Featured Is this a heresy?

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

 

One could say the same of your viewpoint that all gifts have ceased. It says nowhere that these will stop once the bible was completed. That is your opinion to shore up your unbelief, and or lack of faith in Jesus to do what we are to do. Maybe you tried praying and it did not work, that's no reason to create doctrine. A pity you have wasted so many years on head knowledge. The gospel always comes with demonstration praise God! That is where you will find credibility that comes from Jesus.

 

The verse I quoted was more in defense of John's scenario. Romans 16:17 says that we are to avoid those that cause divisions and offenses among us, and that, by John's definition, is a heretic. Those are the ones that come in and split churches, and as Paul says, those are the ones that we are to avoid.

Well it does, if you are willing to look at the Bible objectively, and consider just why the gift of "other languages" was given.
1. According to 1Cor.14:21 they are given as a sign to unbelieving Jews, specifically those of the first century. If they did not believe that sign they would face certain judgment. They did not believe. Judgment came in 70 A.D. That reason should be enough.

2. The gift of tongues, prophecy, and revelatory knowledge, as mentioned in 1Cor.13:8 are revelatory gifts. They would cease (as it says the would in that verse), when God's revelation (the Word of God) would be complete. That was at the end of the first century. 1Cor.13:8-13 explains that well. We don't need the temporary revelatory gifts for we have the completed Word of God. Those gifts were simply temporary, until the Word of God was completed.

3. They were the signs of the Apostles according to 2Cor.12:12. Perhaps it was not just one gift, but collectively the gifts of the Spirit were a sign of the Apostles that authenticated both them and their message as being from God.
If not, then one would have to outright deny the Bible:
Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4 God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

4. Tongues was not a gift for everyone. In fact it was the least important gift of all the gifts and there is no command to seek the gift.
1 Corinthians 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Notice the adverbs: First, secondarily, thirdly, after that, then,...
They denote order of importance. The one who was most important was the Apostle. The least important gift was the gift of tongues, listed at the bottom of the list. It was the least important of all the gifts.

1 Corinthians 12:29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
--Look carefully at these rhetorical questions. The obvious answer to these questions is "No."
There were only 12 apostles and they are all dead.
There were only a few prophets, and they all passed away by the end of the first century.
Did all work miracles in the church of Corinth? No. Maybe one or two did.
The same with healing? Maybe one to three had the gift. We are not told. But the fact is: Not all had the same gifts.
Not all could speak in tongues.

1 Corinthians 12:31 But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet shew I unto you a more excellent way.
--They were not to seek after tongues. Paul was going to show them something far better that they were to seek after. Then in chapter 13:1-7 one of the most beautiful passages in the Bible is written on love, not on tongues, but on love.

5. Throughout chapter 14 a comparison is made between tongues and prophecy. Throughout the entire chapter speaking in tongues is rebuked and the gift of prophecy is encouraged. Why? With prophecy there is understanding. With tongues there is no understanding.

It is not my opinion; it is my belief firmly established on the Word of God.
It has nothing to do with faith. I don't have to pray about those things that are wrong.

Benny Hinn believes that there are nine persons in the trinity. I don't have to pray about whether or not he is right. I know he is wrong.
By a study of the Scripture I know that the modern day tongues movement is totally against Scripture. I am convinced of that. It doesn't need prayer. It needs preaching against.

I do find the gospel preached with power. I see many people saved. But that has nothing to do with tongues.

 

Sometimes it comes down to visitors telling the church the truth of scripture that they are not aware of. If they leave the church it might be a good thing because the church was not able to teach truth, or accept it to begin with. Instead they might be focused on Sunday dinner and how the church can entertain.

 

"Do the works that I do."

 

That is one of the most misinterpreted verses in the Bible, especially by Charismatics.
Do you:
Walk on water,
Raise the dead (who have already been buried like Lazarus),
Feed thousands with just a couple of fish and a loaf of bread,
Calm the sea,
Heal the multitudes--all that came to him no matter what the infirmity was.
Turn water into wine.

Do you perform these miracles?

 

Through me, by His grace, Jesus healed the sick 4 times in front of me, others were released in faith. During and after this Jesus got the glory and it gave integrity to what I was saying, the gospel. It was true and real with others witnessing.

If you have ever witnessed God healing someone, you should praise God for it and have a hope that it can happen again.

If you have never witnessed a healing like this you have no credibility to comment on it except thanking God anyway. Do you care that the sick are healed no matter how? Do you have love?

So far you have showed no testimony about the supernatural power of God, yet you mock others that do.

You seem to think that when someone makes a decision to join your club, that is the only power of God available.

God told me a friend was in need once. It was a strong feeling he was in trouble after praying one day. He said Go! I had no idea how to find him. Had not seen him in 2 yrs or better.
God showed me.
I went and talked a man out of near death by sharing love and how much he was worth. He is after Christ now.

I call that a prophetic word from God. It was plain and loud.
Is that bad that God talked to me?
Is that bad the Spirit showed me where he would be after I asked?
Is that love?

These are experiences that I can weigh with the bible after they happen.
Glad I believe that Christians still do the work Jesus did, or a woman I know would still be crippled with arthritis.

 

I never said that I don't believe in healing. I do. I also have seen people in my ministry healed. I don't believe were in a competition here.
However that healing is in response to answer to prayer.
That is vastly different to the gift of healing as is demonstrated by Peter in Acts 5:16, where all those that were sick came from ALL the cities round about Jerusalem to Peter and Peter healed them ALL, not just four, but ALL who came to me--hundreds if not thousands of people. We have no faith healers today. The gift of healing has ceased. God still heals, but the gift of healing has ceased. There is a big difference.

I have many times, especially on the foreign mission field where people don't have access to hospitals.

The how is important. Satan can heal a person too. The Bible always takes precedent, not "healed no matter what." I take a stand where the Bible takes a stand. The gifts have ceased. That doesn't mean healing in and of itself has ceased. We cannot do the miracles Jesus did, nor even replicate the miracles that the rest of the Apostles did.

That is a poor assessment on your part.
God still works today, just not as he did in the first century. The gifts have ceased. Today he answers prayer according to his will.

What gives you that impression?

Why would you call "a strong feeling" the "prophetic word"? The two are not even related. Such "prophetic words" have ceased. They were used when the Bible was incomplete as a vehicle of revelation to communicate messages from God to man.
Would it not be more accurate to say that the Lord led you by his Spirit to that man. And yes I believe that can happen. I don't doubt you. I question your terminology, not your experience.

Yes, the Lord still works in marvelous ways today. I would never deny that. I don't call it the gifts of the Spirit, the baptism of the Spirit, etc. But God is still working in the midst of his people. He answers prayer. He leads us.

 

Sparked a memory. A pastor I sat under in northern Oklahoma related a situation that occurred to him. He was invited to preach at a church, but he didn't actually research the church before he went there; he assumed they knew he was an "old-fashioned" Baptist (more Southern Baptist than IFB). He got there and started preaching, and people started jumping up and down, speaking in tongues, being "slain in the spirit", etc.

Not expecting this, my pastor didn't know what to do. He said that he stepped down next to his wife, held her hand, and prayed as hard as he could, "Lord, if there's anything here that's not of you, let it be gone!"

The congregation quieted, people looked around confusedly, returned to their seats, and he was able to finish his preaching of the Word.

"Sometimes it comes down to visitors telling the church the truth of scripture that they are not aware of," indeed.

 

To me, the fruit of the Spirit seems a better witness to a person's spiritual status than the gift of "tongues".

"Tongues" can be mimicked but the fruit of the Spirit is a little more difficult...

Galatians 5

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.​

Years ago, I had a pastor friend tell me that he prefered to preach to a local body of those who had the gift of "ears" rather than "tongues".​

HankD​

 

An error that divides one from Christ is heresy.

The person described above is divisive and unruly and should be disciplined, but his doctrine isn't necessarily heretical.

 

Taking the denotative meaning as I've read it, any difference of opinion is a technical heresy. Baptists and Presbyterians hold to different heresies of Christianity. But the Scriptural use of the term seems to be one that describes false doctrine, not mere difference of opinion.

Brethren can have differences of opinion concerning wine, meats offered to idols and days of worship, and we are commanded to receive them, because Christ has received them. But one who is an heretick we are to reject. How can we reject one Christ has received?

 

I'm just saying that to call one a heretic, he must hold a doctrine erroneous enough that if believed, he cannot be called a Christian, whether or not in your view he was born again.