good" in his sight for justification! God does not define "sin" as "good." God does not define "coming short of the glory of God" to be "good." God defines "good" by his own righteousness which is revealed in the standard of "good" defined by the law:

1. To violate His law in ONE point is to violate EVERY point - James 2:10-11 and that is not "good" and he is talking about the ten commandments (v. 11)

2. To fail to be as "perfect EVEN AS your Father in heaven IS perfect" is not "good" in God's sight but is sin (Mt. 5:48).

Hence, "good" is not failing in any point of the law! Hence, "good" is being as "perfect" as the Father in heaen is Perfect. Therefore, "good" is not coming short of the glory of God. If you say you are that "good" you are a liar (1 Jn. 1:8-10).

When it comes to being "good" enough to enter heaven, to be justified in God's sight you must be as "good" as God's own righteousness or you are not "good" at all EXCEPT in the eyes of men who compare themselves with themselves as the standard of "good." In regard to being "good" enough to obtain eternal life Paul says "THERE IS NONE that doeth good, NO, NOT ONE" and you call Paul a liar. Paul is not speaking about Christians when he said that but about lost people "UNDER SIN" (Rom. 3:9) who are then described in the language in Romans 3:12-18 and you have to be a complete idiot to define those in Romans 3:9-18 as Christians. He is describing the lost man "UNDER SIN" - Rom. 3:9

 

[Fred's Wife]

Moriah,

At what point do you cease to talk at people and begin to discuss Biblical topics with people?

It is at that point (of discussion with people) that I will respond like wise to you, but not until then.

I posted a biblical response as to the difference between "dead" faith and saving faith as Paul and James taught and was simply stating that Paul and James did not contradict each other. In all your yelling and talking at and "down" to others, this is what you seem to imply. I have never believed that Paul and James contradicted each other and for you to even imply that I did, is making a false asssumption.

Start discussing what you mean with people instead of talking at and "down to" them, and perhaps they will respond likewise.

 

[Moriah]

Moriah,

At what point do you cease to talk at people and begin to discuss Biblical topics with people?

It is at that point (of discussion with people) that I will respond like wise to you, but not until then.

I posted a biblical response as to the difference between "dead" faith and saving faith as Paul and James taught and was simply stating that Paul and James did not contradict each other. In all your yelling and talking at and "down" to others, this is what you seem to imply. I have never believed that Paul and James contradicted each other and for you to even imply that I did, is making a false asssumption.

Start discussing what you mean with people instead of talking at and "down to" them, and perhaps they will respond likewise.

Stop sinning against Jesus' commands.
Stop coming on to judge me. You are not qualified.

 

[Fred's Wife]

Stop sinning against Jesus' commands.
Stop coming on to judge me. You are not qualified.

Listen Moriah....you are NOT God! Against which commands of Jesus do you believe I am sinning? I didn't even call you any names.

This is a PUBLIC debate forum and I have pretty much ignored you until now...so therefore, I have not come on this forum to judge you. Do you have a guilty conscience? But after weeks of reading your posts (most of which were talking at and down to others), I decided to speak up Jesus tells us:

John 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Neither are you qualified to make false assumptions about others.

 

[DHK]

Repent for the evil nonsense of a doctrine taught by demons.
Stop telling people they are to do nothing.
Stop telling people believing is not a work.
Believing is a work.
Jesus says believing is the work God requires, John 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.".
You teach lies.

There is a fountain filled with blood drawn from Emmanuel's veins; and sinners plunged beneath that flood lose all their guilty stains. Lose all their guilty stains, lose all their guilty stains; and sinners plunged beneath that flood lose all their guilty stains.

2. The dying thief rejoiced to see that fountain in his day; and there may I, though vile as he, wash all my sins away. Wash all my sins away, wash all my sins away; and there may I, though vile as he, wash all my sins away.

3. Dear dying Lamb, thy precious blood shall never lose its power till all the ransomed church of God be saved, to sin no more. Be saved, to sin no more, be saved, to sin no more; till all the ransomed church of God be saved, to sin no more.

4. E'er since, by faith, I saw the stream thy flowing wounds supply, redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be till I die. And shall be till I die, and shall be till I die; redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be till I die.

William Cowper who lived in the 1700's, under the strain of the ministry, went insane. Three times he tried to commit suicide. Sometime after the third attempt he sat down and wrote this hymn that we know so well today. As the Bible teaches, Cowper wrote

"E'er since by faith, I saw the stream thy flowing wounds supply, redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be till I die."

Salvation is by faith, not of works, not of oneself, but by faith and faith alone. It is the gift of God to be received without effort, without any type of work or obedience whatsoever. Just receive the gift by faith. That is what Cowper did, and that is where he found peace. He was a friend of the former slave trader John Newton.

You need to examine John 6:29 carefully.
What shall we DO to have eternal life.
The only thing they could DO was to believe.
It was the only "work" because it wasn't a work. It was a play on words.
Study the passage carefully.

 

[Moriah]

Yes, you have told me what you would say many times but that is not what I asked you! I asked you would you use Christ's own words - "There is NONE GOOD but one and that is God."

I didn't ask you for your reinterpetation of his words but I asked you if you would respond to that question using his EXACT WORDS?

You have to CHANGE his words because you cannot get yourself to use HIS WORDS can you??? Tell the truth because in every response you have NEVER yet used HIS WORDS have you?

That is not what Christ said to him. Christ did not say "God alone is good."

I answered your questions. I do not do as you accuse.

Your reasoning is irrational! This man was raised as a Jew and knew that God was good as that knowledge is necessary for the very basis for asking the question "what good thing can I do to inherit eternal life." If he didn't already know that God was good and demanded good he would have never identified his own basis for seeking eternal life on the basis of doing "good."

So your reasoning is false, because all Jews were raised from children up to know that truth. Your reasoning is false because your interpertation is false.

Your reasoning is FALSE! For you claim Jesus told him God alone is good because he thought he was as good as God is! That is insane talk!

Wrong again! There is a difference between DOING good and giving GOOD GIFTS. The term "good" modifies the "gift" not the giver.

That is deceitful. If you teach unknowledgeable people that, and they blindly follow you, you show you live by perversion.
It only MODIFIES THE GIFT WHEN YOU YOURSELF ARE A UNREPENTANT SINNER WHO SAYS THEY KNOW GOD BUT DO NOT STOP SINNING, THEN THE GOOD GIFT BECOMES AS A FILTY RAG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUT GOD DOES NOT SAY YOU WHO ARE EVIL KNOW HOW TO GIVE FILTHY RAG GIFTS TO YOUR CHILDREN! GOD SAYS THOSE WHO ARE EVIL KNOW HOW TO GIVE GOOD GIFTS.

I said, was it was the rich young ruler who did not understand who Jesus really is in comparson with who he is. The rich young ruler saw himself EQUAL to Christ and that EQUALITY was expressed by the use of the word "good" being EQUALLY applied to himself as to Christ. He believed he was as "good" as Christ because he believed he could DO "good" as equal as Christ.

Show me one scripture that says that, or repent for preaching things not in the Bible.

He is plainly telling him that unless you are God you have no INHERENT GOODNESS as only God has INHERENT goodness. The Greek term translated "good" or "agathos" refers to INHERENT GOODNESS and only God is inherently Good and one must be inherently good to "do" good! That is precisely why "THERE IS NONE good but one and that is God."

What garbage you speak.
Jesus says if you want to enter life obey the commandments!!!
The rich man asked which ones.
Jesus told him do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, honor your father and mother, and love your neighbor as yourself.
The rich man said he kept those commands since a young boy.
THE BIBLE SAYS Jesus looked at him and loved him.
Do you think that Jesus thought it was bad that the rich man kept those commands since a young boy?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you think that if the man said I have broken all those commands since a young boy the scripture would have said Jesus looked at him and loved him?!

 

[The Biblicist]

I answered your questions. I do not do as you accuse.

You have NEVER confessed you would use the SAME EXACT WORDS Jesus used if that question was asked you. Instead, in every single one of your responses you refuse to use the precise words Jesus used. You change his words and use your own explanation. You are lying again and everyone on this forum knows you are lying and the proof you are lying is YOU CANNOT FIND ONE OF YOUR POSTS that ever respond to this question where you acknolwege you WOULD USE CHRIST'S PRECISE WORDS to answer the same question if you were asked! Find your post where you acknowledge that? I dare you! You have been lying and you are still lying.

 

[Moriah]

There is a fountain filled with blood drawn from Emmanuel's veins; and sinners plunged beneath that flood lose all their guilty stains. Lose all their guilty stains, lose all their guilty stains; and sinners plunged beneath that flood lose all their guilty stains.

2. The dying thief rejoiced to see that fountain in his day; and there may I, though vile as he, wash all my sins away. Wash all my sins away, wash all my sins away; and there may I, though vile as he, wash all my sins away.

3. Dear dying Lamb, thy precious blood shall never lose its power till all the ransomed church of God be saved, to sin no more. Be saved, to sin no more, be saved, to sin no more; till all the ransomed church of God be saved, to sin no more.

4. E'er since, by faith, I saw the stream thy flowing wounds supply, redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be till I die. And shall be till I die, and shall be till I die; redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be till I die.

William Cowper who lived in the 1700's, under the strain of the ministry, went insane. Three times he tried to commit suicide. Sometime after the third attempt he sat down and wrote this hymn that we know so well today. As the Bible teaches, Cowper wrote

"E'er since by faith, I saw the stream thy flowing wounds supply, redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be till I die."

Salvation is by faith, not of works, not of oneself, but by faith and faith alone. It is the gift of God to be received without effort, without any type of work or obedience whatsoever. Just receive the gift by faith. That is what Cowper did, and that is where he found peace. He was a friend of the former slave trader John Newton.

You need to examine John 6:29 carefully.
What shall we DO to have eternal life.
The only thing they could DO was to believe.
It was the only "work" because it wasn't a work. It was a play on words.
Study the passage carefully.

DHK,
I do not go by man’s wisdom, or poems, no matter how craftily put together.

I do think that you meant well by posting that poem, as if to tell me that I do not have to do anything to remain in Jesus’ love, except it is not true.
I love obeying Jesus. I am miserable if I do not obey Jesus. It is not a rest for me to sin.

YOU YOURSELF said drinking is a work.

Believing is like drinking, and they are WORKS.

Jesus says the work of God required is to believe.


Jesus' works are not hard works, they are EASY and LIGHT, see Matthew 11:30.

We are to believe and obey Jesus to be saved, and to remain saved.

All Jesus’ teachings are easy and light works.

The works in the Old Testament were hard.

If you can do the work of believing and it be acceptable to you,
Then you can do all the works Jesus tells you to do.

If you can do the work of believing before you are saved, then do not be afraid to do more works.