The Contextual definition of Faith in Romans 4:16-23

[Moriah]

So again you cannot answer the questions I asked. All you can do is come back making personal accusations, the very thing you condemned me doing to you, you are now doing to me! Doesn't the Word of God call that a "hypocrit"???

You are very confused. I answered your questions and you come back with false quotes and false accusations.

The scripture you quote is about the Jews who helped in their cleansing before God, when they did ceremonial washings. That scripture you quote is about the Jews who still think they must do something before coming to God, like observance of special days, like offerings - Moriah

Here are the scriptures that promoted your response above:

Rom. 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

This is about the Jews. Do you not understand that? This is about the Jews and the works of the law like ceremonial washings, observance of special days, fellowship offerings, etc. THE JEWS WERE A PART OF THEIR OWN CLEANSINGS.

Lk. 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

This is about the Pharisees NOT repenting to be saved. THAT IS WHAT YOU TEACH.

Mt. 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

This is about people who claim they prophesy and cast out demons in the name of Jesus, yet they keep sinning!

Tell me, what does not being a "extortioners, unjust, adulterers...I fast twice a week...give tithes" have anything to do with becoming a Jew or with ceremonial laws????

The Pharisees would NOT repent. The Jews had the ceremonial law to make them clean before God.

Tell me, what does confessing "Lord, Lord" and "in thy name" and "having done many wonderful works" have to do with becoming a Jew or ceremonial laws?

You are the one who brought us these scriptures that you do not understand.
The scripture where Jesus says I never knew you; those are about people who would not stop sinning. Are you not angry with me for saying I give up sins.

These are all "works" and many are obedience to the Ten commandments (adulterers) and thus "good" works and yet that did not save them, did not justify them and so how do you think they will save or justify you any more than them as they did them "in thy name" and confessing him as "Lord, Lord"?

We have to repent before we are saved. You did not, just as the Pharisees did not.
We are to stop sinning. You however speak against such a thing.

 

[The Biblicist]

You are very confused. I answered your questions and you come back with false quotes and false accusations.


This is about the Jews. Do you not understand that? This is about the Jews and the works of the law like ceremonial washings, observance of special days, fellowship offerings, etc. THE JEWS WERE A PART OF THEIR OWN CLEANSINGS.

This is about the Pharisees NOT repenting to be saved. THAT IS WHAT YOU TEACH.


This is about people who claim they prophesy and cast out demons in the name of Jesus, yet they keep sinning!


The Pharisees would NOT repent. The Jews had the ceremonial law to make them clean before God.


You are the one who brought us these scriptures that you do not understand.
The scripture where Jesus says I never knew you; those are about people who would not stop sinning. Are you not angry with me for saying I give up sins.

We have to repent before we are saved. You did not, just as the Pharisees did not.
We are to stop sinning. You however speak against such a thing.

Again, you did not answer a single one of my questions but only offered the same kind of commentary on those texts contained in your first response. hence, you simply repeated your commentary and avoided my questions ABOUT YOUR COMMENTARY!


Here are my questions to your response:

1. Tell me, what does not being a "extortioners, unjust, adulterers...I fast twice a week...give tithes" have anything to do with becoming a Jew or with ceremonial laws????

2. Tell me, what does confessing "Lord, Lord" and "in thy name" and "having done many wonderful works" have to do with becoming a Jew or ceremonial laws?

3. These are all "works" and many are obedience to the Ten commandments (adulterers) and thus "good" works and yet that did not save them, did not justify them and so how do you think they will save or justify you any more than them as they did them "in thy name" and confessing him as "Lord, Lord"?


Don't repeat the same commentary as it is your commentary that I am questioning and to repeat it is simply dodging the questions.

 

[Moriah]

Again, you did not answer a single one of my questions but only offered the same kind of commentary on those texts contained in your first response. hence, you simply repeated your commentary and avoided my questions ABOUT YOUR COMMENTARY!


Here are my questions to your response:

1. Tell me, what does not being a "extortioners, unjust, adulterers...I fast twice a week...give tithes" have anything to do with becoming a Jew or with ceremonial laws????

2. Tell me, what does confessing "Lord, Lord" and "in thy name" and "having done many wonderful works" have to do with becoming a Jew or ceremonial laws?

3. These are all "works" and many are obedience to the Ten commandments (adulterers) and thus "good" works and yet that did not save them, did not justify them and so how do you think they will save or justify you any more than them as they did them "in thy name" and confessing him as "Lord, Lord"?


Don't repeat the same commentary as it is your commentary that I am questioning and to repeat it is simply dodging the questions.

You are not speaking the truth.
I have answered your questions.
You think you do not have to face the truth by pretending you do not see it.
You are like the Pharisees. They did not repent to be saved, nor did you.

 

[The Biblicist]

You are not speaking the truth.
I have answered your questions.
You think you do not have to face the truth by pretending you do not see it.
You are like the Pharisees. They did not repent to be saved, nor did you.

Point to any post you have made that shows you have provided answers to these three questions! If you cannot do that (and you can't) then it is you that is lying and the LACK of evidence speaks for itself.

 

[Moriah]

Point to any post you have made that shows you have provided answers to these three questions! If you cannot do that (and you can't) then it is you that is lying and the LACK of evidence speaks for itself.

Go to post # 41.

You need to stop being as the Pharisees. Repent and make way for Jesus into your heart.

 

[The Biblicist]

Have a little honesty about yourself! You merely quoted TWO of my THREE questions but NEVER attempted to answer my question but merely repeated your commentary that was the very object of my question!

Let the readers judge who is lying here!


Here is my first question:

Originally Posted by The Biblicist
Tell me, what does not being a "extortioners, unjust, adulterers...I fast twice a week...give tithes" have anything to do with becoming a Jew or with ceremonial laws????

Here is your supposed answer:

The Pharisees would NOT repent. The Jews had the ceremonial law to make them clean before God..

Readers, I specifically asked Moriah what these things had to do with becoming a Jew as the three sins are all MORAL laws violated and fasting and tithing cannot possibly be regarded as "ceremonial" law!


Here is my second question:

2. Tell me, what does confessing "Lord, Lord" and "in thy name" and "having done many wonderful works" have to do with becoming a Jew or ceremonial laws?

Here is your response to my second question:

You are the one who brought us these scriptures that you do not understand. The scripture where Jesus says I never knew you; those are about people who would not stop sinning. Are you not angry with me for saying I give up sins.. - Moriah

You claimed that all these texts and you specified this text had nothing to do with anyone but Jews and the Jewish ceremonial laws! Claiming Jesus as "Lord, Lord" has only to do with Jews? Doing all "in thy name" has to do with the ceremonial law or becoming a Jew? What utter nonsense!

You did not answer my question but simply repeated your nonsensical commentary!


Here is my third question:

3. These are all "works" and many are obedience to the Ten commandments (adulterers) and thus "good" works and yet that did not save them, did not justify them and so how do you think they will save or justify you any more than them as they did them "in thy name" and confessing him as "Lord, Lord"?


Here is your response:

We have to repent before we are saved. You did not, just as the Pharisees did not.
We are to stop sinning. You however speak against such a thing. - Moriah


Readers, how does Moriah's response even remotely address that question?


So again, Please answer my questions instead of repeating your commentary to which my questions were addressed in the first place!

 

[Moriah]

Have a little honesty about yourself! You merely quoted TWO of my THREE questions but NEVER attempted to answer my question but merely repeated your commentary that was the very object of my question!

Let the readers judge who is lying here!


Here is my first question:

Originally Posted by The Biblicist
Tell me, what does not being a "extortioners, unjust, adulterers...I fast twice a week...give tithes" have anything to do with becoming a Jew or with ceremonial laws????

Here is your supposed answer:

The Pharisees would NOT repent. The Jews had the ceremonial law to make them clean before God..

Readers, I specifically asked Moriah what these things had to do with becoming a Jew as the three sins are all MORAL laws violated and fasting and tithing cannot possibly be regarded as "ceremonial" law!


Here is my second question:

2. Tell me, what does confessing "Lord, Lord" and "in thy name" and "having done many wonderful works" have to do with becoming a Jew or ceremonial laws?

Here is your response to my second question:

You are the one who brought us these scriptures that you do not understand. The scripture where Jesus says I never knew you; those are about people who would not stop sinning. Are you not angry with me for saying I give up sins.. - Moriah

You claimed that all these texts and you specified this text had nothing to do with anyone but Jews and the Jewish ceremonial laws! Claiming Jesus as "Lord, Lord" has only to do with Jews? Doing all "in thy name" has to do with the ceremonial law or becoming a Jew? What utter nonsense!

You did not answer my question but simply repeated your nonsensical commentary!


Here is my third question:

3. These are all "works" and many are obedience to the Ten commandments (adulterers) and thus "good" works and yet that did not save them, did not justify them and so how do you think they will save or justify you any more than them as they did them "in thy name" and confessing him as "Lord, Lord"?


Here is your response:

We have to repent before we are saved. You did not, just as the Pharisees did not.
We are to stop sinning. You however speak against such a thing. - Moriah


Readers, how does Moriah's response even remotely address that question?


So again, Please answer my questions instead of repeating your commentary to which my questions were addressed in the first place!

The Pharisees and all the Jews, they had the works of the law to make them clean before God.

THEY had part in their righteousness, when THEY did ceremonial washings, when THEY got an animal to sacrifice, when THEY gave offerings.

Do you understand that?

They did not rely on Jesus and his righteousness; they did not believe so that His blood can clean them. They would not accept his onetime sacrifice for all. They wanted to keep doing things themselves that the Old Testament commanded, things they had to do just to worship God.

It does not mean we are not to obey Jesus!

Jesus chooses those he saves.

Make your heart the kind of heart that God accepts, Acts 5:32.

Repent and prepare the way for Jesus into your heart.

The Pharisees would not repent, nor will you.

You teach others not to repent.

 

[The Biblicist]

The Pharisees and all the Jews, they had the works of the law to make them clean before God.

THEY had part in their righteousness, when THEY did ceremonial washings, when THEY got an animal to sacrifice, when THEY gave offerings.

Do you understand that?

Do you understand that you are simply repeating your initial commentary on those verses I cited? Repeating over and over again the very same thing!

I did not ask you to repeat your commentary. Repeating your commentary is merely avoiding my questions altogether!

Your commentary is rediculous! It is rediculous to say that such things as calling Jesus "Lord, Lord" has to do with becoming a Jew or with ceremonial washings and sacrifices! Rediculous!

It is rediculous to say that "in thy name.....have we not done many wonderful things" has to do with becoming a Jew or with ceremonial washings or sacrifices! Rediculous!

It is rediculous to say that denying to be "unjust" or being an "adulterer" or an "extortioner" has to do with becoming a Jew or with ceremonial washings or sacrifices! Rediculous!

All these things are GOOD WORKS that relate to the MORAL LAW of God and not merely things that apply to a Jew and they have absolutely nothing to do with sacrifices or the ceremonial law! That is just a plain lie!

Matthew 7:21-23 is set at Judgement day before the judgement seat and is not restricted to being a Jew or things that have to do with the ceremonial laws, sacrifices but with the claim of acknowleging Christ as Lord in addition to GOOD WORKS for entrance into heaven!

Your problem is that the scriptues deny that a person is saved by "works" but is justified "without works" and so you are forced to interpet all these passages not as "good works" but as Jewish ceremonialisms, sacricifes or becoming a Jew which is big fat lie of the Devil as they are no such thing but they are GOOD WORKS that have to with the MORAL LAW of God.

 

[The Biblicist]

Rom. 4:19 And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sara’s womb:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

Consider the nature of the promise given them by God. They will have a son.

Consider their former attempt to assist, participate with and contribute to obtaining that promise by the handmade and birth of Ishmael. That was considered disobedience to God rather than "faith" in God.

Consider that God intentionally waited until it was PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE for either Abraham or Sarah to assist, participate with or contribute to the birth of Isaac. He waited until they WERE NOT ABLE TO PERFORM but only when "HE WAS ABLE TO PERFORM" (v. 21).

Consider the descriptions of their PHYSICAL ABILITY as being "now dead" and the "deadness" of her womb.

Hence, this PHYSICAL BIRTH of Isaac, which was the promise of God, they could in no manner aide, assist, participate or contribute to by ANY KIND OF THEIR ACTIONS!

Thus being "strong in faith" in regard to obtaining this promise cannot possibly be interpreted to mean "faithfulness through ACTIONS OF OBEDIENCE"!

It can only be interpreted by CONFIDENCE that wholly RESTS in the power of God to completely provide the PROMISE of God FOR THEM without their assistance whatsoever! Or as Paul describes it:

Rom. 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.


Therefore justifying faith is not "WE ARE ABLE" but confidence that "HE WAS ABLE to perform"

Justifying "faith" cannot possibly be defined as "faithfulness to God's commandments" or "keeping the commandments of God" as Romans 4:18-21 utterly denies that interpretation of "faith" that justifies.

So "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved..." does not mean "keep His commandments and thou shalt be saved."

 

[Moriah]

Do you understand that you are simply repeating your initial commentary on those verses I cited? Repeating over and over again the very same thing!

I did not ask you to repeat your commentary. Repeating your commentary is merely avoiding my questions altogether!

Your commentary is rediculous! It is rediculous to say that such things as calling Jesus "Lord, Lord" has to do with becoming a Jew or with ceremonial washings and sacrifices! Rediculous!

It is rediculous to say that "in thy name.....have we not done many wonderful things" has to do with becoming a Jew or with ceremonial washings or sacrifices! Rediculous!

It is rediculous to say that denying to be "unjust" or being an "adulterer" or an "extortioner" has to do with becoming a Jew or with ceremonial washings or sacrifices! Rediculous!

No matter how many times I repeat it, you keep saying things that I do not say. Go back and reread what I said, then come back and apologize.

All these things are GOOD WORKS that relate to the MORAL LAW of God and not merely things that apply to a Jew and they have absolutely nothing to do with sacrifices or the ceremonial law! That is just a plain lie!

I have explained to you that the Jews had the works of the law to make them clean before God, they had external washings they had to do, just to worship God. They had to make all kinds of offerings.

In Jesus, we do not have to do those things anymore.

Matthew 7:21-23 is set at Judgement day before the judgement seat and is not restricted to being a Jew or things that have to do with the ceremonial laws, sacrifices but with the claim of acknowleging Christ as Lord in addition to GOOD WORKS for entrance into heaven!

You really need to go back and read what I wrote. Read it repeatedly if that is what it takes. You keep coming back with nonsense.

Your problem is that the scriptues deny that a person is saved by "works" but is justified "without works" and so you are forced to interpet all these passages not as "good works" but as Jewish ceremonialisms, sacricifes or becoming a Jew which is big fat lie of the Devil as they are no such thing but they are GOOD WORKS that have to with the MORAL LAW of God.

Go read Leviticus, there you will see all the things the Jews had to do just to worship God.

 

[The Biblicist]

No matter how many times I repeat it, you keep saying things that I do not say. Go back and reread what I said, then come back and apologize.




I have explained to you that the Jews had the works of the law to make them clean before God, they had external washings they had to do, just to worship God. They had to make all kinds of offerings.

In Jesus, we do not have to do those things anymore.


You really need to go back and read what I wrote. Read it repeatedly if that is what it takes. You keep coming back with nonsense.


Go read Leviticus, there you will see all the things the Jews had to do just to worship God.

I can only conclude one of four things. (1) I have not simplified my questions sufficiently for you to understand or (2) You are either too stupid to understand what I am saying no matter how simple I break it down or (3) you are intentionally being deceptive or (4) you are spiritually blinded by Satan and cannot see, understand or perceive spiritual things at all.

 

[Moriah]

I can only conclude one of four things. (1) I have not simplified my questions sufficiently for you to understand or (2) You are either too stupid to understand what I am saying no matter how simple I break it down or (3) you are intentionally being deceptive or (4) you are spiritually blinded by Satan and cannot see, understand or perceive spiritual things at all.

Biblicist,

I do not think you will ever understand until Jesus reveals himself to you.

Start with repenting.

 

[The Biblicist]

Biblicist,

I do not think you will ever understand until Jesus reveals himself to you.

Start with repenting.

you cannot understand a simple question and you are trying to tell me what to do?:laugh:

I think you understood my questions completely but are being coy and deceptive because if you answered my questions it would expose your interpretations of those texts to be absolute foolishness as well as the kind of salvation you embrace.

It is foolish to interpret those texts to be about becoming a Jew or with ceremonial ordinances, cleansings, etc. because EVERY ITEM LISTED belongs to the MORAL LAW not the to ceremonial laws, or how to become a Jew, etc. ("adulterer" "unjust" "Lord, Lord" "in thy name...have done many wonderful works" "extortioner" etc.).

Just because those in the texts are Jews does not make the criticism restricted to Judaism. In order to restrict it to Jews it would have to be about things that only Jews could violate. It is foolish to say that "adultery" and "unjust" and "extortion" and confessing Jesus as "Lord, Lord....in thy name...have we not done many wonderful works" are things that only characterize Judaism - foolish - as they are all MORAL characteristics that cannot be restricted to any race or any religion.

 

[Moriah]

you cannot understand a simple question and you are trying to tell me what to do?:laugh:

I think you understood my questions completely but are being coy and deceptive because if you answered my questions it would expose your interpretations of those texts to be absolute foolishness as well as the kind of salvation you embrace.

It is foolish to interpret those texts to be about becoming a Jew or with ceremonial ordinances, cleansings, etc. because EVERY ITEM LISTED belongs to the MORAL LAW not the to ceremonial laws, or how to become a Jew, etc. ("adulterer" "unjust" "Lord, Lord" "in thy name...have done many wonderful works" "extortioner" etc.).

Just because those in the texts are Jews does not make the criticism restricted to Judaism. In order to restrict it to Jews it would have to be about things that only Jews could violate. It is foolish to say that "adultery" and "unjust" and "extortion" and confessing Jesus as "Lord, Lord....in thy name...have we not done many wonderful works" are things that only characterize Judaism - foolish - as they are all MORAL characteristics that cannot be restricted to any race or any religion.

Reread what I wrote.

However, you will never understand though until you obey Jesus.

Try to explain to us how God can test people even after they say they believe.

I am waiting for you explanation, and I hope it is not too tortuously long.

 

[The Biblicist]

Reread what I wrote.

THAT is the problem! My questions were never about the scriptures I quoted but about the comments you made on those scriptures and yet you think you are answering my question by merely repeating the same comments over and over again! My questions challenge your comments and just repeating your comments does not answer my questions.

Asking me to reread your comments is like asking a painter asking a man who has spotted errors in a portrait to simply take another look at the portrait!!! Looking again at the portrait does not change the errors nor addiress the question about the errors! That is precisely how you are responding!

 

[The Biblicist]

Reread what I wrote.

.

you seriously need to reread what I wrote in the following two paragraphs:

It is foolish to interpret those texts to be about becoming a Jew or with ceremonial ordinances, cleansings, etc. because EVERY ITEM LISTED belongs to the MORAL LAW not the to ceremonial laws, or how to become a Jew, etc. ("adulterer" "unjust" "Lord, Lord" "in thy name...have done many wonderful works" "extortioner" etc.).

Just because those in the texts are Jews does not make the criticism restricted to Judaism. In order to restrict it to Jews it would have to be about things that only Jews could violate. It is foolish to say that "adultery" and "unjust" and "extortion" and confessing Jesus as "Lord, Lord....in thy name...have we not done many wonderful works" are things that only characterize Judaism - foolish - as they are all MORAL characteristics that cannot be restricted to any race or any religion.


Show me that you even comprehend what I said in the first paragraph above by paraphrasing it in your own words.

Show me that you understand what I said in the second paragraph above by paraphrasing it in your own words.

 

[Moriah]

Biblicist,

What does it mean to believe in Jesus?

Answer the question or concede.

 

[The Biblicist]

Biblicist,

What does it mean to believe in Jesus?

Answer the question or concede.

you are confusing the threads. Go to the other thread where you first asked this question and you will find I have answered TWICE already. The second time I broke my answer down in simple words just for you.

 

[Moriah]

you are confusing the threads. Go to the other thread where you first asked this question and you will find I have answered TWICE already. The second time I broke my answer down in simple words just for you.

It does not matter in which thread we discuss, for if you do not know these truths, then you have no business speaking about anything of God.

What does it mean to believe in Jesus?

Why does God test us after we say we believe, when YOU teach God saves us first and causes us to believe. What is God testing us for if He already saved us?!

 

[The Biblicist]

It does not matter in which thread we discuss, for if you do not know these truths, then you have no business speaking about anything of God.

What does it mean to believe in Jesus?

Why does God test us after we say we believe, when YOU teach God saves us first and causes us to believe. What is God testing us for if He already saved us?!

It is becoming quite clear to me that you are an imposter and simply trying to cause havoc.

You have repeatedly attacked DHK and myself. I think I know who you really are and I will ask that your IPS address be checked to see.