We have to obey Jesus!

[Moriah]

By definition, there are no unbelievers in any of the local churches.

You repeat error even after given a scripture that plainly shows UNBELIEVERS go to church.

1 Corinthians 14:23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

Why don't you actually answer my post instead of making things up?
Here is what I said:

As I keep saying James is writing to Christians. A Christians faith is evidenced by his works. That is all he is saying. I have never changed my view. The book is not about salvation.

As I said before, it is ridiculousness your beliefs lead to, for if a person says they believe, but they are unknowingly not yet saved, since no one knows yet for sure, you would have no problem telling that person to start obeying Jesus. IF THAT PERSON IS NOT YET SAVED, THEN ACCORDING TO YOUR BELIEFS, AND THE THINGS YOU HAVE BEEN SAYING TO ME, YOU HAVE JUST CONDEMNED THAT PERSON AND YOURSELF FOR TELLING THEM TBEY.

I was speaking of the Book of James. What rabbit trail have you gotten off on? I have no idea what you are talking about.

I know you have no idea what I am explaining.

David said: "Early in the morning I seek thee." He said it more than once. You think David was a fool and spoke nonsense. Is that your attitude to all of the Word of God??

That scripture about David, that is David already saved waking up and thinking of God. I am talking of the scriptures that tell us God seeks us, John 4:23 yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
I am talking about the fact that we are to seek God, Matthew 7:8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

It is not displeasing to God when we look for Him!

However Paul said of the unsaved: "there is none that seeks after God."
You don't believe him either.

That no one seeks God. Paul quoting from Psalms 14:1-3.

1 The fool says in his heart,

“There is no God.”

They are corrupt, their deeds are vile;

there is no one who does good.

The LORD looks down from heaven

on the sons of men

to see if there are any who understand,

any who seek God.

3 All have turned aside,

they have together become corrupt;

there is no one who does good,

not even one.

(End of scriptures)

"All have turned aside," if they are all born totally depraved, how could they have turned aside?

What is King David saying where Paul quotes? At that time the scriptures speak about, it is a sad state of affairs inside Israel. When the day arrived, no one searched for God. Later, they repented, and searched for God. During slavery in Egypt, the Jewish people asked God, if he had forgotten them. DHK, tell us, how could they ask God if He had forgotten them if THEY were not wondering where He had disappeared? They sought God! In the New Testament, when Jesus arrived, people shouted: “Son of David, have mercy on me”. They were looking for the Messiah. In the New Testament a blind man was searching for the Son of God, the prophet’s had said would come.

You do not understand that Paul is explaining that the Jews who were God’s people, they sinned just like the Gentiles did, the Gentiles who were excluded at one time, but now brought near by the gospel.

Nowhere does it say he was seeking God.

The Ethiopian was searching for God; he read the scriptures and invited Philip to sit with him; then he asked Philip a question about Jesus. How you get that that is not searching for God is beyond me.

It doesn't say he was searching or hiding from God.

You are the one who said the unsaved hide from God.

OK, Here is what I want you to do. In your next post to me, I want you to explain to me what part: chains, bracelets, mufflers, bonnets, ornaments of the legs, nose jewels, mantles, wimples, and crisping pins (Isaiah 3:19-21), play in salvation? Please explain how these things save? Did you need crisping pins, mufflers and wimples for you to be saved?
What part did they play in your salvation?

The whole Bible is about salvation. You quoted about the Judgment on Jerusalem and Judah, and you cannot see that it is about salvation?

No it isn't. Faith is not a work.

Jesus says faith is a work. Jesus has light and easy work for believers to do. His works are not burdensome.

 

[DHK]

You repeat error even after given a scripture that plainly shows UNBELIEVERS go to church.

1 Corinthians 14:23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

What does this verse mean (which you have taken out of context)? The context is tongues. Here is a church where many of the Corinthians were speaking in tongues (foreign languages), and all at the same time, with no interpreters. No one knew what each other meant. It was more like the tower of Babel. No one could understand each other.
Now, what would happen in an unsaved visitor would come and visit the church (not a member), and "everyone speaks in tongues...will they not say you are out of your mind?"
--There is no proof here that there are unsaved members. Paul is speaking of an unsaved visitor who witness the chaos and confusion going on in the Corinthian church. The conclusion of the unsaved: "You are mad" (KJV)

As I said before, it is ridiculousness your beliefs lead to, for if a person says they believe, but they are unknowingly not yet saved, since no one knows yet for sure, you would have no problem telling that person to start obeying Jesus.

I have no idea what you are talking about. You have made so many assumptions saying what I would or would not do simply based on my view of the book of James.
What I said about James:
He is teaching that: Genuine faith produces works.
From that one statement you made all of those false assumptions. You need to get your act together.

IF THAT PERSON IS NOT YET SAVED, THEN ACCORDING TO YOUR BELIEFS, AND THE THINGS YOU HAVE BEEN SAYING TO ME, YOU HAVE JUST CONDEMNED THAT PERSON AND YOURSELF FOR TELLING THEM TBEY.

First let me tell you once again. This time take it as kindly advice.
In internet communication it is proper protocol and etiquette not to use all Caps. When the user uses all Caps in on-line discussions (anywhere on the internet) it is a sign to others that he is either shouting or is angry. Those are the emotions that you are displaying for the hundreds that read these posts.
Yes, it does draw attention, as you say, but it is the wrong kind of attention.

Now, if a person is not saved, he cannot obey. It is that simple. How can an unsaved person obey God. He cannot. All obedience is regarded as filthy rags before God. He doesn't want it. He doesn't look at it. In fact he hates it.

Proverbs 21:4 An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.
--The man who plows the field in order to make grain and eventually bread for the community is wickedness in God's sight. "The plowing of the wicked is sin." He cannot do good.

Proverbs 21:27 The sacrifice of the wicked is abomination: how much more, when he bringeth it with a wicked mind?
--It doesn't matter what sacrifices he makes. They are an abomination before God. God doesn't accept the sacrifices of the wicked (the unsaved). All unsaved are wicked in God's eyes. They cannot obey God.

That scripture about David, that is David already saved waking up and thinking of God. I am talking of the scriptures that tell us God seeks us, John 4:23 yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
I am talking about the fact that we are to seek God, Matthew 7:8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

It is not displeasing to God when we look for Him!

No, it isn't. It is not displeasing at all for a believer to seek God. I have emphasized this to you before. Perhaps you are just now beginning to understand.

That no one seeks God. Paul quoting from Psalms 14:1-3.

And this makes a difference, why?

What is King David saying where Paul quotes? At that time the scriptures speak about, it is a sad state of affairs inside Israel. When the day arrived, no one searched for God. Later, they repented, and searched for God.

Paul doesn't give that history and it is irrelevant to the teaching that he is presenting.

During slavery in Egypt, the Jewish people asked God, if he had forgotten them. DHK, tell us, how could they ask God if He had forgotten them if THEY were not wondering where He had disappeared? They sought God! In the New Testament, when Jesus arrived, people shouted: “Son of David, have mercy on me”. They were looking for the Messiah. In the New Testament a blind man was searching for the Son of God, the prophet’s had said would come.

This is not relevant to what Paul was quoting, and why he was quoting the Scripture.

You do not understand that Paul is explaining that the Jews who were God’s people, they sinned just like the Gentiles did, the Gentiles who were excluded at one time, but now brought near by the gospel.

Paul was writing to believers at Rome, who were from both Jewish and Gentile backgrounds. He was writing to them about the sinfulness of mankind which must be established before he writes to them about justification, and why Christ came to die for us. The whole epistle is about salvation. In chapter one he establishes that all Gentiles are sinners; chapter two that all Jews are sinners, and in chapter three all the world, both Jews and Gentiles are sinners. The Scriptures he quotes from the Psalms makes his point very emphatic.
There is none righteous.
There is none that doeth good.
There is none that seeks after God.
They are all gone out of the way.
They are together become unprofitable.

Read the rest of the description. It is inspired of the Holy Spirit. The quotes come not only from Psalms, but from other Scriptures as well. Paul has taken these quotes and put them together to show how depraved ALL of mankind, both Jew and Gentile really is.

The Ethiopian was searching for God; he read the scriptures and invited Philip to sit with him; then he asked Philip a question about Jesus. How you get that that is not searching for God is beyond me.

He was a religious man. You can't read into Scripture that which is not there.
I know of a Muslim that not only read, but memorized word for word, the entire NT. He is still a Muslim. Can you say with all authority that he was seeking after God just because he was memorizing the NT? No, you can't. He is a religious man reading a religious book. That is all that can be assumed.

You are the one who said the unsaved hide from God.

The Muslim that memorized the NT? Do you think he is running to God, or away from God? He is a devout Muslim. The reason for his memorization is apologetic. He wants to be a better witness for Islam, refuting Christians.

The whole Bible is about salvation. You quoted about the Judgment on Jerusalem and Judah, and you cannot see that it is about salvation?

Why can't you answer my question about Isaiah 3 then?
What do crisping pins, mufflers, ornaments of the legs, etc. have to do with being saved. Is that what saved you? A crisping pin?

Jesus says faith is a work. Jesus has light and easy work for believers to do. His works are not burdensome.

Faith is not a work. That statement tells me two things.
1. You don't understand that passage in John 6, and,
2 You don't know what faith is.
--Matthew 11:28-30 is speaking to believers. Yes believers do works out of a love for Christ.

 

[DHK]

Jesus says faith is the work God requires. Jesus says that. However, you say, does Jesus really say that?


We are not in God’s love until we obey. We do not know God unless we obey. So how can you say you obey out of love, obeying is to love.

Here are some of your quotes where you say that works are necessary requirements for salvation.
I want to share with you some of the testimony of Charles Wesley:

Wesley wrote the hymn, "And Can it Be"
This is what one of those verses say:

Long my imprisoned spirit lay,
Fast bound in sin and nature’s night;
Thine eye diffused a quickening ray—
I woke, the dungeon flamed with light;
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee.
My chains fell off, my heart was free,
I rose, went forth, and followed Thee.

[FONT=&quot]This hymn was written by Charles Wesley soon after his own conversion. Looking back, he sees himself as a prisoner in a dark dungeon, chained by the sin which he had committed and even more made captive by the sin which was a part of his very nature. The gospel of Christ - the good news that Christ had died to meet his need - seemed to flood the dungeon with light, break the chains, and set him free. His feeling of guilt was gone. For the first time he seemed to be really alive, because he possessed the supernatural life of Jesus Christ! He could face the final judgement unafraid because he was clothed in the very righteousness of Christ. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]At the time of his conversion, Charles Wesley had already been a rector in the Church of England for three years; he had just returned from a term as missionary to Georgia in the New World. Even before that, he and his brother Jon had earned the derisive name “Methodist” because of the disciplined life which they imposed on themselves and other members of the “Holy Club” at Oxford University. But, in all this religious activity, he had never found spiritual peace; he was not convinced that the life of Christ was really his![/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Note works cannot save! He believed in God. He had good works. But he was not saved. What was wrong? [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Charles Wesley’s salvation occurred on May 20th, 1738. He had been sick in body as well as in spirit. This is when God spoke to him. According to his journal, this confrontation took place after reading the Bible for some time. Following is his account:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]At midnight I gave myself up to Christ: assured I was safe, sleeping or waking. He has continued his experience of his power to overcome temptations; and confessed, with joy and surprise, that he was able to do exceedingly abundantly for me, above what I can ask or think.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Like the experience Charles Wesley describes in this hymn, the old minister learned personally to know God. He realized as we must also, that “doing good” means nothing to God. To accept God’s love and sacrifice for himself was to find the source of the Christian life.[/FONT]
Finally Charles Wesley was born again by the Spirit of God. He had come to a personal relationship with Christ. He had believed. He knew who Christ was. He had plenty of good works. But that was not enough. Salvation is by faith and faith alone.
But if you don't what faith is, what good will it do you?

 

[Moriah]

What does this verse mean (which you have taken out of context)? The context is tongues. Here is a church where many of the Corinthians were speaking in tongues (foreign languages), and all at the same time, with no interpreters. No one knew what each other meant. It was more like the tower of Babel. No one could understand each other.
Now, what would happen in an unsaved visitor would come and visit the church (not a member), and "everyone speaks in tongues...will they not say you are out of your mind?"
--There is no proof here that there are unsaved members. Paul is speaking of an unsaved visitor who witness the chaos and confusion going on in the Corinthian church. The conclusion of the unsaved: "You are mad" (KJV)

DHK, you said no unbelievers went to the churches in the New Testament times. I gave you a scripture that speaks of “unbelievers” going in the church.

What I said about James:
He is teaching that: Genuine faith produces works.

You say a person can have faith and do nothing else. You say a person does not even understand any of God’s word until after they are saved. So then, tell us how that person can have faith if they understand NOTHING. Tell us, how can a person have the genuine faith that saves BUT WHO DID NOT UNDERSTAND ANYTHING?

In internet communication it is proper protocol and etiquette not to use all Caps. When the user uses all Caps in on-line discussions (anywhere on the internet) it is a sign to others that he is either shouting or is angry.

I have already explained it to you that my all caps are to highlight what I am saying and there is no anger. Stop trying to make judgments on mere appearances. If you want to take it as speaking in a loud voice, that would be okay.

All obedience is regarded as filthy rags before God. He doesn't want it. He doesn't look at it. In fact he hates it.

That sounds like a doctrine from demons. Who else would start a doctrine claiming, “All obedience is regarded as filthy rags before God.” It is not as a filthy rag to obey God. It is a filthy rag to do a righteous act like repenting BUT NOT REALLY BE SORRY. Repenting is a righteous act. Repenting but not really being sorry is a righteous act turned into a filthy rag.

Proverbs 21:4 An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.
--The man who plows the field in order to make grain and eventually bread for the community is wickedness in God's sight. "The plowing of the wicked is sin." He cannot do good.

WOW. That is NOT what Proverbs 21:4 is saying.

It is not displeasing at all for a believer to seek God. I have emphasized this to you before.

Why would someone who is already saved look for God to be saved. A believer does not mean they are already saved. A believer seeks God to be saved.

Paul doesn't give that history and it is irrelevant to the teaching that he is presenting.

Paul is not JUST quoting Psalms 14, Paul is quoting many scriptures in Romans 3, WHEN HE IS EXPLAINING THAT THE JEWS ARE SINNERS JUST LIKE THE GENTILES, even though the Jew had the law.

I know of a Muslim that not only read, but memorized word for word, the entire NT. He is still a Muslim. Can you say with all authority that he was seeking after God just because he was memorizing the NT? No, you can't. He is a religious man reading a religious book. That is all that can be assumed.

You err when you compare a Jew believing in the Old Testament to a Muslim who believes in the Qur’an but reads the Old Testament.

Why can't you answer my question about Isaiah 3 then?
What do crisping pins, mufflers, ornaments of the legs, etc. have to do with being saved. Is that what saved you? A crisping pin?

It is about salvation.

Faith is not a work. That statement tells me two things.
1. You don't understand that passage in John 6, and,
2 You don't know what faith is.
--Matthew 11:28-30 is speaking to believers. Yes believers do works out of a love for Christ.

We have to believe and obey.

Jesus says faith is a work.

You still have not explained how you eat Jesus.

The Bible says to have an answer. I am still waiting for your answer.

Something else I am still waiting for you to answer, and that is why does God choose those He saves?

Those two questions I do not believe you can answer.

 

[Yeshua1]

DHK, you said no unbelievers went to the churches in the New Testament times. I gave you a scripture that speaks of “unbelievers” going in the church.



You say a person can have faith and do nothing else. You say a person does not even understand any of God’s word until after they are saved. So then, tell us how that person can have faith if they understand NOTHING. Tell us, how can a person have the genuine faith that saves BUT WHO DID NOT UNDERSTAND ANYTHING?



I have already explained it to you that my all caps are to highlight what I am saying and there is no anger. Stop trying to make judgments on mere appearances. If you want to take it as speaking in a loud voice, that would be okay.



That sounds like a doctrine from demons. Who else would start a doctrine claiming, “All obedience is regarded as filthy rags before God.” It is not as a filthy rag to obey God. It is a filthy rag to do a righteous act like repenting BUT NOT REALLY BE SORRY. Repenting is a righteous act. Repenting but not really being sorry is a righteous act turned into a filthy rag.


WOW. That is NOT what Proverbs 21:4 is saying.


Why would someone who is already saved look for God to be saved. A believer does not mean they are already saved. A believer seeks God to be saved.



Paul is not JUST quoting Psalms 14, Paul is quoting many scriptures in Romans 3, WHEN HE IS EXPLAINING THAT THE JEWS ARE SINNERS JUST LIKE THE GENTILES, even though the Jew had the law.



You err when you compare a Jew believing in the Old Testament to a Muslim who believes in the Qur’an but reads the Old Testament.



It is about salvation.


We have to believe and obey.

Jesus says faith is a work.

You still have not explained how you eat Jesus.

The Bible says to have an answer. I am still waiting for your answer.

Something else I am still waiting for you to answer, and that is why does God choose those He saves?

Those two questions I do not believe you can answer.

Where did jesus tell us faith is a work?

 

[Moriah]

Where did jesus tell us faith is a work?

John 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

 

[DHK]

DHK, you said no unbelievers went to the churches in the New Testament times. I gave you a scripture that speaks of “unbelievers” going in the church.

No you didn't. You ignore context.
Go to chapter one. Note that Paul wrote the letter to the members of the church at Corinth--to the saints, specifically:

to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

No unbeliever fits into that category.
Then look at the verse you gave me. The gist of the verse is: If an unbeliever observes you, what will they say? The unbeliever would be a visitor, not a member. He may just be passing by an outdoor meeting, a meeting held in a nearby cemetery. There were no church buildings in those days. Those didn't come into being until at least 300 years later.

You say a person can have faith and do nothing else. You say a person does not even understand any of God’s word until after they are saved. So then, tell us how that person can have faith if they understand NOTHING. Tell us, how can a person have the genuine faith that saves BUT WHO DID NOT UNDERSTAND ANYTHING?

First, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
Second, the Holy Spirit works through the Word of God.
Third, the Word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword. It alone is able to pierce the heart.
Fourth, God uses men. "Go and preach the gospel to every creature," is the command Jesus gave to every Christian. He did not give that command to angels or bovines. He gave it to men. The entire world has never been evangelized.

I have already explained it to you that my all caps are to highlight what I am saying and there is no anger. Stop trying to make judgments on mere appearances. If you want to take it as speaking in a loud voice, that would be okay.

You can believe that white is black and black is white. You can believe that this icon :laugh: is a sad face, but that doesn't mean it is. You can believe whatever you want. You have that privilege. But that doesn't make it true. I have told you what CAPS are recognized all over the world, internationally. You can't change the world's internet language by saying they are wrong and you are right. That is just the way it is.

That sounds like a doctrine from demons. Who else would start a doctrine claiming, “All obedience is regarded as filthy rags before God.” It is not as a filthy rag to obey God. It is a filthy rag to do a righteous act like repenting BUT NOT REALLY BE SORRY. Repenting is a righteous act. Repenting but not really being sorry is a righteous act turned into a filthy rag.

If God says it you better believe it. And calling doctrine from God Himself, doctrine of demons, is nothing short of blasphemy. God does not accept the works of unsaved man. I have given you one example after another; one scripture after another, and you have no rebuttal.

WOW. That is NOT what Proverbs 21:4 is saying.

Then what is it saying?

Why would someone who is already saved look for God to be saved. A believer does not mean they are already saved. A believer seeks God to be saved.

I never said a saved person should look for God to be saved did I.
Do you like to lie?

Paul is not JUST quoting Psalms 14, Paul is quoting many scriptures in Romans 3, WHEN HE IS EXPLAINING THAT THE JEWS ARE SINNERS JUST LIKE THE GENTILES, even though the Jew had the law.

Throughout the whole chapter.
For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
All means all--both Jews and Gentiles.

You err when you compare a Jew believing in the Old Testament to a Muslim who believes in the Qur’an but reads the Old Testament.

Today both Judaism and Islam are both false religions.
Today both Jews and Muslims must come through Christ to be saved.

It is about salvation.

You make me laugh!
Tell me how it is about salvation. Here it is again:

Why can't you answer my question about Isaiah 3 then?
What do crisping pins, mufflers, ornaments of the legs, etc. have to do with being saved. Is that what saved you? A crisping pin?

Faith is not a work. That statement tells me two things.
1. You don't understand that passage in John 6, and,
2 You don't know what faith is.
--Matthew 11:28-30 is speaking to believers. Yes believers do works out of a love for Christ.

We have to believe and obey.

For salvation? No! Salvation is by faith and faith alone. If you include "obey" that is heresy.

Jesus says faith is a work.

You don't understand what Jesus said in John 6:29. That is obvious. Faith is not a work. Will you pay me for my faith. Will you hire me for having faith?

You still have not explained how you eat Jesus.

Yes I have; you won't accept my explanation.

The Bible says to have an answer. I am still waiting for your answer.

One answer is sufficient.

Something else I am still waiting for you to answer, and that is why does God choose those He saves?

You tell me; you are the one pushing Calvinism here.

Those two questions I do not believe you can answer.

I can give more detailed answers; I am still waiting for you to give a more adequate answer on how crisping pins and mufflers save you?

 

[Moriah]

No you didn't. You ignore context.
Go to chapter one. Note that Paul wrote the letter to the members of the church at Corinth--to the saints, specifically:

I have shown you numerous times that this scripture confirms that fact that unbelievers went in the churches in the New Testament times.

1 Corinthians 14:23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

First, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God.
Second, the Holy Spirit works through the Word of God.
Third, the Word of God is alive and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword. It alone is able to pierce the heart.
Fourth, God uses men. "Go and preach the gospel to every creature," is the command Jesus gave to every Christian. He did not give that command to angels or bovines. He gave it to men.

You have not explained you beliefs. You said no one can understand anything that God says, so HOW DO WE BELIEVE?

If God says it you better believe it. And calling doctrine from God Himself, doctrine of demons, is nothing short of blasphemy. God does not accept the works of unsaved man. I have given you one example after another; one scripture after another, and you have no rebuttal.

Again, It is not as a filthy rag to obey God.

Then what is it saying?

Proverbs 21:4 Haughty eyes and a proud heart, the lamp of the wicked, are sin!

It is not about being a farmer and plowing crops. lol

I never said a saved person should look for God to be saved did I.
Do you like to lie?

You used the scripture of David waking in the morning thinking of God as proof only the saved can search for God.

Today both Judaism and Islam are both false religions.
Today both Jews and Muslims must come through Christ to be saved.

Stay focused, we are talking about the eunuch who Philip helped save.

You make me laugh!
Tell me how it is about salvation. Here it is again:

Why can't you answer my question about Isaiah 3 then?
What do crisping pins, mufflers, ornaments of the legs, etc. have to do with being saved. Is that what saved you? A crisping pin?

You make me laugh too.
It is about salvation. I would explain it but you still will not see it.

Faith is not a work. That statement tells me two things.
1. You don't understand that passage in John 6, and,
2 You don't know what faith is.
--Matthew 11:28-30 is speaking to believers. Yes believers do works out of a love for Christ.

Faith is a work. I will believe Jesus and not you.

John 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

For salvation? No! Salvation is by faith and faith alone. If you include "obey" that is heresy.

Consider carefully these powerful and beautiful words of Jesus Christ.

John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”

Did you hear that? He who loves Jesus is the one who obeys him. God will love those who love Jesus, and Jesus will love him too, AND SHOW HIMSELF TO HIM. You do not even know Jesus if you do not obey him.

Jesus will give us the Holy Spirit when we obey his teachings.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

1 John 3:24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

1 John 4:20 If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

Luke 11:28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

John 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.


John 15:10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

Romans 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

Romans 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him—

Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

1 John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.

1 John 2:5 But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:

1 John 3:24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.


Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

You don't understand what Jesus said in John 6:29. That is obvious. Faith is not a work. Will you pay me for my faith. Will you hire me for having faith?

The snake said to Eve, “Did God really say…..”

Jesus really said faith is a work.

We do not have to do anything to help Jesus in paying for our sins; however, we have to do some things for Jesus to choose to save us and give us the gift.

Yes I have; you won't accept my explanation.

You have not explained how you eat Jesus. You do not know how to answer that question, or you would.

I can give more detailed answers; I am still waiting for you to give a more adequate answer on how crisping pins and mufflers save you?

You tell me how you eat Jesus, and why God chooses those He saves, then I will tell you how crisping pins and mufflers will not save you.

 

[DHK]

I have shown you numerous times that this scripture confirms that fact that unbelievers went in the churches in the New Testament times.

1 Corinthians 14:23 So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind?

Same old. Same old. You don't even read the verse you quote do you. You just copy and paste it, and then post your opinion. That is it. Right?
What does it say? Pay attention!
or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are not out of your mind.

"unbelievers come in" means visitors coming in unexpectedly; not regular members of the church. Why are you forcing a meaning that is not there?

You have not explained you beliefs. You said no one can understand anything that God says, so HOW DO WE BELIEVE?

Like the Eunuch did.
How can I understand unless someone show me.
And Philip began at the same Scripture and preached unto him Jesus.
Later he confessed Christ and was saved because he had trusted him by faith alone.

Again, It is not as a filthy rag to obey God.

You cannot obey God if you are not saved. Do you not remember the testimony of Charles Wesley that I gave you. At one point in his life Wesley said: "I save others, but alas, who will save me!" But his good works, even in evangelization were as filthy rags in the sight of God, for he was not saved.

Proverbs 21:4 Haughty eyes and a proud heart, the lamp of the wicked, are sin!

It is not about being a farmer and plowing crops. lol

There is no "lol" about it.
I can give you half a dozen translations with either "lamp" or "plow". Where does the evidence lie.
For me the evidence lies in the meaning of the word itself:

[FONT=&quot]נִיר[/FONT] niyr neer
or nir {neer}; from 5214; properly, plowing, i.e. (concretely) freshly plowed land:—fallow ground, plowing, tillage. (Strong's)

From Barnes:

The plowing - The Hebrew word, with a change in its vowel points, may signify either:

(1) the "fallow field," the "tillage" of Pr 13:23, or

(2) the lamp.

According to:

(1) the verse would mean, "The outward signs of pride, the proud heart, the broad lands of the wicked, all are evil."

(2) however, belongs, as it were, to the language of the time and of the book Pr 13:9; 24:20. The "lamp of the wicked" is their outwardly bright prosperity.

Albert Barnes shows how it can be translated either way. Remember the OT was written in Hebrew, and there was no vowel pointing for centuries. The Masoretes put that in for us much later which made it easier for us to read. I consider two factors in its translation:
1. The meaning of the word itself. It doesn't give a definition of "lamp."
2. I trust the translation of the KJV translators more than most modern translators. They were 54 of the most brilliant scholars of their time. And the translation is a literal translation, not a paraphrase or one that uses dynamic equivalency. It is one that I can trust.

You used the scripture of David waking in the morning thinking of God as proof only the saved can search for God.

Search, yes; save, no.

Psalms 27:8 When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, LORD, will I seek.

Psalms 63:1 [SIZE=-1]A Psalm of David, [/SIZE] O God, thou art my God; early will I seek thee: my soul thirsteth for thee, my flesh longeth for thee in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is;

David was a saved man, a believer. He expresses the desire of every believer who is right with God. He does not express the desire of any unsaved man.

Stay focused, we are talking about the eunuch who Philip helped save.

The Eunuch was a Jew. He needed to be saved. Salvation was and is, only through Christ. Judaism could not save him. Philip had the message of salvation, and could give him that message by grace through faith alone through the OT book of Isaiah, from which the Eunuch was reading. "He preached unto him Jesus."

You make me laugh too.
It is about salvation. I would explain it but you still will not see it.

Crisping pins and mufflers? Do you wear them? Leg ornaments too? Are they requirements for your salvation? You are the one insisting it is about salvation; in fact that all the Bible is about salvation. Are the instructions given to Timothy about how women should dress modestly and how widows should be treated also about salvation?

Faith is a work. I will believe Jesus and not you.

John 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

First you are not believing Jesus for you do not even understand what Jesus is saying. He is making a play on words. Try and understand. They asked him, What must We Do to work the works of God.
What is the answer?
He did not list a list of "works". There is only one "so-called work".
The "work of God" is to believe. Everything else is vanity. All that God wants from you is faith. It is faith plus nothing. Can you see that now? Christ is saying: faith alone! Call it a work now if you wish. But he is teaching that salvation is by faith alone. No obedience is involved. It is by faith alone. If faith is a work, then, all other things (baptism, prayer, etc., are not works). But Jesus was making a play on words. He was simply teaching that salvation is by faith alone.

 

[DHK]

Consider carefully these powerful and beautiful words of Jesus Christ.

John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”

Did you hear that? He who loves Jesus is the one who obeys him. God will love those who love Jesus, and Jesus will love him too, AND SHOW HIMSELF TO HIM. You do not even know Jesus if you do not obey him.

Jesus will give us the Holy Spirit when we obey his teachings.

No, Jesus was speaking to his disciples. They were already saved. He doesn't command the unsaved to obey in order to be saved.

John 14:23 Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

He is speaking to Christians who don't need to be saved.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

This is taken out of context. They are speaking before the Sanhedrin in their own defense. They are witnesses of the death and resurrection of Christ. The Sanhedrin crucified him. They needed to repent. There is the context of "their obedience."

1 John 3:24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

1 John 4:20 If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

This epistle is written to Christians. They don't need to be saved.

Luke 11:28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

Those that are blessed are the saved.

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

John 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

John 15:10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

All of these verses were spoken to the disciples, not to the unsaved.

Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

Paul is speaking of the Jews.

Romans 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

Paul is speaking about believers.

Romans 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him—

Look at the word order: That they first might believe, and then after salvation they might obey.

Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

You use the same verses over and over again.
Christ is the source of our salvation. After salvation we obey him, not before. Then there wouldn't be any point in calling him the Author, would there?

1 John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.

1 John 2:5 But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:

1 John 3:24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

More Scripture written to Christians.

Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

This one is written to the pastor of a church.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.

Written to Jews.

Acts 20:21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

He is giving his testimony to the Ephesian elders. It is what he did in the past. The repentance was not repent from, but repent toward.

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Again, this is a testimony. He is giving his defense before King Agrippa.

Acts 2:38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Peter is preaching to the very ones that crucified the Lord. He is preaching to those who gathered on the Day of Pentecost, about one hundred thousand Jews.

Jesus really said faith is a work.

Actually he was teaching salvation is by faith and faith alone.

We do not have to do anything to help Jesus in paying for our sins; however, we have to do some things for Jesus to choose to save us and give us the gift.

Do you have children. Do you give them gifts at Christmas? Do you have a list of works that your children must do in order to "earn" their gift? Was your salvation also "earned" by your works? I thought you just said it was a gift. You can't have it both ways. It is either a gift--given unconditionally with no strings attached, not worked for. It is not a gift and works are involved.

You have not explained how you eat Jesus. You do not know how to answer that question, or you would.

Oh taste and see that the Lord is good. Read the word and taste of Him.
This is at least the third time that I have given you this answer. If you don't like the answer too bad. But don't ask again.

You tell me how you eat Jesus, and why God chooses those He saves, then I will tell you how crisping pins and mufflers will not save you.

God chooses those that believe on his name.
I have done my part. I will be waiting.

 

[Moriah]

Same old. Same old. You don't even read the verse you quote do you. You just copy and paste it, and then post your opinion. That is it. Right?
What does it say? Pay attention!
or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are not out of your mind.

"unbelievers come in" means visitors coming in unexpectedly; not regular members of the church. Why are you forcing a meaning that is not there?

You just fight the truth no matter how obvious. The scripture proves that UNBELIEVERS can come to the churches in the New Testament. You said no unbelievers were in the churches of those days, you tried to be confusing and throw the Reader off by trying to act as if I was beginning to speak about speaking in tongues. You want to sound right at all costs, you even try to speak in a belittling way to me, in an effort to build yourself up.

The scripture proves that unbelievers can go to the churches. This scripture also proves you wrong on many of your doctrines where you insist it’s not for searchers of the Truth, but those already saved.

Like the Eunuch did.
How can I understand unless someone show me.
And Philip began at the same Scripture and preached unto him Jesus.
Later he confessed Christ and was saved because he had trusted him by faith alone.

YOU said NNE could believe ANYTHING about God UNTIL after we are saved. Are you now admitting error in your beliefs? You say here that Philip explained to the eunuch, so obviously we can understand enough to believe AND OBEY.

You cannot obey God if you are not saved. Do you not remember the testimony of Charles Wesley that I gave you. At one point in his life Wesley said: "I save others, but alas, who will save me!" But his good works, even in evangelization were as filthy rags in the sight of God, for he was not saved.

You see here, you repeat your error when you say, “You cannot obey God if you are not saved.” Now go back to where you explained about the eunuch UNDERSTANDING enough to be saved.

Your doctrines are riddled with contradictions. It is confusion that you speak.

Crisping pins and mufflers? Do you wear them? Leg ornaments too? Are they requirements for your salvation? You are the one insisting it is about salvation; in fact that all the Bible is about salvation. Are the instructions given to Timothy about how women should dress modestly and how widows should be treated also about salvation?

The whole Bible is about salvation.

First you are not believing Jesus for you do not even understand what Jesus is saying. He is making a play on words. Try and understand. They asked him, What must We Do to work the works of God.

Jesus was not “making a play on words.” That sounds like something the snake was trying to get Eve to believe when he said, “Did God really say…?”

 

[Moriah]

No, Jesus was speaking to his disciples. They were already saved. He doesn't command the unsaved to obey in order to be saved.

You make no sense. Of course, Jesus commands the unsaved to believe and obey.

He is speaking to Christians who don't need to be saved.

Jesus is speaking about ANYONE who wants the Holy Spirit.

This is taken out of context. They are speaking before the Sanhedrin in their own defense. They are witnesses of the death and resurrection of Christ. The Sanhedrin crucified him. They needed to repent. There is the context of "their obedience."

You are doing more of the “Did God really say…?” tactic.

All of these verses were spoken to the disciples, not to the unsaved.

Jesus is speaking to all. If what you said were anywhere near the truth, then Jesus would not need to tell them “If you love me.” Not only that, Jesus says those who do not love him do not obey him, so how do you think someone who hates Jesus can be saved?

Paul is speaking of the Jews.

There are not different gospels for different people.

You use the same verses over and over again.
Christ is the source of our salvation. After salvation we obey him, not before. Then there wouldn't be any point in calling him the Author, would there?

We are to obey before being saved to be saved, and we continue to be saved.

More Scripture written to Christians.

Scriptures written to Christians, AND ALL WHO WANT TO BE A CHRISTIAN.

This one is written to the pastor of a church.

No, DHK, that scripture is for all.

Written to Jews.

Again, there are not different gospels for different people.

Do you have children. Do you give them gifts at Christmas? Do you have a list of works that your children must do in order to "earn" their gift? Was your salvation also "earned" by your works? I thought you just said it was a gift. You can't have it both ways. It is either a gift--given unconditionally with no strings attached, not worked for. It is not a gift and works are involved.

God’s ways are not our ways. You are not even a child of God until God who knows your heart accepts you.

Oh taste and see that the Lord is good. Read the word and taste of Him.
This is at least the third time that I have given you this answer. If you don't like the answer too bad. But don't ask again.

All you know how to do is say the Lord tastes good, but you still do not explain how you eat Jesus. I knew you could not.

 

[DHK]

You just fight the truth no matter how obvious. The scripture proves that UNBELIEVERS can come to the churches in the New Testament. You said no unbelievers were in the churches of those days, you tried to be confusing and throw the Reader off by trying to act as if I was beginning to speak about speaking in tongues. You want to sound right at all costs, you even try to speak in a belittling way to me, in an effort to build yourself up.

We have unbelievers enter our church as well. They are called visitors. You refuse to admit your mistake when I specifically gave you Scripture from the first chapter of the book where Paul said he was writing to the saints at Corinth, not the visitors or unbelievers at Corinth.
The entire 14th chapter speaks of the abuse of tongues in the church, especially the verse you quoted. If an unbeliever, a visitor comes in, and sees the confusion, all of you speaking in tongues at once, will he not conclude that you are all mad? Yes he would, is the implied answer to the rhetorical question. Why do you have such a hard time understanding such a simple verse? It is because you refuse.

The scripture proves that unbelievers can go to the churches. This scripture also proves you wrong on many of your doctrines where you insist it’s not for searchers of the Truth, but those already saved.

They were visitors, not members. And the Corinthians had a bad testimony. Keep it up and you will have a bad testimony too.

YOU said NNE could believe ANYTHING about God UNTIL after we are saved. Are you now admitting error in your beliefs? You say here that Philip explained to the eunuch, so obviously we can understand enough to believe AND OBEY.

He didn't obey until his eyes were opened to the Scripture and he was saved. Then after he confessed that he was saved, he obeyed the Lord in baptism.

You see here, you repeat your error when you say, “You cannot obey God if you are not saved.” Now go back to where you explained about the eunuch UNDERSTANDING enough to be saved.

Your doctrines are riddled with contradictions. It is confusion that you speak.

No contradiction. You can't obey God unless you are first saved. What is so hard to believe about that wonderful truth?

The whole Bible is about salvation.

So why haven't you told me about crisping pins and mufflers and how they saved you? LOL

Jesus was not “making a play on words.” That sounds like something the snake was trying to get Eve to believe when he said, “Did God really say…?”

To refer to Christ as a serpent is one thing--blasphemy.
But to just admit that you don't understand the passage would have been much better.

 

[Moriah]

We have unbelievers enter our church as well. They are called visitors. You refuse to admit your mistake when I specifically gave you Scripture from the first chapter of the book where Paul said he was writing to the saints at Corinth, not the visitors or unbelievers at Corinth.
The entire 14th chapter speaks of the abuse of tongues in the church, especially the verse you quoted. If an unbeliever, a visitor comes in, and sees the confusion, all of you speaking in tongues at once, will he not conclude that you are all mad? Yes he would, is the implied answer to the rhetorical question. Why do you have such a hard time understanding such a simple verse? It is because you refuse.

The scripture was to show you that UNBELEIVERS go in to churches in the New Testament times. Nothing more nothing less, it was to correct your false teaching that NO UNBELIEVERS went to the churches in the New Testament times.

He didn't obey until his eyes were opened to the Scripture and he was saved. Then after he confessed that he was saved, he obeyed the Lord in baptism.

You do not answer the question and defend your doctrines. YOU said NNE could believe ANYTHING about God UNTIL after we are saved, if that is true, then explain how anyone can believe what they do not understand?

No contradiction. You can't obey God unless you are first saved. What is so hard to believe about that wonderful truth?

Your beliefs are full of contradictions and nonsense. Tell us, if a person gets Jesus’ teachings, and wants Jesus to save him, and reads that sex before marriage is a sin, so he marries his girlfriend, is that possible to do before he is saved? Of course, it is possible to get Jesus’ teachings and obey them before we are saved.

To refer to Christ as a serpent is one thing--blasphemy.
But to just admit that you don't understand the passage would have been much better.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?
Every time I hear you or Catholics or any one say Jesus did not really mean something, I think of the scripture where the snake got Eve to sin by asking her, “Did God really say…”?
Jesus REALLY said faith is a work.
John 6:19 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

 

[DHK]

The scripture was to show you that UNBELEIVERS go in to churches in the New Testament times. Nothing more nothing less, it was to correct your false teaching that NO UNBELIEVERS went to the churches in the New Testament times.

My stand has never changed, but if you are just beginning to understand it I am glad for you. I have said from the very beginning that NT churches are composed of baptized believers. No unsaved person is a member of a NT church. Paul wrote to believers, "the sanctified in Christ." If a visitor who is unsaved happened to come into the church and observe the chaos and confusion going on, by seeing all of them speak in tongues all at the same time would he not say: "Ye are mad." And yes, he would. This has been my position from the very beginning.
I am glad that you are just beginning to agree with me now.

You do not answer the question and defend your doctrines. YOU said NNE could believe ANYTHING about God UNTIL after we are saved, if that is true, then explain how anyone can believe what they do not understand?

The Eunuch was reading Isaiah. He could not understand it.
Philip asked him if he could understand it. He answered NO.
How can I understand unless some man help me?
Then Philip starting from the same Scripture preached unto him Jesus.
He did not understand the Scriptures until someone came along and explained them to him. On his own he could not understand them.

A Muslim memorized the entire NT. If he truly understood that which he memorized he would be saved. But he is blind to the truth. He needs "someone to show him."

Your beliefs are full of contradictions and nonsense. Tell us, if a person gets Jesus’ teachings, and wants Jesus to save him, and reads that sex before marriage is a sin, so he marries his girlfriend, is that possible to do before he is saved? Of course, it is possible to get Jesus’ teachings and obey them before we are saved.

Romans 2:14,15 teaches that all mankind has God's moral law written on the heart of man. We know God's law by nature. Our conscience tells us what is wrong and what is not. It tells us when we have done wrong. We, by nature, accuse others and excuse ourselves from sin. People know intuitively that sex before marriage is wrong. But that doesn't stop them from doing it. They don't need a Bible to know it is wrong. They don't need a Bible to know that murder, lying, and stealing are wrong either.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?
Every time I hear you or Catholics or any one say Jesus did not really mean something, I think of the scripture where the snake got Eve to sin by asking her, “Did God really say…”?
Jesus REALLY said faith is a work.
John 6:19 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

I cannot force you to believe a verse you do not understand. But for you to attribute the true meaning of the verse to Satan is unconscionable.

 

[Moriah]

I have said from the very beginning that NT churches are composed of baptized believers. No unsaved person is a member of a NT church. Paul wrote to believers, "the sanctified in Christ." If a visitor who is unsaved happened to come into the church and observe the chaos and confusion going on, by seeing all of them speak in tongues all at the same time would he not say: "Ye are mad." And yes, he would. This has been my position from the very beginning.

Paul wrote to anyone interested in God’s Truth. The scripture I gave proves it. If Paul did not write also for the unbelievers coming in, then why does Paul CARE about WHAT THE UNBELIEVERS THINK? The scripture was to show you that UNBELEIVERS go in to churches in the New Testament times. Nothing more nothing less, it was to correct your false teaching that NO UNBELIEVERS went to the churches in the New Testament times.

The Eunuch was reading Isaiah. He could not understand it.
Philip asked him if he could understand it. He answered NO. How can I understand unless some man help me?
Then Philip starting from the same Scripture preached unto him Jesus.
He did not understand the Scriptures until someone came along and explained them to him. On his own he could not understand them.

LOL…The eunuch was reading the Old Testament. How does that prove anything you are trying to say? The eunuch was not reading the New Testament. In addition, are you saying the eunuch did not obey God while he was a Jew?

A Muslim memorized the entire NT. If he truly understood that which he memorized he would be saved. But he is blind to the truth. He needs "someone to show him."

A person can have the truth explained to them; it does not mean they will understand. A person has to obey.

Just reading the scriptures do not mean you will be righteous. We must obey.
Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

Romans 2:14,15 teaches that all mankind has God's moral law written on the heart of man. We know God's law by nature. Our conscience tells us what is wrong and what is not. It tells us when we have done wrong. We, by nature, accuse others and excuse ourselves from sin. People know intuitively that sex before marriage is wrong. But that doesn't stop them from doing it. They don't need a Bible to know it is wrong. They don't need a Bible to know that murder, lying, and stealing are wrong either.

Ha ha ha You are the one who says we can do NOTHING God says to do before we are saved. You have so many contradictions in your beliefs and teachings. Your beliefs are full of confusion.

I cannot force you to believe a verse you do not understand. But for you to attribute the true meaning of the verse to Satan is unconscionable.

What is unconscionable is you do not believe Jesus when he says the work of God is to believe in the one he has sent.

 

[DHK]

Paul wrote to anyone interested in God’s Truth. The scripture I gave proves it. If Paul did not write also for the unbelievers coming in, then why does Paul CARE about WHAT THE UNBELIEVERS THINK? The scripture was to show you that UNBELEIVERS go in to churches in the New Testament times. Nothing more nothing less, it was to correct your false teaching that NO UNBELIEVERS went to the churches in the New Testament times.

My stance still has not changed. It is scriptural.
1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
--Those are the ones that Paul wrote to. He did not write to any unbelievers as that greeting clearly shows.
In NT churches, just as in our churches today, we welcome unbelievers to come and sit under the sound of the gospel or the preaching. This is what Paul was referring to. In an unbeliever enter in and hear you all speak in tongues at one time will he not think that ye are all mad? And the answer is yes. The unbeliever is not "on of them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus," but a visitor.

LOL…The eunuch was reading the Old Testament. How does that prove anything you are trying to say? The eunuch was not reading the New Testament. In addition, are you saying the eunuch did not obey God while he was a Jew?

Judaism is a false religion. They had just finished rejecting Christ and crucifying him. The only way to heaven is through Christ. Philip preached Jesus to the Eunuch through the Book of Isaiah. If you can't do the same, then you need to do some serious Bible study. Obedience to a false religion is as filthy rags in God's sight.

A person can have the truth explained to them; it does not mean they will understand. A person has to obey.

They may or may not understand.
If they understand they must receive Christ. They cannot obey until the receive Christ as Savior. Obedience follows.

Just reading the scriptures do not mean you will be righteous. We must obey.

I never said that just reading the Scriptures will make you righteous. Obedience to the Scriptures will not make you righteous either. Only faith in Christ will. Unless your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees you cannot enter into the kingdom of God. The righteousness Christ is referring to is the righteousness of Jesus Christ obtainable only by faith in Christ. Unless you have that righteousness you cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

A scripture taken out of context again. Paul was speaking about the Jews. Immediately after that he contrasts the Jews to the Gentiles.

Ha ha ha You are the one who says we can do NOTHING God says to do before we are saved. You have so many contradictions in your beliefs and teachings. Your beliefs are full of confusion.

You can do many good works before your saved. Mother Theresa did. But all of those good works are as filthy rags before God. They all count for nothing. Unless one knows Christ as Savior no amount of good works will merit you anything before God.

What is unconscionable is you do not believe Jesus when he says the work of God is to believe in the one he has sent.

Study the passage carefully. You will notice that the passage is teaching that salvation is by faith and faith alone. Anything outside of faith is a work, not faith itself. For faith cannot be a work. That is what the passage is teaching.

 

[Moriah]

My stance still has not changed. It is scriptural.
1 Corinthians 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
--Those are the ones that Paul wrote to. He did not write to any unbelievers as that greeting clearly shows.
In NT churches, just as in our churches today, we welcome unbelievers to come and sit under the sound of the gospel or the preaching. This is what Paul was referring to. In an unbeliever enter in and hear you all speak in tongues at one time will he not think that ye are all mad? And the answer is yes. The unbeliever is not "on of them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus," but a visitor.

You said unbelievers did not go to the churches in the New Testament times, I have proven you wrong with scripture.

Judaism is a false religion.

Judaism is not a false religion back then.

Philip preached Jesus to the Eunuch through the Book of Isaiah. If you can't do the same, then you need to do some serious Bible study.

Philip did not preach Jesus only through the Book of Isaiah…lol…Philip preached Jesus from the New Testament, for Philip was taught about Jesus by Jesus himself.

Philip taught the eunuch about Jesus and the New Testament/New Covenant.

They may or may not understand.
If they understand they must receive Christ.

What do you mean “if” they understand…you said earlier that no one could understand until after they are saved? I am showing that your beliefs do not make sense. You say a person can understand nothing before they are saved, so then, how do they understand and believe? Are you a Calvinist?

They cannot obey until the receive Christ as Savior. Obedience follows.

Believing is obeying. If they can understand enough to obey by believing, then why can they not do ANYTHING else, like confess?

I never said that just reading the Scriptures will make you righteous.

You are the one who brought up the Muslim who reads the scriptures. I explained that reading the scriptures does not mean anything.

Obedience to the Scriptures will not make you righteous either.

Obedience to the scriptures will make you righteous. The Bible says it will.

For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

Only faith in Christ will.

Faith in Jesus is obeying the scriptures.

A scripture taken out of context again. Paul was speaking about the Jews. Immediately after that he contrasts the Jews to the Gentiles.

There is no scripture taken out of context. Romans 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

It is plain and clear, obedience leads to righteousness. We must obey.

You can do many good works before your saved. Mother Theresa did. But all of those good works are as filthy rags before God. They all count for nothing. Unless one knows Christ as Savior no amount of good works will merit you anything before God.

Are you kidding? Mother Theresa did what God says not to do, how do you call that good works?

Study the passage carefully. You will notice that the passage is teaching that salvation is by faith and faith alone. Anything outside of faith is a work, not faith itself. For faith cannot be a work. That is what the passage is teaching.

Obeying is a work. Jesus tells us to believe. Believing is a work. We do not have to do the works of the Old Testament to make ourselves clean for worshipping God. People misunderstand Paul.

 

[DHK]

You said unbelievers did not go to the churches in the New Testament times, I have proven you wrong with scripture.

Unbelievers did not go to church as members. Don't put words in my mouth. Stop misrepresenting what I have said.

Judaism is not a false religion back then.

They crucified Christ, nailed him to the cross, spat in his face, put a crown of thorns on his brow, scourged him, and totally rejected him. They were judged of God for doing so. Their hatred for the King of kings was noted. The offer of the Kingdom was taken from them and given to another. They are spiritually blinded now. What they do have is a false religion, as false as Islam. The only way to be saved is through Christ--salvation through his atoning work, by faith alone.

Philip did not preach Jesus only through the Book of Isaiah…lol…Philip preached Jesus from the New Testament, for Philip was taught about Jesus by Jesus himself.

This event happened about 44 A.D. The first book of the NT was not written until after 50 A.D. Philip did not have any NT. Do you not believe the Scriptures?

Philip taught the eunuch about Jesus and the New Testament/New Covenant.

There were no NT scriptures. You need to believe the Word of God.

Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

He began at that same Scripture, "In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth," (Isa.53:8), and preached unto him Jesus.
--There was no NT, but the gospel is clearly delineated in Isaiah 53. Any Christian who studies their Bible should be able to present the gospel through Isaiah 53.

What do you mean “if” they understand…you said earlier that no one could understand until after they are saved? I am showing that your beliefs do not make sense. You say a person can understand nothing before they are saved, so then, how do they understand and believe? Are you a Calvinist?

Not everyone understands the gospel the first time it is explained to them.
Apparently the Eunuch did, but we don't even know that for sure. It may have taken Philip a number of times on that long journey back to Ethiopia. They did have lots of time.

Believing is obeying. If they can understand enough to obey by believing, then why can they not do ANYTHING else, like confess?

Faith is not an act of obedience. It is not a work. We are not saved by works. That is a false gospel. One is saved by grace through faith and not of works. The Bible couldn't be any plainer. I am not sure why you reject the plain teaching of Eph. 2:8,9.

You are the one who brought up the Muslim who reads the scriptures. I explained that reading the scriptures does not mean anything.

That is right. It is a work, just like prayer is a work. No amount of works or obedience can save. Only trusting Christ by faith and faith alone can save.

Obedience to the scriptures will make you righteous. The Bible says it will.

The Pharisees were obedient in many things but they were not righteous. Jesus said that their father was the devil. No, the Bible doesn't say what you claims it says. Only the blood of Jesus can make one righteous. And that comes by faith alone.

For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

No, one is made righteous only through faith in the shed blood of Christ.

Faith in Jesus is obeying the scriptures.

Faith is not a work.

There is no scripture taken out of context. Romans 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

It is plain and clear, obedience leads to righteousness. We must obey.

I never said Christians shouldn't obey the Lord, and that is what those verses teach. Paul is writing to believers. He is not explaining one to be saved, but to live a Christian life in this chapter.

Are you kidding? Mother Theresa did what God says not to do, how do you call that good works?

Raising a child is a good work.
Working in a leprosy colony (as she did) is a good work.
Working in an orphanage is a good work.
In the eyes of the world all of these are good works.
In fact in the eyes of God they would be good works if the person was saved. But since we are talking of the unsaved, all works are an abomination in his sight. The unsaved cannot do good in His sight.

Obeying is a work. Jesus tells us to believe. Believing is a work. We do not have to do the works of the Old Testament to make ourselves clean for worshipping God. People misunderstand Paul.

Faith is not a work; in that you do err. Study your Bible. Study Romans 4:1-6. Paul specifically states that faith is not a work. Believe him.

 

[Moriah]

Unbelievers did not go to church as members. Don't put words in my mouth. Stop misrepresenting what I have said.

You stop misrepresenting and accusing me falsely. You said unbelievers did not go to the churches in the New Testament. I gave you scripture proving you wrong.

They crucified Christ, nailed him to the cross, spat in his face, put a crown of thorns on his brow, scourged him, and totally rejected him. They were judged of God for doing so. Their hatred for the King of kings was noted. The offer of the Kingdom was taken from them and given to another. They are spiritually blinded now. What they do have is a false religion, as false as Islam. The only way to be saved is through Christ--salvation through his atoning work, by faith alone.

Judaism is not a false religion. The Old Testament is God’s Word about God’s Word. It is a false religion to reject Jesus. The Jews can be grafted back in if they do not persist in unbelief that is what the Bible says.

This event happened about 44 A.D. The first book of the NT was not written until after 50 A.D. Philip did not have any NT. Do you not believe the Scriptures?

Lol…What does it matter if the New Testament was written yet? Jesus taught Philip personally while he was on earth and through the Holy Spirit after his ascension.

There were no NT scriptures. You need to believe the Word of God.

Again, Jesus taught Philip while Jesus was on earth and through the Holy Spirit after his ascension. What Jesus taught Philip IS the New Testament.

--There was no NT, but the gospel is clearly delineated in Isaiah 53. Any Christian who studies their Bible should be able to present the gospel through Isaiah 53.

You sure do have a hard time, maybe if you were not so busy trying to speak rude to me you might understand.

Not everyone understands the gospel the first time it is explained to them.
Apparently the Eunuch did, but we don't even know that for sure. It may have taken Philip a number of times on that long journey back to Ethiopia. They did have lots of time.

You said no one understands ANYTHING of the word of God until AFTER they are saved. You said no one could obey until after they are saved. So then, how could they believe in what they have no idea?

Faith is not an act of obedience. It is not a work. We are not saved by works. That is a false gospel. One is saved by grace through faith and not of works. The Bible couldn't be any plainer. I am not sure why you reject the plain teaching of Eph. 2:8,9.

The works of the Old Testament do not save us, for Jesus atoned for our sins, God nailed the rules and regulations to the cross, but we have to obey the New Testament.

That is right. It is a work, just like prayer is a work. No amount of works or obedience can save. Only trusting Christ by faith and faith alone can save.

Faith is a work. We also have to repent. People are to prepare the way for Jesus in their life, repent, and turn to God, Acts 3:19. Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. Hebrews 4:1.

The Pharisees were obedient in many things but they were not righteous. Jesus said that their father was the devil. No, the Bible doesn't say what you claims it says. Only the blood of Jesus can make one righteous. And that comes by faith alone.

Your reasoning is illogical. The Pharisees did not believe in Jesus, and they did not obey Jesus, for they added to God’s word, thus nullifying God’s word.

Raising a child is a good work.
Working in a leprosy colony (as she did) is a good work.
Working in an orphanage is a good work.
In the eyes of the world all of these are good works.
In fact in the eyes of God they would be good works if the person was saved. But since we are talking of the unsaved, all works are an abomination in his sight. The unsaved cannot do good in His sight.

Mother Theresa went against God’s word.