Did Jesus drink alcohol?

[mont974x4]

wouldn't that then mean that Jesus had the same curse in His flesh as Adam? For the reason Adam physically died of old age was sin, correct? Otherwise, Adam would have never died.

I don't think so. Other things die because of the curse without the curse (and sin) having a direct impact on them. I believe Him to be sinless. I also believe that He died, and He rose again. If He could die of one thing I see no reason to think He could not die of another. Trusting in God's sovereignty and seeing Christ's obedience in Scripture I do not see the physical state of Christ in the flesh as the issue, but rather what God had planned for the redemption of His chosen people. The point is not that He died, but that He conquered it by His resurrection. The hows, whys, and wheres deal with prophecy and are important in the grand scheme of things but are beyond the scope of this discussion. I submit that if God planned for Him to die in another time, place, and by another method it would have happened, and it would have been prophesied accordingly.

I suppose that it all depends on how you think about Christ being both fully man and fully God. I would also suggest that while we have no answer the question does lead us to better see the limits of a finite mind searching the depths of our infinite God.

 

[saturneptune]

What is really odd to me is that some of the very same Christians who make such a big deal about being baptized in EXACTLY the same manner as Jesus, turn around and use grape juice and crackers for the Lord's Supper.

What's up with that?

Why do you promote a practice than produces nothing but sorrow and human misery? What is up with that?

 

[Steadfast Fred]

No, Jesus did not drink wine. Jesus would not promote that which turns men into drunkards.

 

[Moriah]

No, Jesus did not drink wine. Jesus would not promote that which turns men into drunkards.

Would Jesus promote food, food that turns people obese? People are responsible for what they do with their food and drink!

 

[steaver]

I don't think so. Other things die because of the curse without the curse (and sin) having a direct impact on them. .

I believe you are incorrect on this Mont. All death is due to God's curse upon mankind and the whole earth.

If He could die of one thing I see no reason to think He could not die of another.

The reasons are given in the scriptures. Jesus could not die until He gave Himself to be killed. Many scriptures tell of His escape from people because it was not yet His time. There is nothing at all that could have killed Jesus without His cooperation, not an accident, not another person, because He was in complete control of His life and death. Neither could old age cause Him to die for He was not part of the curse given through Adam's disobedience.

I submit that if God planned for Him to die in another time, place, and by another method it would have happened, and it would have been prophesied accordingly

Of course, but the point is Jesus was not part of the curse and thus He could not have died apart from being murdered. He could have even departed from this earth not seeing death at all, but of course the reason for Him coming was to lay down His life in full obedience to the Father and His own Word.

 

[mont974x4]

All death is due to sin. Yes. Not all things that die as a result of the fall are prone to sin. That was my point.

Yes, He escaped many times. It does not mean that He was physically incapable of dying. It means He was intent on the Father's timeline. That's His obedience being illustrated, not His inability to die.


I'll leave you to your speculation. I do not think its fruitful, or edifying, to get to wrapped up on an issue God does not provide an answer to.

 

[steaver]

All death is due to sin. Yes. Not all things that die as a result of the fall are prone to sin. That was my point.

Yes, He escaped many times. It does not mean that He was physically incapable of dying. It means He was intent on the Father's timeline. That's His obedience being illustrated, not His inability to die.


I'll leave you to your speculation. I do not think its fruitful, or edifying, to get to wrapped up on an issue God does not provide an answer to.

You kinda are contradicting yourself Mont. If all death is due to sin, and it is, then if Jesus could have died of old age like all other people do, He would have died from the curse of sin in His flesh as handed down from Adam.

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" (Ro 5:12)

Would you include Jesus in this condemnation of death upon all men? Of course not. The curse is passed on through the male's seed. This is why the necessity of a virgin birth. Jesus must be born of a virgin with no male seed from Adam involved. Jesus had no curse and no sin nature passed into Him. And Jesus being the only beggotten Son of God could not sin, for He was and is God.

 

[Wittenberger]

No, Jesus did not drink wine. Jesus would not promote that which turns men into drunkards.

Did you read all the comments on this thread???

The idea that a first century Jew would be a tee-totaling grape juice drinker, and would serve grape juice to his Jewish guests at a Jewish Passover seder (the Last Supper) is so improbable, it is downright ridiculous!

Do you think people in Christ's day went out to the countryside, trampled grapes, and rushed the grape juice into the cities by pony express before it fermented??

There was no refrigeration!!! It is very hot in the middle east. Keeping grape juice from quickly fermenting would have been very, very difficult.

The scribes and Pharisees accused Jesus of being a drunkard. Why would they bother doing that if everyone in Judea, Samaria and Galilee knew that Jesus was a tee-totaling grape juice drinker??

So the wine mentioned in the OT that got Noah so drunk he exposed himself and the wine that caused Lot to have sex with his two daughters obviously was alcohol, (unless you believe one can get drunk on grape juice!) but when wine is mentioned in the NT it suddenly becomes grape juice??

This belief is based on sheer ignorance and a desperate attempt to cling to false doctrine when it is clearly wrong!

I'm not encouraging Baptists to drink, but don't judge others that do (in moderation), because JESUS DRANK ALCOHOL!

 

[Fred's Wife]

If it takes 10 drinks to get you drunk then after one drink you are 1/10 drunk. Do the math if you are sober enough...

 

[saturneptune]

Did you read all the comments on this thread???

The idea that a first century Jew would be a tee-totaling grape juice drinker, and would serve grape juice to his Jewish guests at a Jewish Passover seder (the Last Supper) is so improbable, it is downright ridiculous!

Do you think people in Christ's day went out to the countryside, trampled grapes, and rushed the grape juice into the cities by pony express before it fermented??

There was no refrigeration!!! It is very hot in the middle east. Keeping grape juice from quickly fermenting would have been very, very difficult.

The scribes and Pharisees accused Jesus of being a drunkard. Why would they bother doing that if everyone in Judea, Samaria and Galilee knew that Jesus was a tee-totaling grape juice drinker??

So the wine mentioned in the OT that got Noah so drunk he exposed himself and the wine that caused Lot to have sex with his two daughters obviously was alcohol, (unless you believe one can get drunk on grape juice!) but when wine is mentioned in the NT it suddenly becomes grape juice??

This belief is based on sheer ignorance and a desperate attempt to cling to false doctrine when it is clearly wrong!

I'm not encouraging Baptists to drink, but don't judge others that do (in moderation), because JESUS DRANK ALCOHOL!

I do not know why Lutherans bothered to seperate from the RCC. The whole tone of their theology sounds just as ridiculous as the RCC. Infant baptism, saying hocus pocus creeds and chants, relying on a hierarcy, elder rule, closed communion, more than two sacraments, etc, etc, etc.

You miss the whole point of alcohol. You are trying to frame the debate on a technical issue of finding a definitive statement in the Bible. That probably cannot be done. However, you ignore issues like influencing the weaker brother and your witness. Also, the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Sometimes one must use common sense. What percent of people who drink, drink in "moderation." Probably less than 5%, and that is generous. What is the end result of drinking alcohol? Job loss, breakup of families, extra expenses, children suffering, your death or someone else's.

You need to get with your RCC buddies, get a bottle of wine, drink in moderation, and put the rest in the magic transsubstantiation box, and see if it changed to grape juice.

 

[Moriah]

Anyone who reads the Bible, that Jesus turned water into wine, and that Jesus came eating and drinking, yet you still insist wine was not wine---those people put their own wisdom before God, which you end up blaspheming over. Just listen to what some here say, judging Jesus, for Jesus did turn water into wine!

 

[Wittenberger]

I do not know why Lutherans bothered to seperate from the RCC. The whole tone of their theology sounds just as ridiculous as the RCC. Infant baptism, saying hocus pocus creeds and chants, relying on a hierarcy, elder rule, closed communion, more than two sacraments, etc, etc, etc.

You miss the whole point of alcohol. You are trying to frame the debate on a technical issue of finding a definitive statement in the Bible. That probably cannot be done. However, you ignore issues like influencing the weaker brother and your witness. Also, the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit. Sometimes one must use common sense. What percent of people who drink, drink in "moderation." Probably less than 5%, and that is generous. What is the end result of drinking alcohol? Job loss, breakup of families, extra expenses, children suffering, your death or someone else's.

You need to get with your RCC buddies, get a bottle of wine, drink in moderation, and put the rest in the magic transsubstantiation box, and see if it changed to grape juice.

You are absolutely right about alcohol. I would never encourage someone to start drinking.

Alcohol causes alot of suffering in this country. Drunk driving/domestic abuse/violence/homelessness.

If you don't drink alcohol, you are probably better off.

So if Baptists or anyone else wants to preach abstinence for health and safety issues, I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is when pious tee-totaling Christians condemn and judge other Christians/denominations for drinking alcohol because it is a "sin".

Drinking alcohol is not a sin. Jesus drank alcohol. God cannot sin.

Drinking alcohol in excess is the sin. That is my point.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

You are absolutely right about alcohol. I would never encourage someone to start drinking.

Alcohol causes alot of suffering in this country. Drunk driving/domestic abuse/violence/homelessness.

If you don't drink alcohol, you are probably better off.

So if Baptists or anyone else wants to preach abstinence for health and safety issues, I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is when pious tee-totaling Christians condemn and judge other Christians/denominations for drinking alcohol because it is a "sin".

Drinking alcohol is not a sin. Jesus drank alcohol. God cannot sin.

Drinking alcohol in excess is the sin. That is my point.

I enjoy a beer (I'm a bit of a beer snob and only drink craft or European beer!) occasionally. Wine is good for the heart. But getting lit is wrong!

 

[reformed_baptist]

These denominations also believe that Jesus served grape juice at the Lord's Supper.

Tell me my freind, as one who claims to take the bible literally where we are told that wine was served at the alst supper in the bible?

 

[Wittenberger]

Tell me my freind, as one who claims to take the bible literally where we are told that wine was served at the alst supper in the bible?

You are correct, brother, that in the Gospel accounts of the Last Supper only the word "cup" and "fruit of the vine" is used. I would have to check Paul's epistles to be sure, but I think he uses "the cup" also. So just from Scriptural accounts you cannot prove that Jesus used wine or that he used grape juice in the Lord's supper.

However, from all the other evidence I presented above, the idea that Jesus was a tee-totaling grape juice drinker is absurd. The idea that a Jew would serve grape juice to his Jewish guests at a Jewish Passover seder is ridiculous.

The Bible does not specifically state that churches MUST use wine for the Lord's Supper.

The point of this thread is to point out that Jesus did drink alcohol and that no one should judge others if they drink in moderation.

If you and your denomination want to use only grape juice for the Lord's Supper, that is fine by me.