Most drinkers are moderate

[Luke2427]

One of the great myths propagated by many teetotalism preachers is that all should abstain from drinking ANY AT ALL because it is so dangerously addictive and you are so VERY likely to become an alcoholic if you ever take the first drink.

But Forbes magazine published a study that said:

Worldwide, the W.H.O. asserts that some 2 billion people use alcohol at one time or another, with approximately 76 million deemed to have a problem.

TWO BILLION people!!

That means that more than 19 out of 20 people drink and are not considered to have a problem.

The chances of you NOT becoming an alcoholic when you drink is greater than 95%.

Now we don't know what Forbes considers a problem. But I think it is reasonable to say that Forbes magazine is not written by idiots. Their definition of problem, though it may not be identical to yours, is not going to be far off, if you are intelligent. The W. H. O. probably does not consist of morons either.

Now consider this. It is without a doubt that MANY, if not MOST of those 76 million people out of TWO BILLION drink TO GET DRUNK.

A large percentage of those people NEVER SET OUT TO DRINK RESPONSIBLY. From the START many, if not MOST, of them SET OUT to party hard and get drunk and many of them have every intention of getting soused nearly every weekend.

I grew up with drunks. They became alcoholic because THEY NEVER HAD MODERATION AS A GOAL TO BEGIN WITH!!!

So though the number of people who drink and become alcoholics is amazingly low ANYWAY- when you factor in the fact that MANY NEVER SOUGHT TO DRINK MODERATELY into the equation- the number of people who became alcoholics because they had every intention of drinking responsibly while surrounding themselves only with other people who only intended to drink responsibly-

Well....

I think that number is miniscule. I don't think that 1 in a million drinkers who only hang out with responsible drinkers and who only intend forever to EVER drink moderately- becomes an alcoholic.

It MIGHT be 1 in 2 million- but I doubt it.

 

[Gina B]

You're turning into your own best advertisement for teetotalism.

It's way too early to force me to picture you in a leotard and flowing cape with your fists on your hips, with a round circle patch on your arm that says "Spike" and a porcupine car for a sidekick, flying off to hospitals to appear with a beer at the bedside of all heart patients.

But it's amusing anyhow. Wakes me up enough to toy with the idea of going in to work. Not sure yet. Maybe if you start just one more thread on the topic, I can decide.

 

[Luke2427]

You're turning into your own best advertisement for teetotalism.

It's way too early to force me to picture you in a leotard and flowing cape with your fists on your hips, with a round circle patch on your arm that says "Spike" and a porcupine car for a sidekick, flying off to hospitals to appear with a beer at the bedside of all heart patients.

But it's amusing anyhow. Wakes me up enough to toy with the idea of going in to work. Not sure yet. Maybe if you start just one more thread on the topic, I can decide.

Did you have an argument?

I don't think you've made one since you began to engage me on this topic- not one.

I think all of your posts have been along these lines.

This IS a debate site, you know?

 

[Arbo]

You're turning into your own best advertisement for teetotalism.

It's way too early to force me to picture you in a leotard and flowing cape with your fists on your hips, with a round circle patch on your arm that says "Spike" and a porcupine car for a sidekick, flying off to hospitals to appear with a beer at the bedside of all heart patients.

But it's amusing anyhow. Wakes me up enough to toy with the idea of going in to work. Not sure yet. Maybe if you start just one more thread on the topic, I can decide.

 

[Crabtownboy]

One of the great myths propagated by many teetotalism preachers is that all should abstain from drinking ANY AT ALL because it is so dangerously addictive and you are so VERY likely to become an alcoholic if you ever take the first drink.

But Forbes magazine published a study that said:



TWO BILLION people!!

That means that more than 19 out of 20 people drink and are not considered to have a problem.

The chances of you NOT becoming an alcoholic when you drink is greater than 95%.

And think of how much trouble and misery that 5% has caused.

Now consider this. It is without a doubt that MANY, if not MOST of those 76 million people out of TWO BILLION drink TO GET DRUNK.

By the time they are alcoholics, yes ... but I have never talked with an alcoholic who said, "I started drinking so I could become an alcoholic."

A large percentage of those people NEVER SET OUT TO DRINK RESPONSIBLY. From the START many, if not MOST, of them SET OUT to party hard and get drunk and many of them have every intention of getting soused nearly every weekend.

If you mean when they first started drinking, then I would have to disagree.

I grew up with drunks. They became alcoholic because THEY NEVER HAD MODERATION AS A GOAL TO BEGIN WITH!!!

My guess that is an unsupportable claim. Do you have references we can look up on that topic?

So though the number of people who drink and become alcoholics is amazingly low ANYWAY- when you factor in the fact that MANY NEVER SOUGHT TO DRINK MODERATELY into the equation- the number of people who became alcoholics because they had every intention of drinking responsibly while surrounding themselves only with other people who only intended to drink responsibly-

Well....

I think that number is miniscule. I don't think that 1 in a million drinkers who only hang out with responsible drinkers and who only intend forever to EVER drink moderately- becomes an alcoholic.

It MIGHT be 1 in 2 million- but I doubt it.

That is a nice thought, but again I believe an unsupportable. As I said, I have never talked with anyone who said they set out to be an alcoholic.

Forbes is a good business magazine. I am not sure how good they are on social problems. But let's give them the benefit of the doubt on this one.

I also do not know what you mean when you say 'drink moderately'. Could you define that for me?

Also, why is this such a burning topic for you?

 

[Revmitchell]

Did you have an argument?

I don't think you've made one since you began to engage me on this topic- not one.

I think all of your posts have been along these lines.

This IS a debate site, you know?

I do not have an argument. And it is not required on this site to make one every time someone posts. And if you ask Andrew he would not tell you that this forum is strictly for debate. So you are off base.

Quite frankly you protest to much where none is needed. You appear to be trying to convince yourself more than anyone else. But in the end debating is one thing but arguing for the sake of arguing is less than honorable.

 

[Bronconagurski]

One of the great myths propagated by many teetotalism preachers is that all should abstain from drinking ANY AT ALL because it is so dangerously addictive and you are so VERY likely to become an alcoholic if you ever take the first drink.

But Forbes magazine published a study that said:



TWO BILLION people!!

That means that more than 19 out of 20 people drink and are not considered to have a problem.

The chances of you NOT becoming an alcoholic when you drink is greater than 95%.

Now we don't know what Forbes considers a problem. But I think it is reasonable to say that Forbes magazine is not written by idiots. Their definition of problem, though it may not be identical to yours, is not going to be far off, if you are intelligent. The W. H. O. probably does not consist of morons either.

Now consider this. It is without a doubt that MANY, if not MOST of those 76 million people out of TWO BILLION drink TO GET DRUNK.

A large percentage of those people NEVER SET OUT TO DRINK RESPONSIBLY. From the START many, if not MOST, of them SET OUT to party hard and get drunk and many of them have every intention of getting soused nearly every weekend.

I grew up with drunks. They became alcoholic because THEY NEVER HAD MODERATION AS A GOAL TO BEGIN WITH!!!

So though the number of people who drink and become alcoholics is amazingly low ANYWAY- when you factor in the fact that MANY NEVER SOUGHT TO DRINK MODERATELY into the equation- the number of people who became alcoholics because they had every intention of drinking responsibly while surrounding themselves only with other people who only intended to drink responsibly-

Well....

I think that number is miniscule. I don't think that 1 in a million drinkers who only hang out with responsible drinkers and who only intend forever to EVER drink moderately- becomes an alcoholic.

It MIGHT be 1 in 2 million- but I doubt it.

Polls like that are ok, but it doesn't break it down to the U.S., and that is where we live. I suspect the percentage is higher in the U.S., given the testimonies of how other countries drink so responsibly. Once we have a number in the U.S., I would like to see how many claim to be Christians.

 

[Gina B]

Perfect! ROFL

Luke, why are you looking for an argument? You want people to drink every day. I don't.

You made up your mind that you're right. I made up my mind that I'm right.

I just find the multiple threads a bit comical. There are other things to argue about. At least try switching things up a bit. I'll get you started.

Vanilla. The best is made from bourbon. Is using vanilla in baking wrong? That will grab the attention of the super strict teetotalers and might just get you the argument you're craving. Plus I think vanilla was only discussed once, which means it hasn't exactly been discussed ad nauseum, like the typical alcohol threads.

Either that or go with the classic chicken-or-egg-first discussion. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Bronconagurski]

OOPS! 30 percent of Americans may have drinking problem

One of the great myths propagated by many teetotalism preachers is that all should abstain from drinking ANY AT ALL because it is so dangerously addictive and you are so VERY likely to become an alcoholic if you ever take the first drink.

But Forbes magazine published a study that said:



TWO BILLION people!!

That means that more than 19 out of 20 people drink and are not considered to have a problem.

The chances of you NOT becoming an alcoholic when you drink is greater than 95%.

Now we don't know what Forbes considers a problem. But I think it is reasonable to say that Forbes magazine is not written by idiots. Their definition of problem, though it may not be identical to yours, is not going to be far off, if you are intelligent. The W. H. O. probably does not consist of morons either.

Now consider this. It is without a doubt that MANY, if not MOST of those 76 million people out of TWO BILLION drink TO GET DRUNK.

A large percentage of those people NEVER SET OUT TO DRINK RESPONSIBLY. From the START many, if not MOST, of them SET OUT to party hard and get drunk and many of them have every intention of getting soused nearly every weekend.

I grew up with drunks. They became alcoholic because THEY NEVER HAD MODERATION AS A GOAL TO BEGIN WITH!!!

So though the number of people who drink and become alcoholics is amazingly low ANYWAY- when you factor in the fact that MANY NEVER SOUGHT TO DRINK MODERATELY into the equation- the number of people who became alcoholics because they had every intention of drinking responsibly while surrounding themselves only with other people who only intended to drink responsibly-

Well....

I think that number is miniscule. I don't think that 1 in a million drinkers who only hang out with responsible drinkers and who only intend forever to EVER drink moderately- becomes an alcoholic.

It MIGHT be 1 in 2 million- but I doubt it.

That is much higher than the 5 percent in your article. I told you it was probably higher in the U.S., so you started crowing a little too soon, it seems.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/02/AR2007070201237.html

 

[Crabtownboy]

I am a bit surprised. I thought the percentage would be higher.

Sixty-seven percent of U.S. adults drink alcohol, a slight increase over last year and the highest reading recorded since 1985 by one percentage point. Beer remains the favorite beverage among drinkers, followed by wine and then liquor.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/141656/drinking-rate-edges-slightly-year-high.aspx

 

[Bronconagurski]

Here is a well reasoned article on alcohol and the bible

It views all sides and makes some points that some might find surprising.

http://bible.org/article/bible-and-alcohol

 

[Benjamin]

That means that more than 19 out of 20 people drink and are not considered to have a problem.

The chances of you NOT becoming an alcoholic when you drink is greater than 95%.

Alcohol-ism is very broad term and it would be interesting to see how you define “alcoholic”. To me an alcoholic is anyone who shows distinct traits of the regular use of alcohol.

Personally, I can very often pick out regular drinkers because of certain subtle (not lying in the gutter or staggering outside a bar, but through everyday noted characteristics through business and acquaintance relationships) stereotypical mannerisms, by the way they reasoning and the moods they live by and in and the “problems” they have (many of these may not have what one would commonly regard as serious problems in nature but they are “problems” none-the-same in my book because I know from where they have stereotypically originated) ; Again, even upon first meeting a person, often within just a few minutes, I can frequently turn around later when discussing that person and suggest he or she is a regular drinker and am very accurate with this. I do not do this as to be judgmental but as matter of fact. I have taught my children to recognize many of these characteristics and this phenomenon has proved to a good tool to motivate them not to begin drinking. My children have stated this is the leading reason they do not have the desire to drink, they do not what those characteristics to be part of their spiritual nature. IOW’s these people drink enough that I can recognize the features yet I can tell you with certainty that almost all these people would not admit to being an alcoholic or to alcoholism *.

*-ism - A distinctive practice, system, or philosophy,…

:laugh: BTW, this is a classic,…hilarious!!!…and something that if my children heard you say in front me would most definitely look to make eye contact toward me with a subtle startled expression about the revealing reasoning:

Most of humanity does not exercise regularly. So drinking beer is a good thing for those people who are simply not going to exercise.

:laugh: I’m thinking of making a poster with that caption under it to put on my gym wall:

MODERATOR NOTE: Photo images cannot exceed that of BB logo found in upper corner of home page

"Most of humanity does not exercise regularly. So
drinking beer is a good thing for those people who
are simply not going to exercise." ~Luke

:smilewinkgrin:​

 

[DHK]

One of the great myths propagated by many teetotalism preachers is that all should abstain from drinking ANY AT ALL because it is so dangerously addictive and you are so VERY likely to become an alcoholic if you ever take the first drink.

But Forbes magazine published a study that said:



TWO BILLION people!!

That means that more than 19 out of 20 people drink and are not considered to have a problem.

First, the population of the world is close to seven billion.
If two billion drink how does that translate into 19 out of 20?
Someone's math is wrong.

Secondly, out of that seven billion there are more than one billion Muslims (and growing rapidly), who, if they follow their religion, do not drink. If one out of seven do not drink, how would 19 out of 20 drink?
Again, another Math problem?

 

[InTheLight]

Personally, I can very often pick out regular drinkers because of certain subtle (not lying in the gutter or staggering outside a bar, but through everyday noted characteristics through business and acquaintance relationships) stereotypical mannerisms, by the way they reasoning and the moods they live by and in and the “problems” they have (many of these may not have what one would commonly regard as serious problems in nature but they are “problems” none-the-same in my book because I know from where they have stereotypically originated) ; Again, even upon first meeting a person, often within just a few minutes, I can frequently turn around later when discussing that person and suggest he or she is a regular drinker and am very accurate with this.

Oh, please do tell...

 

[Arbo]

Oh, please do tell...

I was thinking the same thing, so I'll second that request.

 

[Benjamin]

Oh, please do tell...

There is no way I could educate you and properly explain how this is done in this format or even in a short time in person, nor could I likely prove it here. But I have proved it many many times to skeptics, one of which was my own daughter who now it quite good at it also. My own wife, who came from red-neck Drinkville Montana was another skeptic whom I convinced. I can also do this with certain drug usage and just recently warned a neighbor Phoenix policeman that his 17 year old daughter was using and was headed towards problems, he somewhat took offense citing he would know if she did, two months later she was in hospital after almost dying from an OD. The older people get and the longer they have regularly used alcohol the easier it is to pick up on these stereotypical characteristics.

But…I really don’t care if anyone here "wants" to believe me or not.

P.S. the point of my post was to call attention to one's definition of what an alcoholic is and/or how it could be descibed, being a potentially broad term, and to say my definition goes much broader for the reasons I stated and was not meant to boast with or be judgmental with or about.

 

[Luke2427]

Polls like that are ok, but it doesn't break it down to the U.S., and that is where we live. I suspect the percentage is higher in the U.S., given the testimonies of how other countries drink so responsibly. Once we have a number in the U.S., I would like to see how many claim to be Christians.

Why?

_________

 

[Luke2427]

First, the population of the world is close to seven billion.
If two billion drink how does that translate into 19 out of 20?
Someone's math is wrong.

Secondly, out of that seven billion there are more than one billion Muslims (and growing rapidly), who, if they follow their religion, do not drink. If one out of seven do not drink, how would 19 out of 20 drink?
Again, another Math problem?

You don't understand where the 95% comes from?

76 millions drinkers out of TWO BILLION have a problem.


Let me say, having read the responses, other than Bronco, I've not seen anyone actually address my argument in the OP.

 

[dcorbett]

You are totally POSSESSED by this drinking issue. More and
more threads about drinking, and you are the one who
starts them.

Why don't you stop preaching about drinking and start preaching
about Jesus?? There's definitely more validity to that message!

 

[Luke2427]

You are totally POSSESSED by this drinking issue. More and
more threads about drinking, and you are the one who
starts them.

Why don't you stop preaching about drinking and start preaching
about Jesus?? There's definitely more validity to that message!

Why don't you stop screaming and ignore the thread if you don't want to talk about it?

Or better yet why don't you try to make an argument in support of or against the SUBJECT Of THE THREAD- which I think is the GENERAL IDEA of this thing?