Whose Son is YHVH, the Christ?

[DHK]

The Holy Spirit is Jesus. Jesus is love.

The Holy Spirit is not Jesus. You recognize this in your own website. Jesus sent to us the Holy Spirit, another person of the triune Godhead. He is a separate person. Jesus did not send Jesus. If he is not a separate person how could Jesus send the Holy Spirit. You recognize this on your website, why are you contradicting yourself now?

Jesus can speak to anyone outside your body and mind, as a voice you would hear from someone else.

The Bible is clear on how "Jesus" speaks. Read Hebrews 1:2. God speaks to us through his Son. His Son is revealed to us through his Word. Everything we know about Christ is through the Word of God. That is in contrast to the OT (vs.1) where the Lord spoke through the prophets at various times and in different manners, such as dreams, visions, audibly, etc. He does not do that any more. We have his Word.

We pray to God through Jesus and communicate that way.

That is our method of communicating to Christ.

We are in constant communion with God and Jesus if you have the Holy Spirit living in you.

Note the differentiation you are making. The Holy Spirit is not Jesus. The Holy Spirit is not the Father. He is a different person. And it is the Holy Spirit that lives in the believer.

I believe the Holy Spirit can move you think of something.
The Holy Spirit is a feeling for love is a feeling.

This is nonsense and an erroneous teaching.
First, the Holy Spirit is a person, the third person of the triune Godhead.
He is a person not a feeling. How would you like it if someone referred to you as a feeling--that is all you are a "feeling," not a real person. You insult the Holy Spirit.
Ananias, in Acts 5, "lied to the Holy Spirit." You don't lie to feeling, you lie to persons.
Second, Love is not a feeling. Love is a self sacrificial giving of oneself.
It was love when Jesus died for us. IT wasn't wishy-washy, mushy-gushy feelings that Christ had. It was torture. He was scourged, spit upon, mocked, reviled, and finally nailed to the cross and hung there to die until he expired and his body was taken down and buried. That was love. It was torture. The feelings he felt were feelings I never want to feel. I don't want to be crucified, scourged as he was scourged. I don't want to go through that physical agony. Many people in the Philippines every Good Friday, try to have themselves crucified. They try to imitate the pain of Christ. Why? That is not what Christ intended his followers to do. Love is not feeling. It is a self-sacrificing of oneself. It is reflected in how much you are willing to sacrifice of yourself for others--like in obeying the Great Commission and going to be a missionary to an Islamic land that has never heard the gospel.

[FONT=&quot]"Some wish to live within the sound of Church or Chapel bell; I want to run a Rescue Shop within a yard of hell."—C. T. Studd[/FONT]

 

[The Biblicist]

Do you want to answer the question, whose Spirit does a person receive when they are saved?
.

Whose Son do we receive by Faith? Whose Father do we pray to? Whose Spirit do we receive?

However, it is unbiblical to say the Father IS the Son as that is simply not true any more than YOU are the same as YOUR Father. The Father SENT the Son.

Moreover, it is just as unbiblical to say the Son IS the Holy Spirit as that is simply not true. The Son SENT the Spirit an the Spirit glorifies the Son.

Finally, it is equally unbiblical to say that the Spirit IS the Father as that is equally untrue. Both the Father and the preincarnate Son share the same substance as angels which is a spiritual substance but The Holy Spirit shares the same spiritual substance and yet is distinct from both the Father and the Son.

When you claim that they are all the SAME you are denying the God of the Bible who is a PLURAL God as the Hebrew Elohim is a PLURAL noun. In Hebrew there is a singular = one; there is a dual = two; there is a plural = three or more. Elohim is a PLURAL noun translated "God" and yet it is used with singular verbs and PLURAL pronouns as in Genesis 1:1 and 1:26.

 

[Moriah]

Whose Son do we receive by Faith? Whose Father do we pray to? Whose Spirit do we receive?

However, it is unbiblical to say the Father IS the Son as that is simply not true any more than YOU are the same as YOUR Father. The Father SENT the Son.

You are going back to human analogy. I have a child but that child is not me. However, maybe an analogy of cloning might make you understand better.

Moreover, it is just as unbiblical to say the Son IS the Holy Spirit as that is simply not true. The Son SENT the Spirit an the Spirit glorifies the Son.

It is what the Bible says!

Romans 5:5 And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

Titus 3:5, 6 He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior,

These scriptures show…

that God pours love, Romans 5:5.

God pours the Holy Spirit, Titus 3:5,6.

Now read this scripture.

…God is love. 1 John 4:8

These scriptures show that God is love, Jesus is love, and the Holy Spirit is love.

These scriptures also show that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same.

“by the Holy spirit” Romans 5:5.

“through Jesus” Titus 3:6.

I have more scriptures that I can show you.

 

[Moriah]

The Holy Spirit is not Jesus. You recognize this in your own website.

I give scripture that shows Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same.

Think of why Jesus did not give the Holy Spirit until after he went back to the Father.

The Bible is clear on how "Jesus" speaks. Read Hebrews 1:2. God speaks to us through his Son. His Son is revealed to us through his Word. Everything we know about Christ is through the Word of God. That is in contrast to the OT (vs.1) where the Lord spoke through the prophets at various times and in different manners, such as dreams, visions, audibly, etc. He does not do that any more. We have his Word.

Jesus can speak to anyone he chooses to speak. I do not think it happens often though, I know that it does happen.

Note the differentiation you are making. The Holy Spirit is not Jesus. The Holy Spirit is not the Father. He is a different person. And it is the Holy Spirit that lives in the believer.

The Holy Spirit is Jesus. We are given the Spirit of Jesus. We are given the Spirit of God. I can show you scripture for everything I say.

We are in constant communion with God and Jesus if you have the Holy Spirit living in you.

This is nonsense and an erroneous teaching.
First, the Holy Spirit is a person, the third person of the triune Godhead.

A person is a human.

He is a person not a feeling. How would you like it if someone referred to you as a feeling--that is all you are a "feeling," not a real person. You insult the Holy Spirit.

God pours the Holy Spirit into our hearts. The Holy Spirit is Jesus. Jesus is love. God pours love into our hearts.

Second, Love is not a feeling. Love is a self sacrificial giving of oneself.
It was love when Jesus died for us. IT wasn't wishy-washy, mushy-gushy feelings that Christ had. It was torture. He was scourged, spit upon, mocked, reviled, and finally nailed to the cross and hung there to die until he expired and his body was taken down and buried. That was love. It was torture. The feelings he felt were feelings I never want to feel. I don't want to be crucified, scourged as he was scourged. I don't want to go through that physical agony. Many people in the Philippines every Good Friday, try to have themselves crucified. They try to imitate the pain of Christ. Why? That is not what Christ intended his followers to do. Love is not feeling. It is a self-sacrificing of oneself. It is reflected in how much you are willing to sacrifice of yourself for others--like in obeying the Great Commission and going to be a missionary to an Islamic land that has never heard the gospel.

Love is a feeling.

 

[The Biblicist]

You are going back to human analogy.

Those are not human analogies but precise words of Scripture. The Scriptures speak of receiving Christ. The scriptures speak of praying to "our Father" Christ calls Him "my father." The Scriptures speak of receivng the Spirit.

I have a child but that child is not me. However, maybe an analogy of cloning might make you understand better.

Ok, but the clone is distinct from that which it has been cloned from - they are DIFFERENT they are not the same.

It is what the Bible says!

Nowhere in the Bible does it ever say that Jesus IS the Holy Spirit! Nowhere!

Romans 5:5 And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out his love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom he has given us.

You need to keep to Biblical words. This text says love is poured into our hearts "BY" the Holy Spirit - It is the POWER of the Holy Spirit that produces love within us.

Titus 3:5, 6 He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior,

Again, stick to the Biblical language. The text says "BY" the Holy Spirit. It is "BY" the Holy Spirit's power we are regenerated.

These scriptures show…

that God pours love, Romans 5:5.

God pours the Holy Spirit, Titus 3:5,6.

This is metaphorical language as the Holy Spirit and Love are not ORGANIC MATERIALS like water which can be LITERALLY poured out. To "pour out" love is a metaphor to IMPART something.

Now read this scripture.

…God is love. 1 John 4:8

So you think God is LIQUID that can be LITERALLY poured out like water from a cup?? God is holy too! God is righteous also? God is eternal too! God is just also! God is good too! You are mixing oranges with apples or to say it so that you can understand what I am saying, you are mixing METAPHORICAL langauge [pour out] with literal attributes ["love"].

These scriptures show that God is love, Jesus is love, and the Holy Spirit is love.

Love, holiness, eternal, immutability, omniscience, omnipresence are all attributes that define what it means to be "God" or what "God" is by nature. The Father and the Son and The Holy Spirit all equally share these same attributes that make "God" to be "God." However, equal attributes does not mean the Father IS the Son or the Spirit IS the Son and only means that all three equally share what it takes to be "God" in regard to attributes. You and I share equal attributes that make a human to be human but we are not the same except that we share the same attributes.

These scriptures also show that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same.

“by the Holy spirit” Romans 5:5.

“through Jesus” Titus 3:6.

I have more scriptures that I can show you.

You are failing to stick to the words of Scripture. You ignore the prepositions being used such as "by" and "through" and "of." You are making them all mean the same when they are no more the same in meaning as The Father is the same as The Son or the Spirit is the same as the Father except in attributes that make "God" to be "God."

 

[Moriah]

Those are not human analogies but precise words of Scripture. The Scriptures speak of receiving Christ. The scriptures speak of praying to "our Father" Christ calls Him "my father." The Scriptures speak of receivng the Spirit.

God came to earth as a man.

Ok, but the clone is distinct from that which it has been cloned from - they are DIFFERENT they are not the same.

God came to earth as a man.

Nowhere in the Bible does it ever say that Jesus IS the Holy Spirit! Nowhere!

I just gave you scriptures that show this, and I can give more.

You need to keep to Biblical words. This text says love is poured into our hearts "BY" the Holy Spirit - It is the POWER of the Holy Spirit that produces love within us.

You are the one not keeping to scripture.
God is love.
Jesus is love.
The Holy Spirit is love.

Again, stick to the Biblical language. The text says "BY" the Holy Spirit. It is "BY" the Holy Spirit's power we are regenerated.
You are failing to stick to the words of Scripture. You ignore the prepositions being use "by" and "through" and "of" making them all mean the same when they are no more the same in meaning as The Father is the same as The Son or the Spirit is the same as the Father except in attributes that make "God" to be "God."

You are quarreling about words!
You are wrong.
“By” and “from” are not different.
Read and consider carefully John 1:3, 10; Romans 11:36; and Colossians 1:16.
You cannot see or know the Truth. Try repenting for following falseness. Start obeying Jesus.

 

[Moriah]

Biblicist,

Whose Spirit does a saved person receive? Do you know?

Tell me the difference between God and Jesus in this scripture.

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

 

[Seve]

Again.......... In Matthew 22 we read the following... Inserstion are mine for presentation.

41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44 The LORD (?) said unto my (David’) Lord (YHVH), Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

Questions remain unanswered…

1) If David’ Lord in the Old Testament was YHVH (Adonai)…. who’s was the LORD who ask David’s Lord to sit down on his right hand until He put His enemies in His footstool?

Revelation 3

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

After Jesus resurrection.....who's this God, the Lord was referring to as his God?

Conclusion:

No man knows the name of the invisible Almighty God Father at this time.

 

[The Biblicist]

God came to earth as a man.

God came to earth as a man.

If All there is of the Godhead came to earth then why did Jesus on earth prayer "Our Father which art IN HEAVEN"??

I just gave you scriptures that show this, and I can give more.

No you did not. You ignored the wording of the scriptures. Get a dictionary and look up "by" and "from" and "through".

God is love.
Jesus is love.
The Holy Spirit is love.

And that proves what? God is holy, Jesus is holy and the Holy Spirit is holy? These are common attributes all Three share coequally. You are confusing an attribute with Who it is that shares that attribute.

You are quarreling about words!...You are wrong.
“By” and “from” are not different..

What do you think the Bible is? Wrong words produce wrong doctrine and you are attempting to do what any seventh grader knows is wrong - claim that by, through and from are the same as "is"! Can you find any dictionary that says by, through and from are all snyonyms? Even more trouble for you is the fact they represent different Greek terms in the Scripture as well (eis, dia, ek).

You cannot see or know the Truth. Try repenting for following falseness. Start obeying Jesus.

You close your post by making accusations and yet that is precisely what you have judged me for in the past.

 

[DHK]

You sure cannot explain how Jesus was alive before he came to earth, that he lived with God before coming to earth, and that he WAS God. You cannot explain that with the trinity explanation. The trinity explanation just cannot get out of saying there are three Gods. Tell me, how is Jesus God and the Son?

It sounds like you have taken a turn for the heretical. Christ is an eternal being. You seemed to agree with my definition yesterday. What happened?
The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate persons, and yet one God. They are co-eternal, co-existent, co-equal. They are separate and distinct beings, each one being a person separate from the other with different roles to play, and yet those three being one God.

"I am the Lord, saith Jehovah, before me there was no God formed, after me there shall no God be formed. I am the Lord and beside me there is no savior."
--There is only one God. He is an eternal triune being. He exists in three persons. Neither of those persons were ever created.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
--The trinity is referred to back here in Creation when this one singular God is referred to in the plural. The us that God is referring to is the Father, Son, and Spirit.

Jesus is the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. He was before creation. He is eternal.
Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
--The phrase means without end. He is without beginning, eternal.

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
--He has no beginning and he has no ending. He is eternal.

Revelation 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:
18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
--These expressions speak to his immortality, eternality.

1 Timothy 6:13 I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;
14 That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.
God spoke His Word came forth. Jesus is the Word of God. Everything was made for Jesus and by Jesus and through Jesus.
--He alone has immortality. The word immortality, used in this sense, means eternality, that is existing from eternity past to eternity present--without beginning and without end. He is not a created being.
To deny this is to deny Scripture.
CHRIST ONLY HATH IMMORTALITY
He is not a created being

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

Christ is our Creator. He is God, the second person of the triune Godhead who has existed from time immemorial. He is our Creator; we are the creature. He is not a created being. That is heresy.

 

[The Biblicist]

Again.......... In Matthew 22 we read the following... Inserstion are mine for presentation.

41 While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them,
42 Saying, What think ye of Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David.
43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in spirit call him Lord, saying,
44 The LORD (?) said unto my (David’) Lord (YHVH), Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool?
45 If David then call him Lord, how is he his son?
46 And no man was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.

Questions remain unanswered…

You want everyone to answer your questions and obections but up to this point you have ignored all questions and objections I have posted for you? Do you live on a one way street or is this a debate???

1) If David’ Lord in the Old Testament was YHVH (Adonai)…. who’s was the LORD who ask David’s Lord to sit down on his right hand until He put His enemies in His footstool?

First, you are wrong about your Hebrew in Psalm 110. The one David calls "my Lord" is not YHVH but Adonai. The Hebrew text reads "The LORD (YHVH) said unto my Lord (Adonai). Check it out!

You are wrong about the use of YHVH as Isaian 44:6 and many other scriptures prove. It is used for the Father as much as the Son and in other passages it is used for the Holy Spirit or all three divine Persons.

Revelation 3

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

After Jesus resurrection.....who's this God, the Lord was referring to as his God?

He is speaking in the capacity as the God man just as he was in John 20:17

Conclusion:

No man knows the name of the invisible Almighty God Father at this time.

He revealed His name in the Old Testament as YHWH. When Gentiles were saved and baptized they often received a new name at their baptism which they called their Christian name because it was the beginning of a new life. Likewise, Jesus is referring to a new heaven and a new earth and thus a new life. In the new heaven and earth to come He takes on new role than the role he fulfilled in this age where sin and degradation existed. He came in this age as a lowly servant but in the new age he comes as King of kings and Lord of lords.

 

[The Biblicist]

These scriptures also show that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same..

You say all three are the same but then you claim that God created Jesus before the world was created.

Explain to me how they can be the same when you claim one created the other?????

 

[Thinkingstuff]

You say all three are the same but then you claim that God created Jesus before the world was created.

Explain to me how they can be the same when you claim one created the other?????

Sounds a lot like Arius doesn't he?

 

[Moriah]

If All there is of the Godhead came to earth then why did Jesus on earth prayer "Our Father which art IN HEAVEN"??

What do you mean, “If all there is of the Godhead”?
God came as a man, Jesus; Jesus was with God in the beginning. Jesus existed with God in the beginning.

No you did not. You ignored the wording of the scriptures. Get a dictionary and look up "by" and "from" and "through".

I did give you scripture showing this, and I can give you more. I will discuss it more with you later.

And that proves what? God is holy, Jesus is holy and the Holy Spirit is holy? These are common attributes all Three share coequally. You are confusing an attribute with Who it is that shares that attribute.

I am not confusing anything. You miss the point.

What do you think the Bible is? Wrong words produce wrong doctrine and you are attempting to do what any seventh grader knows is wrong - claim that by, through and from are the same as "is"! Can you find any dictionary that says by, through and from are all snyonyms? Even more trouble for you is the fact they represent different Greek terms in the Scripture as well (eis, dia, ek).

You do not understand, THE SCRIPTURES us the words ‘through’, ‘from’, and ‘by’ interchangeably. I will discuss this more with you later when I can get back on and have the time.

 

[Yeshua1]

The Holy Spirit is Jesus. Jesus is love.
I am not sure what you mean by communicate with us.
Jesus can speak to anyone outside your body and mind, as a voice you would hear from someone else.
We pray to God through Jesus and communicate that way.
We are in constant communion with God and Jesus if you have the Holy Spirit living in you.
I believe the Holy Spirit can move you think of something.
The Holy Spirit is a feeling for love is a feeling.
We also have the written Word of God, we are to consider them carefully, to obey, and be transformed by. We have them in our hearts and written in our minds.

jesus said that he would said ANOTHER, who would be IN THEM!

The Holy Spirit is like Jesus, in that Both are divine Persons within the trinity, but the Spirit is NOT Jesus!

 

[Moriah]

It sounds like you have taken a turn for the heretical. Christ is an eternal being. You seemed to agree with my definition yesterday. What happened?

I could not care less what you think I am.

You misunderstand much.

The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three separate persons, and yet one God. They are co-eternal, co-existent, co-equal. They are separate and distinct beings, each one being a person separate from the other with different roles to play, and yet those three being one God.

God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the same.

"I am the Lord, saith Jehovah, before me there was no God formed, after me there shall no God be formed. I am the Lord and beside me there is no savior."
--There is only one God. He is an eternal triune being. He exists in three persons. Neither of those persons were ever created.

Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
--The trinity is referred to back here in Creation when this one singular God is referred to in the plural. The us that God is referring to is the Father, Son, and Spirit.

There are three and they are the same.

Jesus is the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world. He was before creation. He is eternal.
Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
--The phrase means without end. He is without beginning, eternal.

Revelation 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
--He has no beginning and he has no ending. He is eternal.

You just quoted scripture that says I am the beginning and the ending, yet you turn around and say he has no beginning and no ending.

Christ is our Creator. He is God, the second person of the triune Godhead who has existed from time immemorial. He is our Creator; we are the creature. He is not a created being. That is heresy.

You act as if you are explaining something when you are not.

 

[Yeshua1]

What do you mean, “If all there is of the Godhead”?
God came as a man, Jesus; Jesus was with God in the beginning. Jesus existed with God in the beginning.

I did give you scripture showing this, and I can give you more. I will discuss it more with you later.

I am not confusing anything. You miss the point.

You do not understand, THE SCRIPTURES us the words ‘through’, ‘from’, and ‘by’ interchangeably. I will discuss this more with you later when I can get back on and have the time.

God the Son was with the father, as was the Holy Spirit...

The Sin became Jesus when he incarnated, and will now be forever the God/Man Yeshua!

 

[Moriah]

jesus said that he would said ANOTHER, who would be IN THEM!

The Holy Spirit is like Jesus, in that Both are divine Persons within the trinity, but the Spirit is NOT Jesus!

Jesus came in the flesh as a man.

Do you think that Jesus can live as a man inside people? Do you think that is what I am saying?

 

[Moriah]

God the Son was with the father, as was the Holy Spirit...

The Sin became Jesus when he incarnated, and will now be forever the God/Man Yeshua!

God the Son was with the Father and God the Son IS God.
The Son became Jesus when he came to earth as a man, but where do you get that Jesus is still a man, a human? Please show me scripture.

 

[The Biblicist]

Sounds a lot like Arius doesn't he?

Almost like a mixture of Arius and Sabbellius.