Featured Is this a heresy?

I agree. I think a heresy describes a doctrine that if confessed, one cannot be called a Christian.

Again, I'm not trying to argue with John, I just want to know when something becomes a heresy in his estimation.

 

That's obvious. I almost said you can't see the forest for the trees because of your view of the local church, but that would have seemed argumentative.

You said, "A false teaching that causes division."

In the situation I posed I described a false teaching that divided a local church, but you said it's not heresy. So there must a degree of falsehood and a degree of division.

Errors abound everywhere, and there are all kinds of division. I'm just wanting to know at what point it becomes a heresy in your estimation.

 

true , but a pastor holding to pentacostal views could teach in a baptist pulpit on the deity of christ for example, or how to walk in the Spirit, and NOT mention his particular views on second baptism tongues etc!

 

In most Baptist churches I know a Pentecostal pastor would not be able to get near the pulpit of that local church. They tend to guard their pulpits very carefully. The speaker must be of like faith and order.

 

We would allow one to teach, but ONLY with "understanding' that he would keep the message to general truths that we both would agrre on , such as Second coming, bible as inspired, trinity etc!

 

It becomes a matter of association, and also of ecclesiastical separation.
I don't want to be associated with those who preach error, and those who are associated with others who won't separate from apostasy, and liberalism.

Furthermore, in the example you gave, I have no idea what other doctrines such an individual may believe that I would not want to be associated with. There are some Pentecostals that deny the trinity. Would not that be important enough to you to keep him out of your pulpit even if he promised never to touch the subject? Those that deny the trinity, IMO, are not saved. They are wolves in sheep's clothing. They do not have a proper perspective of who Christ is. The Christ they believe in is not the Christ of the Bible.

 

DHK, do you think God will allow you to have your own little exclusive corner of heaven, where other believers will not be permitted to come near?

I just don't understand your attitude toward other Christians who don't believe like you do.

 

The Bible teaches that we all shall give account of ourselves before God for the deeds done in this body whether good or bad.

God has ordained the local church as his institution for this day and age.
Study Acts 20:17-35, where Paul calls the elders/pastors of the church of Ephesus together and gives them instructions before he goes to Jerusalem, knowing that he may very well die there. What does he tell them?
From verse 18 to 27 he gives a very moving testimony of all that he has done for them, all the sacrifices he has made, how he has taught them, and left nothing out.
In verse 28 he gives them from very important instructions:

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
--Pay attention, first of all, to your own selves.
--Then pay attention to the entire flock that God has put you over.
--Feed that flock, the church of Ephesus. Make sure you teach them well.
--It is God himself that purchased it with his own blood.

Then he tells them how false prophets will enter in after he leaves.
Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

The duty of every pastor is keep the church pure; free of error; and to keep the wolves and the false teachers out.
That means Pentecostals and Charismatics who would take the opportunity to teach in your church. They are wolves in sheep's clothing.

Amos said:
Amos 3:3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed?
--There is an obvious answer to that question. It is no.
I cannot walk hand in hand with a Pentecostal, and God doesn't want me to. He wants me to separate from all false doctrine, and have no fellowship with it.

Someday the Antichrist and the false prophet will be in control of a one world church, a one world religion. I believe there are two basic movements that are key in forming that one-world church. One is the Charismatic Movement, and the other is the Ecumenical Movement. The WCC supports them both. The Ecumenical Movement is, of course, a movement designed to bring all churches together, no matter what the cost is to doctrine. Doctrine doesn't matter. Let us just unite the churches together.
The Charismatic Movement (including all Pentecostals) is helping the Ecumenical Movement speed up its goal by using its experiential base of speaking in tongues. The tongues movement is spreading to virtually every denomination even those who are outside the realm of Christendom. It is a significant part of the Ecumenical movement, and now these two movements are rapidly gaining momentum, and every day moving closer to a one-world church.

Do I want to have any part of that? No.
2 Corinthians 6:17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,

You do what you want. As for me and my family we will follow the Lord.
I am not accountable to you; I am accountable to God.

 

I am certainly not in favor of a superchurch or one-world church; that is one extreme. But when you limit pure and error-free churches to only those which believe exactly as you do, that is the opposite extreme. I reject both extremes. I highly resent your insinuation that I am not following the Lord if I don't think and act like you do. Let me tell you something: If you think that your church and belief system is the only one that is pure and error-free and everyone else is teaching false doctrine, that is the height of arrogance and blatantly false.

So, you don't want to have anything to do with me? Well, the feeling is mutual.

 

That is not what I said.
I said: I am accountable to God for my actions; and you for yours.
I am accountable for God for what I teach my church and who I allow to teach my church; that is I am protective of my flock just as a real shepherd needs to be protective of his sheep. Jesus gave plenty of illustrations of that.

We all are accountable to God for our own actions.
God will judge us.
I will not judge you; and you will not judge me.
We give account to God.

 

Okay, if I was wrong, I apologize.

But here is what you said: "You do what you want. As for me and my family we will follow the Lord." If that is not saying that I am not following the Lord, what is it saying?

 

See my response to him.

In the past, I have been told a lot worse than what I thought he was saying. Perhaps you did not read any of that.

Look, I am just as opposed as you are to many Charismatic teachings, as I have been involved with Charismatics personally and saw the destructive side of this movement. But I have known some good and godly Charismatics, too, who do not believe those extreme and destructive things.

I don't like making blanket statements of condemnation, especially when it is not deserved.

 

That is Scripture. It is what Joshua said to Israel. Regardless of what you believe to be right or wrong I am going to follow the Lord.

To elaborate on it once again. From your perspective you don't like the way I do things. I don't really care. If the world be against me, I will follow the Lord.

 

I will follow the Lord, also, regardless if you or anyone else things I am or not.

 

I would do the same with regard to many Charismatics I have known. Some don't fit the mold that has been cast here, though.