You haven't proven it in Scripture. The dictionaries are not inspired. The Scriptures are.
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Dead Faith as taught by the Apostle James
- Thread starter Moriah
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I have proven it from the scriptures, that to repent means to be sorry for your sins. I have proven that repenting without true sorrow is not acceptable to God.
I have proven that the word repent in English, Hebrew, and Greek means to be sorry for sins committed. I have proven this from a Bible dictionary and from a common dictionary. I can prove that in any language, that repent means to be sorry and anything less is not true repentance.
Now, you show repentance does not mean to be sorry. Prove it from scripture; prove it from any dictionary, a Bible dictionary, or a common dictionary.
I am waiting.
What Scripture? Judas was sorry for his sins. Was that your definition of repentance? For that was not repentance.
No you haven't. One can repent without sorrow.
Words have many meanings. That doesn't prove your case. Your case must be proved from Scripture.
Go through the posts. Others have already done that for you. Why do you refuse truth. The very fact that you can't remember definitions shows your rejection of truth. You don't want to listen.
You don't address a word of what I said I believe. Instead, you tell me what I am supposed to believe according to YOU! Deal with what I said I believe! The reason you cannot deal with it is because every word I said is based on scripture and you cannot deal with scripture.
Again, you are telling me what I believe when I do not believe any such thing. I do not believe regeneration occurs prior to faith in the gospel and if you say I do - you are lying! I believe they are simeltaneous inseparable events. In 1 Jn. 5:1 the verb "born" is perfect tense while the participle "believeth" is present tense - go figure!
In Mark 16:16 it is "believeth and is baptized shall be saved." We could add any and all good works after the word "believeth" and yet he that believeth not is damned (Mk. 16:16b) because it is faith that justifies "before God" not baptism, not confession, not church membership, not good works.
I do not find the word "pledge" anywhere in Scripture in reference to baptism. So where do you find the word "pledge"?
The fact is that the scripture still says "he that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved" just as it says
Rom. 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, AND shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
However, you fail to read on where Paul provides a further explanation of what he means:
Rom. 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
The heart obtains the righteousnes by faith - "with the heart man believeth"
The mouth obtains the CONFESSION of that salvation - "with the mouth confession is made"! Guess what the mouth says???? The Lord HAS saved me because I believed in the gospel. Faith precedes the confession or the confession is NO GOOD but EMPTY!
Your interpetation is wrong and easy to prove it is wrong! Look at Hebrews 4:2 - read it and take note of the reason the gospel did not profit them? Not because it promised that Christ would come but had not yet come! Only because in their heart it was "NOT MIXED WITH FAITH IN THEM THAT HEARD IT." It is the SAME GOSPEL preached unto us but the only difference is that those who fell in the wilderness DID NOT BELIEVE it.. Abraham believed it and that is why he went out.
Hebrews 11 is looking at the final obedience of Abraham. He finally did part from his kin, his fathers house and end up in the promised land. However, he did not begin is journey in complete obedience. You cannot simply pick and choose the scripture you like and reject the scriptues you do not like. Genesis 11-15 plainly and clearly teach he was DISOBEDIENT at the beginning and only OBEDIENT ultimately.
If you are talking about his PERSONAL righteosness you are delirious! Remember he got DRUNK. He found "GRACE" not personal merit in the eyes of the Lord. He was a saved man before he built the ark and a preacher of righteousness while building the ark.
You never deal with the evidence placed before you honestly. You alter it, ignore it, change it but never honestly deal with it.
No, it shows that God saves them T
BEY and that is precisely what Ephesians 2:10 explicilty states! They are FIRST "created in Christ Jesus" SECOND "UNTO good works." That is always the Bibical order. They are first SAVED BY GRACE before their obedience is acceptable unto God as the obedience of LOST unregenerated children of Satan is never acceptable to God.What you say is not true.
Simultaneous does not change a thing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
What difference does it make to your beliefs? For you believe that no one can believe or obey. So stop debating something your religion does not even recognize.
I do not mind repeating things to you, for it is the chance that more can hear the truth.
1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
Even if you do not accept the word pledge, it does not change the meaning of 1 Peter 3:21.
See also Romans 6:4.
Baptism illustrates a believer’s identification with Christ’s death, burial, and resurrection. Our old nature is to die and we are to be “buried with Him through baptism into death.” We are buried with the water, and raised out of the water, raised to “walk in newness of life” (live like Jesus).
Picture how baptism looks…the believer comes to make the pledge to God, to die to the sins of the world; so now standing in the water the believer falls back, as if dead; then, the believer goes under the water, buried; then, the believer rises up out of the water, raises up to live a new life.
Romans explain this perfectly.
Romans 6:4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
ARE YOU KIDDING? NOW WHEN YOU WANT TO DEFEND YOUR FALSE RELIGION’S BELIEFS YOU NOW ADMIT WE ARE TO BELIEVE AND REPENT!
People always had to believe AND obey. In the time of Noah, people had to believe and obey. In the time of Abraham, people had to believe and obey AND be circumcised, even believers, even believers and those who obey by not sinning; they still had to be circumcised.
In the time of Moses, people had to believe and obey, they had to believe and obey by not sinning and do good, AND they had to do the ceremonial rules and regulations.
It is always about believing and obeying. Now, we are to believe and obey, but we do not have to do circumcisions and ceremonial rules and regulations.
That is not what scriptures say. Debate somewhere else that Paul is lying, but do not bring it in my thread here.
The scriptures say Noah was righteous and blameless among people, AND HE WALKED WITH GOD.
You are going against God’s Word.
Nowhere do the scriptures say we cannot believe in God after learning of Jesus. The Word of God says we get faith by learning of Jesus.No, it shows that God saves them T
Nowhere do the scriptures say an UNBELIEVER IS GIVEN THE HOLY SPIRIT.
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
True repentance is a result of a godly sorrow.
the New Testament Greek definition for repentance is
Strong's Greek Dictionary
3340. metanoeo
Search for G3340 in KJVSL
metanoew metanoeo met-an-o-eh'-o
from 3326 and 3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):--repent.
See Greek 3326
See Greek 3539
Morally feel compunction. The word compunction is speaking of a pricking of the heart which produces sorrow.
DHK is partially right though, not all sorrow leads to repentance. Judas was sorrowful for his betrayal, but it was not a godly sorrow and did not lead to true repentance.
the New Testament Greek definition for repentance is
Strong's Greek Dictionary
3340. metanoeo
Search for G3340 in KJVSL
metanoew metanoeo met-an-o-eh'-o
from 3326 and 3539; to think differently or afterwards, i.e. reconsider (morally, feel compunction):--repent.
See Greek 3326
See Greek 3539
Morally feel compunction. The word compunction is speaking of a pricking of the heart which produces sorrow.
DHK is partially right though, not all sorrow leads to repentance. Judas was sorrowful for his betrayal, but it was not a godly sorrow and did not lead to true repentance.
You are a hypocrit! You rant and rave against everyone on this forum who does not stick to Biblical language and then you use a non-biblical term "pledge" when the scripture you quote says "symbolizes" and the King James says "like figure." I thought you loved God's Word???? Why don't you stick to God's Word then? You don't like the word "trinity" because it is not found in the Bible but you like the term "pledge" but it is never used of baptism in the Bible - be consistent as inconsistent standards is what hypocrisy is all about!
By the way the translation you use for 1 Peter 3:21 is an inaccurate and bad translation of the Greek term "antitupos" which literally means "like figure" or "like type" or corresponding type/figure. The word "symbolizes" does not properly translate it as this word demands that another figure in the context is being identified with baptism but the word "symoblizes" does not indicate that.
That is an outright lie! Job lived in the time of Abraham and Job did not have to be circumcised. Abraham was justified BEFORE and thus WITHOUT circumcision and this example of Abraham totally destroys your whole system of believe and obey for salvation as he believed and was justified before God when circumcision had not yet been invented. He believed in the gospel and his obedience that followed was DISOBEDIENCE all the way into Palestine as he DISOBYED God's command to leave his kindred and YOU KNOW IT. The writer of Hebrews is looking back at the ULTIMATE obedience of Abraham as he finally separated from Lot and he ULTIMATELY came into Palestine after YEARS of delay in Haran.
However, you want to pick and choose scripture while ignoring other scriptures because they don't fit what you want the Bible to say and what your own theology needs and so you simply ignore Genesis 11-15 that clearly shows Abraham was in DISOBEDEINCE and only PARTIAL obedience and yet he was JUSTIFIED by faith in the Gospel PREIVOUS to coming to Haran, previous to coming to Palestine, previous to being circumcised.
It is about time, that someone else came on to correct DHK of his error on the teaching of the word repent. With all the people who read this debate with DHK, and me someone else finally comes on who did not want to stand by and watch DHK teach error about repentance anymore. The Lord was with me, so I was not alone, but I do not know how anyone could keep quiet so long.
Steadfast Fred, at least you came on, but you had to be half-wrong by standing up for DHK instead of making your rebuke and correction clear and true. Nothing is partially-right about what DHK has been saying about repenting!
DHK is teaching a dead repentance with dead faith. He teaches we do not have to be sorry in your repentance, he teaches a untrue repentance, the kind of repentance the Jews did to cause their righteousness, like repenting, to be a s a filthy rag before God!
The Greek word "metanoeo" literally means "a change of mind." It is a change of direction. The lost unregenerated man loves sin and hates righteousness or as Christ puts it loves darkness and hates light. Gospel Repentance is a change from that condition to loving light and hating darkness. IT is that simple.
You see how God exposes you for what you are and what you teach. The truth gets you and others here so riled up and exposed.
The word ‘pledge’ is from the Holy Bible. Use any translation you want, the truth still comes through to those who know and understand the Lord. If you do not know yet that when you are water baptized, it is your pledge to God that you are dying to the Lord and being raised up to live like Jesus, then you have no understanding at all about baptism.
Abraham had to be circumcised. Moses had to be circumcised. All those in the covenant with God were circumcised, if they were not, they would be cut off.
Genesis 17:14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant."
You are teaching falseness; to teach that they could disobey and still be in right standing with God is a teaching from the devil.
As for the things you are saying about his being disobedient, you are going against Apostle Paul who said Abraham obeyed and went when God told him.
Hebrews 11:8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.
The word "pledge" is NEVER ONCE USED FOR BAPTISM in the Bible - NEVER!
If you "love God's Word" then stick to what God says about a subject instead of applying your own terms to the subject.
He did not have to be circumcised to be justified before God and YOU KNOW IT! He had been justified before God BEFORE he was ever circumcised. Circucmision is explicitly said to be a "sign" and a "seal" and signs and seals do not LITERALLY obtain salvation for anyone but only in FIGURE - 1 Pet. 3:21.
I use the NIV. It is in the Holy Bible.
Do you not understand what a water baptism is?
I have God’s Truth. I do not want any religion or denomination’s truth. What you say to me are mean personal attacks with only evil intent.
Abraham obeyed God before the circumcision. Abraham still had to be circumcised. Consider Moses when Moses did not circumcise his son.
Genesis 17:14 Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant."
Did you not just read Genesis 17:14? Are you still going to argue that a person is saved by only believing? Are you still going to argue that a person who believes, and is justified is a disobedient person?
Repent means to be sorry for your sins and not want to do them anymore. A person can sin by rejecting Jesus, a person can sin by believing and teaching false doctrines, a person can come to Jesus and be sorry for ALL the sins they ever committed. Stop putting a limit on the sins people can confess.
Not everyone is a man who loves sin and hates righteousness.
You teach people that no one can believe in Jesus even after learning of him. You teach people are saved and given the Holy Spirit first before they believe. You speak a false doctrine, a false belief that God gives His Holy Spirit to unbelievers! That is NOWHERE in the scriptures.
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Even when one gives you the right definition of repentance you ignore it, and won't believe them. I told you that a proper definition was given to you already. This is at least the third time that it has been given. But you want to remain in your error. You don't want to listen; don't want to be taught the truth.
Steadfast Fred
Active Member
That's not exactly what I said, Moriah. Go back and read the post again.
A godly sorrow is a part of repentance; i.e., if one is truly sorrowful for one's sins, that sorrow will lead to a turning to God in a repentant act.
You need to go back and read.
You quoted from a Bible dictionary that says repent has to do with being sorry. DHK says repenting has nothing to do with being sorry.
Fred incorporated sorrow from Corinthians when Paul is speaking to believers. Only believers can show "Godly sorrow." The unsaved know nothing about "Godly sorrow." But that is what a believer must show when he repents. Our topic is salvation, not the repentance of a believer from his sin. That is another topic.
2 Corinthians 7:9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.
10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
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Repent means to be sorry, in any language, in any circumstance, before being saved, and after being saved. I hope you consider better, what power came over you, to convince you, that unbelievers do not know that repent means to be sorry, or that repenting to God turns repenting into fakeness. It is never okay to repent to God without being sorry, that is fake repentance.
Godly sorrow is being sorry about a sin and you then repent. Worldly sorrow is when someone is sorrowful, and they get mad, or resentful, they fall into depression, they get hateful…that is worldly sorrow.
a true biblical repentance would be to forsake doing what is wrong/sinful...
Are you saying we must repent and stop all known sinning before god can save us?
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