Whose Son is YHVH, the Christ?

[Seve]

Dear Readers,

There's no question or argument with regards to the plurality of God... collective one (echad) that is. The fact of the matter is, the poster above could not even respond directly to most of my posts but have the audacity to claim victory to his flawed religious view. Here's some of the posts that he continue to ignore.... and could not refute.... Others to follow.

So the bottom-line..... the apologizers here believe that God is one in Number. It’s a belief that even the Jews, Oneness people and the Unitarians could relate to. Whereas, I believe God is one in Unity. The Elohim (The plural of Eloah, God), who is one (Echad) in Unity.

Deuteronomy 6:4 attests to this fact: “Hear, O Israel: The LORD (YHVH or Jehovah) our God (Elohim, plural referring to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, who were all individually called God), is ONE (united) LORD.

For example...

ONE IN UNITY is used in the case of Gen. 2:24, when the husband and wife were called ONE by God. How can the two in number, be One?

This is possible only in the sense of UNITY. We can understand John 10:30 in this sense, “I and my Father are one.” One in Unity not in number. It is also in this sense that the thousands can be one like the builders of the tower of Babel in Gen 11:6. Even the millions of Christians can be one in this sense according to John 17:21.

The use of “ECHAD” of Genesis 2:24 best explains the “ECHAD” of Deuteronomy 6:4. Therefore, when Moses said that the husband and wife (TWO BEINGS) would become “ECHAD” (one), that is a “collective one” of two beings.” If that is “collective one” of TWO BEINGS, why would you assume that Moses’ usage of “ECHAD” in Deut. 6:4 is a “collective one” of ONE BEING?

When Moses applied “collective one” to God in Deut. 6:4 it was applied to MORE THAN ONE ENTITY. Otherwise, it was an erroneous usage for Moses since “collective one” can only be applied to more than one entity.

I don’t have any problem with the three Persons and in ONE God (Collective ONE, that is). But the issue is this:

Did the Bible say that the BEING of the Son is the SAME BEING of the Father and of the Holy Spirit since the traditional view says God exist as three distinct persons but not separate persons?

I don't think so.

How do you understand “collective one”? No doubt about it, Moses was correct in his usage of ECHAD by applying it to TWO BEINGS becoming one. But our poster above is introducing a new usage of the term "echad" by applying it to only ONE BEING.

“Collective one” is not applied to the distinctions WITHIN one entity. You may draw ONE circle with three distinct colors WITHIN but that can hardly be called “collective one” because the entity (ie., circle) remains one. You can only apply “collective one” to two or more separate and distinct entities.

:BangHead:

 

[Thinkingstuff]

No, you did not explain anything with regards to the real issue that was brought forth to you. In fact, you continue to ignore it. Now, let us look at the text again….

Revelation 3
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

No Seve, I have dealt with that exact verse. You pull that verse out of its natural context, and let us take it step by step in the context of that passage. The passage starts out as a discourse to the Church of Philadelphia (in Turkey by the way not Pennsylvania just in case you get the wrong referrence)

And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write:

Then the writer shows who is addressing that church

The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, who shuts and no one opens.

By use of the term "key of David" is a referrence to the Kingdom of God foretold by Daniel and the Kingdom Promised to be built upon the Heir of David. Then the passage goes on to say about the relationship between the Church of Philadelphia (Turkey not Pennsylvania) and the promised Kingdom of God

I know your works. Behold, I have set before you an open door, which no one is able to shut. I know that you have but little power, and yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name

That the person who knows what is going on in Philedelphia (Turkey not Pennsylvania) and who closes and shuts to door to the Kingdom of God a referrence to the ability to exclude or include people into that Kingdom knows that they have not only Kept that Persons word (that person who is addressing the church there is Jesus) but haven't denied his name. Next he encourages this church that the Jews don't determine who is part of the promised Davidic Kingdom or the Kingdom of God because though they are biologically Jews they aren't really Jews in heart

Behold, I will make those of the synagogue of Satan who say that they are Jews and are not, but lie—behold, I will make them come and bow down before your feet, and they will learn that I have loved you.

And then he goes on to say that he himself (Jesus) will keep them faithful through coming persecution because they have kept his word

Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth

He further encourages them by saying he is coming soon so they should remain faithful to him

am coming soon. Hold fast what you have, so that no one may seize your crown

Then he says not only am I coming soon but those who remain steadfast and do not give up on him in their persecution he will make an irrevocable member of his kingdom and will use them to establish his true temple or church

The one who conquers, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God. Never shall he go out of it,

Then to ensure them of this irrevocability he will write the name of God on him so that it shows to whom those people belong, namely God

and I will write on him the name of my God

and that he will write the name of where they belong

and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down from my God out of heaven,

and his own personal new name

and my own new name

note he doesn't say I will reveal a hidden name but provide his personal new name which as I've said in context with the rest of the bible God obtains for himself new names as he reveals himself. So when Jesus provides marks his faithful people form the Church of Philadelphia making them irrevocable members of his Kingdom and pillars of his Temple he will be provided a new title/name as they experientially come to understand him in that role. So, Seve I have dealt with your verse and shown you how you have misinterpret it to believe there are two Gods becoming one and that the Holy Spirit is some sort of force like on star wars.

Now, answer the following simple questions…..

All of your questions were answered in the above post. However, I will answer your questons below and provide scripture for my answer.

Who's the Speaker of the above cited text ref. Rev. 3:12?

I've answered this in the above statments. However, it is clear Jesus is addressing the church in Philadelphia (Turkey not Pennsylvania).

Who's the Speaker referring to... as his God, if thou can tell?

One of the things I dispise are people who think combining modern english and Elizabethan English makes them pious. It doesn't just makes them look silly. Like when Pentecostals when they supposedly "interpret speaking in tongues" will begin with "Thus saith the Lord" then quote psalms. Its just sillyness. Why can't you just say "Who's the speaker referring to...as his God, if YOU can tell?" replacing "you" with "thou" doesn't give you any more credibility and I find it irritating. Its like being condicended to. However, to answer your question Jesus is refering to the Father of whom he said

Jews gathered around him and said to him, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.”... Jesus answered them... I and the Father are one - john 10: 27,29, 30

The Greek rendering of are is ἐσμέν which directly translated means "we are". Thus the passage literally reads "I and the Father we are one". If Jesus had meant that they had become one he would have used the Greek word ὁμοιόω
. So compare with what Isaiah 45:5 says

“I am the Lord, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God.

God could not say if he had joined with other gods that "besides me there is no God.

If the Speaker has another God, how many God are they?

It is clear that the Father to whom the speaker refers is not another god but the singular god whom Jesus is one with. Did you not read the scriptures where it says

41 Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question, 42 saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “The son of David.” 43 He said to them, “How is it then that David, in the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying,

44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at my right hand,
until I put your enemies under your feet”’?

45 If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?” - Matt 22:41-45

The pharisees could not understand how a decendent of David could be the God who created David and Jesus shows that David under inspiration of the Holy Spirit attest to his decendent being his lord. And in thse similar fashion you have the difficulty believing in the Trinity and have made for yourself multiple gods becoming one But just as unlikely as David's decendent being David's God it seems unlikely that Jesus and the father are one not become one however this is exactly what Jesus attest to. There has only ever been one God as scriptures have shown and that God is a trinity and though it may be inexplicable to you scriptures attest to that fact.

I will ask you again to try to refute the above assertion I made on John 17:5 if you can.... If can not, please let me know

again I dont refute scriptures I refute your interpretation of them. Lets look at that passage in context with the scripture.

When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, 2 since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. 4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

Several things I want you to note in this passage

“Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you,

Jesus speaking to the Father, whom he is one with by the way not seperate from him - john 10, expressing that the time for Jesus sacrifice is come however by that sacrifice God will be glorified as both the son and the father. Next note

they know you the only true God

Note what Jesus says "only true God" according to you that would make Jesus not God at all because it is clear there is only one true God and since Jesus is communicating with God he is seperate from God. Ah.. but you are faulted because Jesus makes it clear he is connected to God and one with God and isn't become one with God as I've shown you from John 10. So Jesus is communicating with the "one true" God whom he is one with ie the person of that trinity the Father. Finally he says

and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

by saying and Jesus Christ whom God has sent isn't seperating Christ from the trinity but expressing his particular role as messiah Jesus is incarnate! And this incarnation joins God to humanity that humanity might be saved (for those who believe) by Jesus sacrifice on the Cross in that Jesus died for all of us. Still this does not indicate a seperation of God the Father from Jesus Christ but rather the role of the 2nd person of the trinity as savior but it is the same God who saves us not another god. Thus we don't have multiple gods becoming one. He have one God who has three persons.

 

[The Biblicist]

Dear Readers,

There's no question or argument with regards to the plurality of God... collective one (echad) that is. The fact of the matter is, the poster above could not even respond directly to most of my posts but have the audacity to claim victory to his flawed religious view. Here's some of the posts that he continue to ignore.... and could not refute.... Others to follow.



How do you understand “collective one”? No doubt about it, Moses was correct in his usage of ECHAD by applying it to TWO BEINGS becoming one. But our poster above is introducing a new usage of the term "echad" by applying it to only ONE BEING.

“Collective one” is not applied to the distinctions WITHIN one entity. You may draw ONE circle with three distinct colors WITHIN but that can hardly be called “collective one” because the entity (ie., circle) remains one. You can only apply “collective one” to two or more separate and distinct entities.

:BangHead:

Mal 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother, by profaning the covenant of our fathers?

The same Hebrew term "ECHAD" and it does not mean ONE COLLECTIVELY here as they had but ONE father IN NUMBER and therefore ONE God in number.

"I and the Father are ONE" - Jn. 10:30

The term for "one" is neuter not masculine. numerically One IN NATURE - the same divine essence.

 

[Yeshua1]

Isahiah 43:10 Ye [are] my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I [am] he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Isaiah 44:6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I [am] the first, and I [am] the last; and beside me [there is] no God.

Isaiah 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared [it]? ye [are] even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, [there is] no God; I know not [any].

Dear Readers,

Jesus is YHVH himself -- the Son of the invisible God. He is the Physical Image of the invisible Almighty God Father, the Spirit of Love…. which NO man hath seen at anytime nor his name have been revealed to anyone at this time.

Of course, contrary to Biblicist flawed understanding of the Scripture….. YHVH of old, the Son of God, is correct to claim that there’s no other God besides him… as shown above cited Scriptures - simply because, technically.... the Son is our God.… from the beginning; from everlasting.... as also documented and revealed in the New Testament below….

Insertions are mine for presentation:

1Corinthians 11
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ (the Son of God); and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God (his own Father).

The invisible God is fully manifested in His only Begotten Son -- the FIRST BORN of every creature. Therefore, in reality, the Son is our God, our own Father, as far as we are concerned -- THY MAKER -- the head of every man.

Jesus Name in the OT is listed in Gen 2:4 (Heb-Adonai YHWH). He is called LORD God by the King James translators. He is the God of the Jews, and the ONLY God ever FORMED, Physically. If you have seen Him….. you have seen the Father.

When God spoke the "WORD" in the beginning and said, LET THERE BE LIGHT, YHVH, the Son, came forth from the invisible Spirit of Love into this Physical World and became the Only God ever Physically formed or that ever will be Physically formed for us to see.

He was Not Created, since He was already God himself (John 1:1). The Son was the source of the True Light (physical) in the beginning, ref. Gen. 1:3 (ALPHA), just as He will be the literal Light of Heaven in the end (OMEGA), which has No need for the Sun nor Moon to shine in it.

Without the Son (YHVH), was Not anything made that was made, because Everything Physical was made by the Physical Hands of the Only God, the Only Image, the Only Begotten, of the Spirit of the invisible Almighty God Father.

When we get to Heaven, we will truly understand that the Son is YHVH himself, our God, for In Him dwelleth ALL of the fullness of the Godhead, Bodily (physically).

:godisgood:

Are you saying there are TWO seperate Gods, one greater/ than the other One?

or that jesus is tha father/Son/Spirit himself?

or that God was the father, than was the Son, now is the Spirit?

 

[Seve]

Dear Readers,

No man has seen God the Invisible Spirit of Love, at anytime…. but Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who were with the LORD God in the fiery furnace (ref. Book of Daniel), will tell you they saw our Lord YHVH, the Son of God…. for He is the Only Begotten Image of the Invisible Spirit of God. His Image is that of a man Glorified, whose Glory is Brighter than the Noonday Sun.

In Fact even king Nebuchadnezzar was also astonished and confused himself… seeing what he belief to be the sudden appearance of the Son of God in the burning furnace and saving the three men without hurt….

Read and learn….

Daniel 3:23
And these three men, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, fell down bound into the midst of the burning fiery furnace. v24 Then Nebuchadnezzar the king was astonied, and rose up in haste, [and] spake, and said unto his counsellors, Did not we cast three men bound into the midst of the fire? They answered and said unto the king, True, O king. v25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Now, the question that all of you have to ponder is ….. How king Nebuchadnezzar could have known the appearance or look-a-like of the Son of God in the Old Testament… IF ALL of you believe that the Son of God ONLY existed and had physical body during New Testament upon incarnation???

:godisgood:

 

[The Biblicist]

Dear Readers,

No man has seen God the Invisible Spirit of Love, at anytime…. but Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who were with the LORD God in the fiery furnace (ref. Book of Daniel), will tell you they saw our Lord YHVH, the Son of God…. for He is the Only Begotten Image of the Invisible Spirit of God. His Image is that of a man Glorified, whose Glory is Brighter than the Noonday Sun.

You are building a straw man and then burning it. No one is denying that the Second Person of the "Godhead" has manifested himself in various forms in the Old Testament prior to the incarnation. However, the name "YHVH" is clearly the name for all THREE Persons of the "Godhead" and not just the Father. Isaiah 44:6 proves that is given to TWO different Person's in the Godhead. Isaiah 44:6 correctly provides the true meaning of Isaiah 43:10 as merely a denial there is no other God but YHVH period!

 

[Seve]

Based on my Biblical understanding..... God is one (echad) in unity.... NOT... in number.

in fact, the Father and the Son are both separate entities, therefore, both are collective ONE God (Echad) in unity.

John17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with THINE OWN SELF with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Based on the Scripture above.... accordingly....

....The Father has his ownself Being....

.... the Son has his ownself Being as well...... even before the world was.... even before he was sent into this world and became flesh.

My Conclusion: YHVH is not the Father but the Christ himself, the Son of God - the only God formed for us to see and witness... the great I AM of old.

Dear Readers,

Please be aware that our apologists here would NOT be able to use Scripture effectively to support their flawed religious views against me .... guaranteed.... I promise..... They can only based their wild imagination on their own traditional religious view or private interpretation... which is not supported by the Scripture.

Obviously, our apologizers are not dealing with the issues head on... or directly. How many times will they avoid and divert your attention from the real issue is beyond me.... By doing so....they must be under estemating the audience' reading comprehesion, are they not? .... Oh well...... Rest assure that I will not do that to you!

In fact below are few more Scriptures to prove that the Son -- who already physically existed in the OT -- ONLY became the God of the whole earth, after his resurrection.... thou Lord in the beginning.... even though, the Son, was only serving as God to the Jews in the beginning and not to the gentiles.

Isaiah 54:5 For thy Maker [is] thine husband; the LORD of hosts [is] his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom. v9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God , hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows. v10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: v11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;


:godisgood:

 

[The Biblicist]

Dear Readers,

Please be aware that our apologists here would NOT be able to use Scripture effectively to support their flawed religious views against me .... guaranteed.... I promise..... They can only based their wild imagination on their own traditional religious view or private interpretation... which is not supported by the Scripture.

Obviously, our apologizers are not dealing with the issues head on... or directly. How many times will they avoid and divert your attention from the real issue is beyond me.... By doing so....they must be under estemating the audience' reading comprehesion, are they not? .... Oh well...... Rest assure that I will not do that to you!:

It is you that has not dealt with the scriptures I have provided "head on"! You have ignored Isaiah 43:6,8 in its direct relationship with Isa. 43:10. You have ignored scriptures that prove your view of "one" is not correct. You have ignored nearly all our arguments. You have simply built straw man arguments and attributed wrongly to us and then hypocritically burnt them.

 

[Seve]

Hello Seve,

I would like to discuss this more with you. I have been thinking of these things and am glad to study them with you.?

Hello Moriah,

My humbe apology for missing these previous queries by you. I will be more than to study the word of God with you so long as we respect each other position even when we disagree. Of course, I don't see much problem with that.... Having said that, the honor is mine.

Since Jesus is and was the visible image of God, even before the creation of the world and Jesus is God’s Word, literally God’s Word, tell me what you think then about God’s voice being heard when Jesus was baptized, and again when Jesus transfigured and God spoke from the cloud.

The invisible God must have made His voice (words) heard now without Jesus the Word. Is that biblical to you?

Of course. As I have posted before, the Son was first brought forth (begotten) into our physical world from the invisible real of the Father when God spoke the “WORD” in the in the beginning and said… “LET THERE BE LIGHT”…. Genesis 1:3 was the first complete word spoken by God as documented in the Scripture. He (YHVH) was later sent into our world AGAIN and made flesh... to save us from our sins... and became known as Jesus Christ.


. The Father is God (in heaven)
+ Jesus is God (on Jordan River)
+ The HS is God (descending on Jesus)

Obviously, it shows that they are separate Divine Entities from each other. The Father is in Heaven speaking, the Son was coming up out of the Jordan River. And John said that he saw the Holy Spirit come down from heaven and remain on Jesus.

Besides, if they are not separate entities, how can the Son say to the Father, "Why have you forsaken me?" Again, only those who play blind will downplay the fact that Jesus and the Father are separate Divine Beings.

In addition, what do you think about Stephen seeing the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God? Do you think Stephen saw the invisible God?

Ok, let's look at the actual Scripture

Acts 7:55 But he (Stephen), being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, v56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

I will say it again....I believe.... No man alive ... even today.... hath seen God at anytime with his own eyes.

Stephen was having a prophetic vision (like a dream) being filled with Holy Ghost… when he asserted that he saw the heavens opened and the Son standing on the right hand of God….

However, the fact of the matter that is very clear … The New Testament is very consistent in telling us that the Father and Son are two separate Divine Beings.... united as one God (Elohim) collectively..... as I have cited in most of my posts using the Scriptural Texts as needed.

God Bless. :godisgood:

 

[Moriah]

Hello Moriah,

My humbe apology for missing these previous queries by you. I will be more than to study the word of God with you so long as we respect each other position even when we disagree. Of course, I don't see much problem with that.... Having said that, the honor is mine.



Of course. As I have posted before, the Son was first brought forth (begotten) into our physical world from the invisible real of the Father when God spoke the “WORD” in the in the beginning and said… “LET THERE BE LIGHT”…. Genesis 1:3 was the first complete word spoken by God as documented in the Scripture. He (YHVH) was later sent into our world AGAIN and made flesh... to save us from our sins... and became known as Jesus Christ.


. The Father is God (in heaven)
+ Jesus is God (on Jordan River)
+ The HS is God (descending on Jesus)

Obviously, it shows that they are separate Divine Entities from each other. The Father is in Heaven speaking, the Son was coming up out of the Jordan River. And John said that he saw the Holy Spirit come down from heaven and remain on Jesus.

Besides, if they are not separate entities, how can the Son say to the Father, "Why have you forsaken me?" Again, only those who play blind will downplay the fact that Jesus and the Father are separate Divine Beings.

In addition, what do you think about Stephen seeing the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God? Do you think Stephen saw the invisible God?

Ok, let's look at the actual Scripture

Acts 7:55 But he (Stephen), being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, v56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

I will say it again....I believe.... No man alive ... even today.... hath seen God at anytime with his own eyes.

Stephen was having a prophetic vision (like a dream) being filled with Holy Ghost… when he asserted that he saw the heavens opened and the Son standing on the right hand of God….

However, the fact of the matter that is very clear … The New Testament is very consistent in telling us that the Father and Son are two separate Divine Beings.... as I have cited in most of my posts using the Scriptural Texts as needed.

God Bless. :godisgood:

Thank you for discussing this with me. I believe our beliefs on this is the same; however, I want to confirm that my belief is that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are the same.
How about you, do you say that too?
It might be an obvious answer, but I try not to ever assume anything.

 

[Yeshua1]

Hello Moriah,

My humbe apology for missing these previous queries by you. I will be more than to study the word of God with you so long as we respect each other position even when we disagree. Of course, I don't see much problem with that.... Having said that, the honor is mine.



Of course. As I have posted before, the Son was first brought forth (begotten) into our physical world from the invisible real of the Father when God spoke the “WORD” in the in the beginning and said… “LET THERE BE LIGHT”…. Genesis 1:3 was the first complete word spoken by God as documented in the Scripture. He (YHVH) was later sent into our world AGAIN and made flesh... to save us from our sins... and became known as Jesus Christ.


. The Father is God (in heaven)
+ Jesus is God (on Jordan River)
+ The HS is God (descending on Jesus)

Obviously, it shows that they are separate Divine Entities from each other. The Father is in Heaven speaking, the Son was coming up out of the Jordan River. And John said that he saw the Holy Spirit come down from heaven and remain on Jesus.

Besides, if they are not separate entities, how can the Son say to the Father, "Why have you forsaken me?" Again, only those who play blind will downplay the fact that Jesus and the Father are separate Divine Beings.



Ok, let's look at the actual Scripture

Acts 7:55 But he (Stephen), being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, v56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

I will say it again....I believe.... No man alive ... even today.... hath seen God at anytime with his own eyes.

Stephen was having a prophetic vision (like a dream) being filled with Holy Ghost… when he asserted that he saw the heavens opened and the Son standing on the right hand of God….

However, the fact of the matter that is very clear … The New Testament is very consistent in telling us that the Father and Son are two separate Divine Beings.... united as one God (Elohim) collectively..... as I have cited in most of my posts using the Scriptural Texts as needed.

God Bless. :godisgood:

Do you hold to there being ONE god, within Him are 3 seperate persons, Father/Son/Spirit, ALL 3 equally God?

NEVER a time when they were not all 3 God, not that they are seperate gods?

 

[The Biblicist]

. The Father is God (in heaven)
+ Jesus is God (on Jordan River)
+ The HS is God (descending on Jesus)

Obviously, it shows that they are separate Divine Entities from each other..... However, the fact of the matter that is very clear … The New Testament is very consistent in telling us that the Father and Son are two separate Divine Beings.... united as one God (Elohim) collectively..... as I have cited in most of my posts using the Scriptural Texts as needed.
:

If I understand you correctly you are teaching Tritheism and deny Trinitarianism. That is, you believe that each is a distinct and separate entity, being, Person from the other but collectively they are "God"!

Is that correct?

 

[Yeshua1]

If I understand you correctly you are teaching Tritheism and deny Trinitarianism. That is, you believe that each is a distinct and separate entity, being, Person from the other but collectively they are "God"!

Is that correct?

didn't he post though jesus "became' God after the resurrection?

was he adopted into Godhood?

 

[Seve]

Thank you for discussing this with me. I believe our beliefs on this is the same; however, I want to confirm that my belief is that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit are the same.
How about you, do you say that too?
It might be an obvious answer, but I try not to ever assume anything.

Hello Moriah,

I believe in one (echad) God.... compounded one that is.

While the Son and the Holy Spirit both proceed from the Almighty God, they all became distinct and separate Divine Entities from each other… upon being brought forth into this physical world from the invisible realm of the Father. However, they are all united (compound unity) as one God (Elohim-Plural).

Here's one of the Biblical basis of my belief.... Insertions are mine for presentation.

1 John 5:7
For there are three (numeric) that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three (numeric) are one (collectively)

:godisgood:

 

[Yeshua1]

Hello Moriah,

I believe in one (echad) God.... compounded one that is.

While the Son and the Holy Spirit both proceed from the Almighty God, they all became distinct and separate Divine Entities from each other… upon being brought forth into this physical world from the invisible realm of the Father. However, they are all united (compound unity) as one God (Elohim-Plural).

Here's one of the Biblical basis of my belief.... Insertions are mine for presentation.

1 John 5:7
For there are three (numeric) that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three (numeric) are one (collectively)

:godisgood:

probably NOR even in the actual words penned down by John though!

is the father a "greater God" than either Son/Spirit?

was jesus ALWAYS God?

 

[Seve]

probably NOR even in the actual words penned down by John though!

is the father a "greater God" than either Son/Spirit?

was jesus ALWAYS God?

Based on the Scripture..... The invisible Almighty God Father is "greater" than Son and the Holy Spirit.... of whom both proceeded from him.... And I agree.

John 14
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

The Son was only serving as God to the Jews in the beginning.... not to all mankind living on the entire earth.

:godisgood:

 

[The Biblicist]

The Son was only serving as God to the Jews in the beginning.... not to all mankind living on the entire earth.
:

So you are denying The Second Person in the "Godhead" is co-eternal with the Father and co-equal with the Father in regard to all attributes that make God to be God?? You are asserting that only the Father is the eternal God and both the Son and Holy Spirit are inferior in regard to any ETERNAL attributes that makes God to be God.

 

[Seve]

So you are denying The Second Person in the "Godhead" is co-eternal with the Father and co-equal with the Father in regard to all attributes that make God to be God?? You are asserting that only the Father is the eternal God and both the Son and Holy Spirit are inferior in regard to any ETERNAL attributes that makes God to be God.

There's no such thing as 3 persons in 1 Being. That's heresy. And you are the one denying the Scrpiture... that you maliciously EDITED in order to suit yout distorted premises.....

Jesus said..... that his Father is greater than him..... Look an read again....

Based on the Scripture..... The invisible Almighty God Father is "greater" than Son and the Holy Spirit.... of whom both proceeded from him.... And I agree.

John 14
28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come [again] unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

The Son was only serving as God to the Jews in the beginning.... not to all mankind living on the entire earth.

:godisgood:

The fact is, just like your forefathers, Gentiles do not have God in this world in the beginning....

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

raying:

 

[Yeshua1]

There's no such thing as 3 persons in 1 Being. That's heresy. And you are the one denying the Scrpiture... that you maliciously EDITED in order to suit yout distorted premises.....

Jesus said..... that his Father is greater than him..... Look an read again....



The fact is, just like your forefathers, Gentiles do not have God in this world in the beginning....

Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

raying:

the Son became the Angel of the Lord in OT, was GOD, and he was in the Burning Bush to Moses, he was YAHWEH...

the father/jesus/Holy Spirit are EQUALLy GOD...

God the Son became jesus in the Incarnation, and as such, He willingly allowed Himself to NOT be all knowing while on earth, did not excercise ALL of His divine attributes, living as a Man while among us...

being 'self limited' at that time did NOT know all things, but since ascended exercising ALL Deity attrubutes fully again!

 

[Seve]

the Son became the Angel of the Lord in OT, was GOD, and he was in the Burning Bush to Moses, he was YAHWEH...

the father/jesus/Holy Spirit are EQUALLy GOD...

God the Son became jesus in the Incarnation, and as such, He willingly allowed Himself to NOT be all knowing while on earth, did not excercise ALL of His divine attributes, living as a Man while among us...

being 'self limited' at that time did NOT know all things, but since ascended exercising ALL Deity attrubutes fully again!

Yes and No...... As I have posted before, YHVH, because of his physical nature as our Lord God.... even in the Old Testament..... his power was limited compare only to his invisible Father.... who's omnicient and omnipresent.... the Spirit of Love that never change.

In the Book of Genesis 18... we read the following declaration from our Lord YHVH, the Son of the invisible Almighty God Father of whom no man hath seen at anytime nor his name been revealed to anyone at this time.... Note: Insertions are mine for presentation.

Genesis 18:20 And the LORD (YHVH) said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; v21 I will go down now (physically) , and see (with his own eyes) whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

As you can see, because of the physical nature of our Lord YHVH, the Son of invisible Almighty God Father .... the only God physically formed for us to see - He is limited in his power as God compare to his invisible Almighty God Father.... who is omnicient and omipresent God - the Spirit of Love that never change.

Therefore, our Lord YHVH of old could not have been the invisible Almighty Father..... but the Son of God himself, the Christ. No man knows the name of the invisible God Father of our Lord Jesus Christ at this time, until one overcometh in the end...

Look and read...

Revelation 3:12 HIM THAT OVERCOMETH will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

:godisgood: