Featured Is there any historical evidence for the Baptist position on Baptism?

Yes you did when you said.

 

Quite so. And that is why when anything is placed on the same level as scripture, error abounds.

 

Read your own words! The very nature of your argument demands that as you insist that Timothy could not be taught by the Scriptures but rather by oral traditions. However, both his parents were quite aware of the Old Testament test - Isa. 8:20 and would also teach Timothy not to believe a word they said that could not be confirmed by scriptures as the scriptuers explicitly demand that and he was taught the scriptures was he not??????

The apostles were prophets and their oral witness preceded their written witness. However, as prophets what they said and wrote was subject to the the tests of the prophets recorded in the scriptures rather than the test of ORAL traditions!!!!! Both their oral and written statements were subject to the scriptures and that is precisely why Paul called the Bereans more "noble" because they refused to accept ORAL TRADITION BY THE APOSTLE as final but tested it and only when it passed the test of scriptures did they receive it.

After their death the same procedure would be necessitated by scriptures. Any professed ORAL TRADITION would be first subjected to the written apostolic scriptures and whatever was validated by the apostolic scriptures would be received as truth. Hence, this process COMPLETELY ELIMINATED oral traditions altogether as only what was found in scriptures was approved and thus nothing more than scriptures were necessary and final as authority for doctrine, instruction, correction and reproof.

The Apostles are not living today! In Acts 15 They had not yet produced the New Testament scriptures (Isa. 8:16-20). They were prophets and spoke under inspiration.

 

ALL but a few WERE recognized by ALL as being the inspired texts from the original writers of the NT!

RCC did NOT create the Bible, it was already complete pretty and officially ised/recognized by the end of the Apostolic Age!

 

you have to realise that those "traditions" were doctrines that paul was inspired by God to pass on! he received as a "tradition " that jesus was the humble Servant of the Lord in Phillipians, and also that Jesus said this at last supper...

big point is that the Apostle recorded down what the Lord intended him to write, the canon is closed, the bible is ONLY revelation from God to us!

traditions were perserved that were true by God thru His Apsotles, no more "living traditions",as no more forthcoming revelation from God!

traditions were truths that were true, but not divinly revealed to paul, or other Apostles, or they were spoken words from Apostles, which would be inspired truth, justvas the OT prophets when speaking or writting for God were inspired and gave revelation from God!

 

Here is what I posted originally:

"Official" catholic teachers have always had a difficult time with the facts. The Inquisitors summoned Galileo to a hearing and threatened to throw him into a dungeon and possibly torture him until he recanted concerning the fact that the earth revolved around the sun. In 1992 Pope John Paul II officially conceded that the Earth was not stationary -- it revolved around the sun."

That is fact.

 

None the less... the scientific method came from the university system created by the RCC. Taking it a little further, the Catholic Church pretty much created Western Civilization.

WM

 

Read some history and then get back to me.

I know very well how the Internet developed. One of my professors was involved in ARPANET and later went on to be the first person to network the New York Stock Exchange.

Feel better now?

WM

 

See my reply in red within your post.

 

In all honesty, if you really "studied history" then you couldn't possibly deny the importance of the RCC's influence on the development of Western Civilization and culture. For heaven's sake... it's what led mankind out of the Dark Ages and into the Renaissance! One doesn't need to study much history to discover that fact - a Western Civ 101 class would be sufficient.

WM

 

Exactly so that is what the Catholic Church is speaking about when it speaks about tradition. And that coupled with the scriptures are the deposit of faith!!!

The Canon is currently closed and what Jesus directly to the apostles are revelations from God not just what was writen down. However, it was a while before canon was closed. That is to say that doesn't mean all the books weren't already written but which books were to be canon wasn't decided until some time later. From the Catachism

exactly as the catachism says

They were inspired truths (which is a revelation from God. But you are on the same track as the Catholic Thinking about this from the Catachism.

So we are generally in agreement with this. However, because of this the Catholic church goes on to say.

 

Did you read the facts I presented to you about the Galileo affair? How you are mistaken is very similar to how Al Gore claimed to have inveneted the internet. Which was originally developed by professors of universities staying in contact which the contracted under the Advanced Research Project Agency which Al Gore supported when he came into office after its inseption by funding it because he wanted highspeed telecommunications. With the advances of TCP/IP architechture its develpment became taken over by the Department of Defence for development in the 80's and in the mid 80's the National Science Foundation spread it further and further developed it. The universities of Minnisota and Nevada made it more user friendly and finally one of the developers started Netscape browser until Microsoft beat it out. And now we have the internet. Its an over simplification and not quite true that Al Gore invented the internet. So it is with your over simplification of what happened to Galileo and the Pope.

 

Who said I denied the RCC influence on that? Don't put words in my mouth.

 

Thank you for your history lesson about the internet.

I am sufficiently informed about Galileo and the Church.

 

Which is my point

Show me a document which establishes all of the books of the NT which are now accepted as canon recognizing all the books at the end of the apostolic age. We know for instance that Tertullian held to the inspiration of the Shepherd of Hermas by quoting it in his work De oratione.

 

I think not with your over simplification of the facts.

 

Well, we are at an impasse because I know that I did not oversimplify anything.

However, I wish you God's grace and blessing.

 

Thank you and I ask for God's grace and mercy on your life that you may have a full and wonderful life culminating in the glorious resurrection and being numbered among his saints.

 

And I pray and wish the same for you, and I look forward to meeting you there, if not before.