We have to obey Jesus!

[DHK]

Judaism is not a false religion. The Old Testament is God’s Word about God’s Word. It is a false religion to reject Jesus. The Jews can be grafted back in if they do not persist in unbelief that is what the Bible says.

If it is a true religion the best advice I can give to you is to forsake Christianity and become a Jew. For, as you say, it is not a false religion, then by default, it must be the true religion and not Christianity. Christ said "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes unto the Father but by me." If Judaism is that "Way" then you better follow it.

Lol…What does it matter if the New Testament was written yet? Jesus taught Philip personally while he was on earth and through the Holy Spirit after his ascension.
Again, Jesus taught Philip while Jesus was on earth and through the Holy Spirit after his ascension. What Jesus taught Philip IS the New Testament.

You do err not knowing the Scriptures.
This Philip was not an apostle. He was chosen by the church of Jerusalem to serve the Apostles, to free them up so they could give themselves to the word and to prayer. Their purpose (Philip, Stephen, etc.) were to serve tables (Acts 6:1ff.). There is no indication that this Philip ever witnessed the resurrection of Jesus Christ or was ever his earthly disciple. His age is not given. He no doubt learned from the Apostles themselves.

Acts 6:4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.
5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:
Acts 6:6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.

You sure do have a hard time, maybe if you were not so busy trying to speak rude to me you might understand.

I understand that Philip took the OT (Isaiah) and from it preached Jesus.
I understand that Philip was not an Apostle.
I understand that Philip was chosen to be a servant of the church at Jerusalem, and was not taught by Jesus at all.
I understand that Philip did not have so much as even one book of the NT.
I understand that Philip, using only the book of Isaiah, preached Jesus to the Eunuch, and the Eunuch trusted Christ. That is what I understand. And I believe it to be a correct understanding of the Scriptures.

You said no one understands ANYTHING of the word of God until AFTER they are saved. You said no one could obey until after they are saved. So then, how could they believe in what they have no idea?

Did Mother Theresa?
The Eunuch could only understand because Philip explained it to him.

The works of the Old Testament do not save us, for Jesus atoned for our sins, God nailed the rules and regulations to the cross, but we have to obey the New Testament.

If Christ did not nail all our sins to the cross his death was in vain.

Faith is a work. We also have to repent. People are to prepare the way for Jesus in their life, repent, and turn to God, Acts 3:19. Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. Hebrews 4:1.

Faith is not a work. You have not studied Romans 4 yet.
Righteousness was imputed to Abraham by faith.
He that works not is the one that God justifies.
The Scripture is very plain in Romans 4:1-6.

Your reasoning is illogical. The Pharisees did not believe in Jesus, and they did not obey Jesus, for they added to God’s word, thus nullifying God’s word.

We are talking of obedience. In many things they obeyed. In many things Christians do not obey. Obedience does not save. It does not keep a believer saved, and it does not save an unbeliever whether that person be a Mother Theresa or a Pharisee. Obedience and/or good works does not and cannot save.

Mother Theresa went against God’s word.

So did the Pharisees as noted above.
So do you as long as you hold to a false gospel of faith plus works equals salvation, for salvation is by grace through faith and not of works, as the Bible states. There is no amount of good works in all the world that can get one to heaven, for works do not save. Faith alone in Christ saves.

 

[Moriah]

For, as you say, it is not a false religion, then by default, it must be the true religion and not Christianity. If Judaism is that "Way" then you better follow it.

How does one even talk as you do. The Old Testament is not a false religion.

True believers are grafted into the cultivated olive tree. A man is a Jew if he is one inwardly.

You do err not knowing the Scriptures.
This Philip was not an apostle. There is no indication that this Philip ever witnessed the resurrection of Jesus Christ or was ever his earthly disciple. His age is not given. He no doubt learned from the Apostles themselves.

Why is it so hard for you to understand? What does it matter if you do not believe the Philip spoken of was an apostle or not? The Philip that spoke to the Ethiopian was learned in the New Testament, what does it matter that it was not written down yet? When Philip led the Ethiopian to understand that it was Jesus spoken of in Isaiah, it was through knowledge of Jesus and the New Testament that Philip was able to explain to the eunuch.

Why is it you will not answer the question? Tell us, if a person cannot understand anything until after he is saved, as you say, then how can they believe in Jesus at all if they understand nothing?

 

[Yeshua1]

If it is a true religion the best advice I can give to you is to forsake Christianity and become a Jew. For, as you say, it is not a false religion, then by default, it must be the true religion and not Christianity. Christ said "I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes unto the Father but by me." If Judaism is that "Way" then you better follow it.

You do err not knowing the Scriptures.
This Philip was not an apostle. He was chosen by the church of Jerusalem to serve the Apostles, to free them up so they could give themselves to the word and to prayer. Their purpose (Philip, Stephen, etc.) were to serve tables (Acts 6:1ff.). There is no indication that this Philip ever witnessed the resurrection of Jesus Christ or was ever his earthly disciple. His age is not given. He no doubt learned from the Apostles themselves.

Acts 6:4 But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word.
5 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:
Acts 6:6 Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.

I understand that Philip took the OT (Isaiah) and from it preached Jesus.
I understand that Philip was not an Apostle.
I understand that Philip was chosen to be a servant of the church at Jerusalem, and was not taught by Jesus at all.
I understand that Philip did not have so much as even one book of the NT.
I understand that Philip, using only the book of Isaiah, preached Jesus to the Eunuch, and the Eunuch trusted Christ. That is what I understand. And I believe it to be a correct understanding of the Scriptures.

Did Mother Theresa?
The Eunuch could only understand because Philip explained it to him.

If Christ did not nail all our sins to the cross his death was in vain.

Faith is not a work. You have not studied Romans 4 yet.
Righteousness was imputed to Abraham by faith.
He that works not is the one that God justifies.
The Scripture is very plain in Romans 4:1-6.

We are talking of obedience. In many things they obeyed. In many things Christians do not obey. Obedience does not save. It does not keep a believer saved, and it does not save an unbeliever whether that person be a Mother Theresa or a Pharisee. Obedience and/or good works does not and cannot save.

So did the Pharisees as noted above.
So do you as long as you hold to a false gospel of faith plus works equals salvation, for salvation is by grace through faith and not of works, as the Bible states. There is no amount of good works in all the world that can get one to heaven, for works do not save. Faith alone in Christ saves.

Would say that "Biblical Judasism" f the old testament was valid, as the Lord give it to isreal, but that the BIG problem was that the jews over time had created intepratations and traditions of men that made it null and void!

Today, it is same as islam in the sense that no other "relion" other than Christianity brings one to a saving relationship, forgiven by God!

 

[DHK]

How does one even talk as you do. The Old Testament is not a false religion.

Then why haven't you become a Jew?
Why did 3,000 on the Day of Pentecost forsake Judaism and become Christians. They were persecuted for their decisions both by Rome and their own families.

 

[Moriah]

Then why haven't you become a Jew?
Why did 3,000 on the Day of Pentecost forsake Judaism and become Christians. They were persecuted for their decisions both by Rome and their own families.

People did not "forsake Judaism." Jesus fulfilled the scriptures. Jesus is the Word of God. Do you not know these things?

 

[DHK]

People did not "forsake Judaism." Jesus fulfilled the scriptures. Jesus is the Word of God. Do you not know these things?

Hebrews 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

There is no Judaism. There is no priesthood. The only priest that now exists is HE who continues forever and has an unchangeable priesthood. Only through him; He is able to save them to the uttermost--those that come to God by him.

The only way of salvation is through Christ. Once Christ died on the cross the Jewish system was over. It was no longer in effect. Christ is the one and only sacrifice. No other sacrifice is needed, thus Judaism is passe. It now is a false religion, and has been ever since Christ was crucified.

 

[Moriah]

Hebrews 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.
25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

There is no Judaism. There is no priesthood. The only priest that now exists is HE who continues forever and has an unchangeable priesthood. Only through him; He is able to save them to the uttermost--those that come to God by him.

The only way of salvation is through Christ. Once Christ died on the cross the Jewish system was over. It was no longer in effect. Christ is the one and only sacrifice. No other sacrifice is needed, thus Judaism is passe. It now is a false religion, and has been ever since Christ was crucified.

DHK,

The Old Testament is the Old Covenant. The New Testament is the New Testament. The old is obsolete. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness.

Now, about the OP…we have to obey Jesus.

We have to drink and eat Jesus. We have to believe and obey.

What would you tell a person who said they believe but do not feel as though they were saved, would you not tell them to start obeying?

If he were not really saved yet, you have just told him to obey and that makes you and him accursed if he tries to obey, according to what you have said here. How many times have you sinned in such a way unknowingly? lol

 

[DHK]

DHK,

The Old Testament is the Old Covenant. The New Testament is the New Testament. The old is obsolete. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness.

The old is obsolete, making Judaism a false religion. I am glad you agree with me now.

 

[Moriah]

The old is obsolete, making Judaism a false religion. I am glad you agree with me now.

I do not play your little games. You are trying to derail my thread with arguments and teaching of your own imagination.
You were being deceitful in acting as if I said something I did not.
If you did not know what you were doing, then you have some serious problems along with your false doctrines.

 

[DHK]

I do not play your little games. You are trying to derail my thread with arguments and teaching of your own imagination.
You were being deceitful in acting as if I said something I did not.
If you did not know what you were doing, then you have some serious problems along with your false doctrines.

It is a debate forum. I don't consider it "your thread." What you call "your little games" is your inability to coherently and intelligently answer a post, as well as admit you are wrong when you know you are.

Now tell me, why is every one who comes on this board and debates you wrong. You are the only one that is right, according to you? You say I have false doctrine, quite a serious accusation. You are not a Baptist. I don't know what you are because you fail to identify yourself. But you come here and say that everyone is wrong and you alone are right. Doesn't that in itself give you some cause for concern?

 

[Moriah]

It is a debate forum. I don't consider it "your thread." What you call "your little games" is your inability to coherently and intelligently answer a post, as well as admit you are wrong when you know you are.

Now tell me, why is every one who comes on this board and debates you wrong. You are the only one that is right, according to you? You say I have false doctrine, quite a serious accusation. You are not a Baptist. I don't know what you are because you fail to identify yourself. But you come here and say that everyone is wrong and you alone are right. Doesn't that in itself give you some cause for concern?

Here you go again with shameful debate tactics. I have read posts from others in the group that are truthful. So stop with the slander against me.
You said Judaism was a false religion. I told you that it was not a false religion, and that it was old, and replaced by the new. I told you that Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament. You are trying to play some strange game that is not a debate tactic anyone should engage in, whether they say they are a Christian or not.

 

[DHK]

Here you go again with shameful debate tactics. I have read posts from others in the group that are truthful. So stop with the slander against me.
You said Judaism was a false religion. I told you that it was not a false religion, and that it was old, and replaced by the new. I told you that Jesus fulfilled the Old Testament. You are trying to play some strange game that is not a debate tactic anyone should engage in, whether they say they are a Christian or not.

During Paul's ministry he prayed for the salvation of the Jews. They still existed as a nation.
Today they still exist as a nation.
Again, in Paul's time he said this:

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

There are three groups of people delineated here and one can only be a member of one of them. You are either:
1. a Jew.
2. a Gentile
3. of the church of God.

There are no other options.
Just as you can't be a pagan Christian, you can't be a Jewish Christian. It is one or the other.

Judaism is alive and well. You can visit the "holy land" today. You can join Iran in his fight to decimate Israel, if that is your wish. Israel and Israel's religion still exists today. It has not gone away. But it is a false religion. It has rejected Christ; continue to believe in it and you will go to hell. For it rejects Christ. It is not the true religion. It is a false religion and has been a false religion ever since the committed the crime of crucifying Christ.

Judaism was not replaced by the church or any other form of Christianity.
That is called Replacement Theology and it is a heretical theology.
Israel still exists today; they have not been replaced.

 

[Fred's Wife]

During Paul's ministry he prayed for the salvation of the Jews. They still existed as a nation.
Today they still exist as a nation.
Again, in Paul's time he said this:

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

There are three groups of people delineated here and one can only be a member of one of them. You are either:
1. a Jew.
2. a Gentile
3. of the church of God.

There are no other options.

I agree. A Jew or a Gentile who is born again is a member of the church/body of Christ.

Just as you can't be a pagan Christian, you can't be a Jewish Christian. It is one or the other.

A Jew who trusts Christ still remains a Jew ethnically, but they no longer practice the "religion" of Judaism. I know many Jews who are born again Christians. There are some Jewish converts who remain "Torah Observant", but that's another topic for another thread.

Judaism is alive and well. You can visit the "holy land" today. You can join Iran in his fight to decimate Israel, if that is your wish. Israel and Israel's religion still exists today. It has not gone away. But it is a false religion. It has rejected Christ; continue to believe in it and you will go to hell. For it rejects Christ. It is not the true religion. It is a false religion and has been a false religion ever since the committed the crime of crucifying Christ.

Judaism was not replaced by the church or any other form of Christianity.
That is called Replacement Theology and it is a heretical theology.
Israel still exists today; they have not been replaced.

:thumbsup:

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

 

[Moriah]

During Paul's ministry he prayed for the salvation of the Jews. They still existed as a nation.
Today they still exist as a nation.
Again, in Paul's time he said this:

1 Corinthians 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:

There are three groups of people delineated here and one can only be a member of one of them. You are either:
1. a Jew.
2. a Gentile
3. of the church of God.

There are no other options.
Just as you can't be a pagan Christian, you can't be a Jewish Christian. It is one or the other.

Judaism is alive and well. You can visit the "holy land" today. You can join Iran in his fight to decimate Israel, if that is your wish. Israel and Israel's religion still exists today. It has not gone away. But it is a false religion. It has rejected Christ; continue to believe in it and you will go to hell. For it rejects Christ. It is not the true religion. It is a false religion and has been a false religion ever since the committed the crime of crucifying Christ.

Judaism was not replaced by the church or any other form of Christianity.
That is called Replacement Theology and it is a heretical theology.
Israel still exists today; they have not been replaced.

The Old Testament is the Old Covenant; the New Covenant has replaced it. The Old Covenant is not false; it is the words of God. People sin when they reject Jesus. The Old Covenant does not tell people to reject Jesus, the Old Covenant is not false, it has been replaced for the New Covenant.

HTH

 

[Yeshua1]

I agree. A Jew or a Gentile who is born again is a member of the church/body of Christ.

A Jew who trusts Christ still remains a Jew ethnically, but they no longer practice the "religion" of Judaism. I know many Jews who are born again Christians. There are some Jewish converts who remain "Torah Observant", but that's another topic for another thread.

:thumbsup:

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Think that one has to see that there was "proper" Judaism rthat God have to isreal under the Old Covenant, mainly seen in the sacrifical system, bu that by time of jesus, the leaders had perverted it by making their interpretations and traditions equal to the Torah of god!

So it was valid during times of the old covevant, but became "compromised" during time of jesus, and today is NOT a way to be in relationship Covenant wise with God,a s that is under new Covevant of yeshua!

 

[savedbymercy]

Because of our relationship with Jesus Christ, we are seen as completly rightious.

The sinless perfection of Christ has been given, or "credited" to us.

Its the doctrine of imputed rightiousness.

We have been completly freed from the law. We live in the newness of the Spirit. and NOT the oldness of the letter.

The reason is because "the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life."

Good point, I will add:

Ye are complete in Him !



Col 2:10

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

This is speaking of God's Elect Col 3:12

12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

The Whole Election of Grace Rom 11:5 has always in the reckoning of God and in His Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:11 been complete in Christ Jesus; For no more complete are they in Him after conversion as before it, after faith than before it !

That word complete in the greek is the word plēroō and it means:


of matters of duty: to perform, execute

2) of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish

3) to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment

Christ has fully obeyed God's Law as it should be, for all the Elect of God. The Elect of God are born sinners already having had Christ to do and accomplish this for them Before God's Law and Justice, they just until faith revealed it to them, did not know anything about it !

Also the word complete in the verse is in the Perfect Tense in the greek which is defined as:

The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated.
And God views Each member of the Election of Grace as having completely fulfilled His Law in every detail in their lives, once and for all !

 

[Moriah]

Good point, I will add:

Ye are complete in Him !



Col 2:10

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:

This is speaking of God's Elect Col 3:12

12 Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

The Whole Election of Grace Rom 11:5 has always in the reckoning of God and in His Purpose in Christ Jesus Eph 3:11 been complete in Christ Jesus; For no more complete are they in Him after conversion as before it, after faith than before it !

That word complete in the greek is the word plēroō and it means:


of matters of duty: to perform, execute

2) of sayings, promises, prophecies, to bring to pass, ratify, accomplish

3) to fulfil, i.e. to cause God's will (as made known in the law) to be obeyed as it should be, and God's promises (given through the prophets) to receive fulfilment

Christ has fully obeyed God's Law as it should be, for all the Elect of God. The Elect of God are born sinners already having had Christ to do and accomplish this for them Before God's Law and Justice, they just until faith revealed it to them, did not know anything about it !

Also the word complete in the verse is in the Perfect Tense in the greek which is defined as:

We are holy and perfect to God through Jesus. This does not mean we do not have to do anything after being saved, and it does not mean that we can do nothing in order for God to choose to save us.

 

[Yeshua1]

We are holy and perfect to God through Jesus. This does not mean we do not have to do anything after being saved, and it does not mean that we can do nothing in order for God to choose to save us.

Christians do have "much to do" after getting saved, as we will be conforming into Image of Christ, and that is a lifelong ongoing process!

 

[Moriah]

Christians do have "much to do" after getting saved, as we will be conforming into Image of Christ, and that is a lifelong ongoing process!

Do you believe that we have to obey after we are saved? DHK says that we do not have to obey after we are saved and we will remain saved. However, the Bible says if we walk in darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth, and the person who has deceived themselves. DHK speaks untruths, and I love showing the Truth with the written Word of God.

As for you saying, we have much to do after being saved, then how can you think that we have no idea before we are saved that we have to obey? That is what DHK says, that we can understand nothing of God’s word before we are saved. Do you believe that nonsense too? If you do not believe like that, then do you correct him and others who say such things?

Since we have so much to do after we are saved, how can you not understand that God wants to make sure we know that fact before we are saved, even if it means that we do some obeying before we are saved.

 

[Yeshua1]

Do you believe that we have to obey after we are saved? DHK says that we do not have to obey after we are saved and we will remain saved. However, the Bible says if we walk in darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth, and the person who has deceived themselves. DHK speaks untruths, and I love showing the Truth with the written Word of God.

As for you saying, we have much to do after being saved, then how can you think that we have no idea before we are saved that we have to obey? That is what DHK says, that we can understand nothing of God’s word before we are saved. Do you believe that nonsense too? If you do not believe like that, then do you correct him and others who say such things?

Since we have so much to do after we are saved, how can you not understand that God wants to make sure we know that fact before we are saved, even if it means that we do some obeying before we are saved.

Believe in the Word of God!

saved by grace/faith ALONE by the Lord, and once saved by him, we than Are indeed expected to obey him, but that is what our new natures will want to do, but still have to overcome old sin natures in us by reckoning our bodies dead to sin, now alive in Christ, and rely upon the empowering of the Holy spirit!

DHK NOT saying Christians should not obey God, he is saying do it out of love for Him, as we live to please him, not to obey in order to get or kept saved!