Featured PUBLIC THANK YOU...and a challenge!

If Paul had mentioned the completed New Testament somewhere in the same context as the word "perfection," then this would strengthen the argument that the word "perfection" refers to the completed New Testament. However, Paul did not mention the New Testament at all in the context of 1 Corinthians 13:10. Paul never said anything about that.
For example, every book of the New Testament written by Paul was a letter to a particular church, or to believers in a particular city, or to specific individuals. He always referred to his letters as "letters," not as new books of Scripture. Here are all of the places in e completed New Testament in the entire book of 1 Corinthians. In fact, Paul never mentioned a "New Testament" or a new set of Scriptures in any of his letters!

1 Corinthians 5:9, 2 Corinthians 7:8, 10:9-11, Colossians 4:16, 1 Thessalonians 5:27, 2 Thessalonians 2:15, 3:14, 17. Paul never referred to his letters as new books of Scripture, nor did he ever describe anyone else's writings as being new books of Scripture. Certainly Paul's letters are inspired Scripture, but the point is that Paul never made any kind of reference to a "New Testament" or a new set of Scriptures. We have no Scriptural evidence for taking Paul's vague statement, "when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears," as being a reference to the completed New Testament because Paul never mentioned such a thing as a "New Testament." In fact, after Paul died, roughly 75 years went by before anyone even tried to formally put together a new set of Scriptures, which we now call "the New Testament" (The History of Christianity, Dr. Tim Dowley, p.106). This makes it even less likely that Paul had such a thing in mind in 1 Corinthians 13:10.

You do not describe the tongues in the Bible...it is a language! But not a learned language!

 

I will continue debating this when you show me scriptures to back up your opinions!

 

Paul's use of the word "perfection" is rather vague, but he elaborated on this statement with three illustrations, all of which deal with our maturity as believers. Not one of these illustrations has any bearing on the completed New Testament.

Paul's first illustration is in 1 Corinthians 13:11, which immediately follows his use of the word "perfection":

"but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me." (1 Corinthians 13:10-11)

Paul's illustration speaks of maturity, but notice that he was not talking about the maturity of the New Testament. He was talking about our maturity as believers, which will finally be "perfected" or "completed" when we are transformed at the return of Christ (see 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, Philippians 3:20-21, and 1 John 3:2 above, for example).

Since Paul used a description of spiritual maturity to elaborate on his statement that "when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears," it provides further confirmation that this "perfection" does not refer to the completion of the New Testament.

Here's the next illustration that Paul used to describe "perfection" (which immediately follows the previous illustration):

"Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face." (1 Corinthians 13:12)

The exact same Greek phrase ("see face to face") is used in the Greek version of the Old Testament for seeing God face to face (Genesis 32:30), and the apostle John confirms for us that we will see God as He is (face to face) after Jesus returns for us and "perfects" our bodies at His coming (1 John 3:2).

Paul explained his statement about "perfection" by saying that "we shall see face to face," and we can see that it has nothing to do with the completion of the New Testament. Instead, it refers to our being transformed and taken into heaven when Jesus comes for us. Since Paul used this illustration to elaborate on his statement that "when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears," it provides further confirmation that this "perfection" does not refer to the completion of the New Testament.

Paul's final illustration in 1 Corinthians 13:12 puts the whole issue to rest:
"Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known." (1 Corinthians 13:12)

This does not describe the completion of the New Testament, because the New Testament was completed almost two thousand years ago and yet we still do not "know fully, even as [we are] fully known." Having a complete New Testament has not caused us to have a full, complete knowledge of God nor has it caused us to individually become "fully known" to one another.

Scholars say that Paul was martyred in 64 or 68 A.D., but there are several books of the New Testament which scholars believe were written after Paul died: Hebrews in 68 or 69 A.D., Jude somewhere between 67 A.D. and 80 A.D., the Gospel of John somewhere between 85 A.D. and 95 A.D., and Revelation, which many scholars agree was written in 95 or 96 A.D. In addition, the first formal list of New Testament books was not compiled until roughly 75 years after Paul's death (The History of Christianity, Dr. Tim Dowley, p.106), and the New Testament was not actually completed in its final form for another 250 years or so after that (The History of Christianity, Dr. Tim Dowley, p.205).

Paul said, "when perfection comes...then I shall know fully" (1 Corinthians 13:12, above). Some people believe that this "perfection" refers to the completion of the New Testament, but Paul did not live to see the completion of the New Testament. Paul's use of the word "perfection" cannot be a reference to the completed New Testament because that would contradict his statement that he himself would "know fully" when perfection comes.

 

No.

I have them. This is not my first rodeo.

But the impetus is on you to provide Scripture that explains WHY ON EARTH God would continue tongues when he has ceased EVERY OTHER FORM OF UNIQUE REVELATION HE EVER INSTITUTED BEFORE TONGUES.

You just want to talk about I Corinthians 13 because you think you are loaded for bear on that text.

That text is not, BY FAR, the best argument the cessationist has.

Don't tell me the God who CEASED writing on tablets of stone and the God who CEASED taking on the forms of Angels to communicate and the God who CEASED speaking with thunderous voices from the heavens and the God who CEASED speaking from burning bushes...

Don't tell me ALL of the sudden he STOPPED CEASING to speak in unique ways once the revelation was recorded in the Scriptures and assimilated.

We don't have to prove to you that God CEASES to speak in unique ways once the revelation is recorded and assimilated in the Scriptures. THE WHOLE BIBLE SHOWS THAT!!!

You have to show in the Scripture that tongues should be expected to continue.

You can't.

They shouldn't.

What you practice and what you have experienced is likely a bunch of emotional, sensational nonsense.

God has given us the New Testament. We don't need tongues any more than, since he has given us the Old Testament, we need tablets of stone.

 

Just curious if knowledge ceased too?

 

The gift of knowledge where you come to know things you have not studied or heard absolutely has.

God gives wisdom through HIS WORD. Now that we have his Word we don't need supernatural impartation of information without study.

 

There are three words related to how we receive the Scriptures: inspiration, revelation, and illumination. Maybe you would like to study and look those up!

 

So you think we are still receiving the SCRIPTURES????

 

Did I say that? NO!
Let me give you one..."All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable..." (2 Tim. 3:16)
Inspiriation (theopniustos) theo-God...pneo-to breathe...God breathed upon the prophets to write the Scriptures.

Revelation is a word meaning to unveil something that is hid. This happen when they penned it onto parchment the exact words God spoke, and it became the written word.

Illumination by which WE receive the light or the insight in our spirit of what has been written. It takes illumination to understand what is written.

We still need the Holy Spirit even in understanding the Word!

 

We need the Holy Spirit- yes. But what we DON'T have is new words besides those in SCripture coming to us by way of mindless jibber jabber.

 

So you are saying the the Spirit does not speak to your spirit about anything?

 

The Holy Spirit does speak to me- EXACTLY the way that Jesus said he would. Jesus said that the Comforter who he would send would "bring to your remembrance the things that I have told you..." The things I have told you. That's the word of God.

Now, a question for you.

Do you think the Spirit of God says things to you that are not recorded in the Word of God?

Because, if you do, this is TREMENDOUSLY problematic.

 

Acts 2:8 And how hear we, every man in our own language wherein we were born? ASV

Biblical tongues were actual known and learned languages; learned and known to the ones listening, but not learned and know by the ones speaking. That is why, on the Day of Pentecost, those from about 13 different nations could exclaim: "How hear we every man in our OWN LANGUAGE wherein we were born?" They were actual known languages. That list of nations that they came from is given in Acts 1.

Thus my question to you is:
First, why do those, especially Charismatics, who claim to speak in tongues, have to send their missionaries to language school before they send them to the foreign mission field. Kind of ironic isn't it?

I am a missionary. Why didn't God give me this gift? I had to learn some other languages. God just didn't give them to me. It would have been nice if he did, but he doesn't work that way any longer.

Third, give me an example of this gift in operation today. How has this gift? What people are miraculously being given languages so that they can communicate the gospel to those of other languages without studying the language before time. Please provide hard evidence.

 

So you are saying that you ask God to help you on a personal level.
Do I marry this girl? Do I take this job? Do I move to this city? Do I take this church? He does not speak to your spirit?

 

Please read my post! I have NEVER said that tongues were not a language!

Because the purpose of tongues was never for preaching the gospel. Those speaking at Pentecost were not speaking to the people, they were speaking to God magnifying God!

Tongues never worked the way we as Baptish have been taught. But it is real! Just because some abuse it or fake it does not mean that the Holy Spirit was taken away! His gifts are without repentance.

Again, if you study and pray yourself..search it out as I have. You will find that tongues are not to communicate the gospel.

 

I believe that all can "pray in the spirit" and Paul calls that tongues in Cor. 14.

But not all are called to give a message in tongues and interpret in a congregation. Or at least I have!

 

Well, I will leave you with this! But there is more to experience with God on a personal level.

 

I mean this with no ill will, but this is the charasmatic "cat call". It's like they are on a whole other level of spirituality than us baptists. It's akin to the "holier than thou" mentality.