Featured Calvinists... do you have a problem with the concept that God is the ultimate...

That is called slander plain & simple. Because you disagree with a person you attempt to discredit the individual. Nice, very nice.

 

No one who believes in Unlimited Atonement can possibly know if they are elect. If you believe in Unlimited Atonement, YOU cannot possibly know you are elect. If Jesus did not die for every single person, there is absolutely no way for you to know if Jesus died for you.

You seem to believe that if you believe Jesus died for you that your belief makes it so. That is utter nonsense, if UA is true and Jesus did not die specifically for you, it doesn't matter what you believe, your belief is vain and misplaced.

You, like most Calvinists do not truly understand your own doctrine, if you did, you would know that it is impossible for you to know you are elect.

What I said of Iconoclast is true, and if you believe in UA, it is true of you also.

 

Come on winman....you are bruising my inner child and causing me sadness:tear: I am shocked that you would express this to me.
As you have proclaimed me to be a parrot and full of hot-air...i am delicate and sensitive as I sense your displeasure at my posts.Somehow I will get through it all though:thumbs:

10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

 

You are a parrot, because if you were a truly thinking man you would easily spot how illogical and inconsistent Calvinism is. One such inconsistency is your belief that God determines all things that come to pass, including sin, yet God is not the author of sin.

As the article I posted a few pages back said, if God ordains everything that comes to pass, and it must unchangeably come to pass, then man has no choice but to sin if that is what God has ordained. If it is unchangeable, he could not have possibly not sinned. That is pure logic. That would make God the author of sin, yet you are not smart enough to see how illogical and inconsistent your position is.

For the record, I do not think you are really that stupid, but I do think you consciously put these inconsistencies out of your mind. But I have found in the quiet of night inconsistencies like this come to mind.

You know what I'm saying is true. If you want to play games with your own self, that is your business.

 

Your changing the subject to deflect from your shameful commentary about Brother Iconoclast. Besides, you have read my testimony & you know Ive been a changed man from the day of my salvation so I know I am saved.....and all who have been regenerated are saved....of that Im confident. Stick that in your pipe & smoke it!

 

Do you agree with Calvin, that even one that does such may even be deceived?

 

It is you, Winman, who believes in Unlimited Atonement ! I suppose that is the reason so many who hold to Arminian, semi-Pelagian, or Pelagian doctrine believe one can lose their Salvation. And it is reasonable I suppose, If you are the author and finisher of your Salvation rather than God it is certainly reasonable to believe you can lose it or deny it or!!!!

You have demonstrated in the above post just how much you understand about the Doctrines of Sovereign Grace.

 

I believe in eternal security, I challenge you to show where I have ever said otherwise.

I have said dozens of times I believe in Preservation of the Saints. I do not believe in Perseverance of the Saints, I consider that works salvation.

I am eternally secure because Jesus promised to save anyone who comes to him in faith. I am not saved because I am faithful to Jesus, I am saved because he will always be faithful to me.

You on the the other hand believe you must persevere to be saved. That is WORKS salvation friend.

 

That would be zilch however do not despair because I can lend assistance. Try getting your hands on the book "The Doctrines of Grace" by James Montgomery Boice & Philip Ryken-- the eighth and current president of Wheaton College. Good informational read & you can get it thru Amazon.

 

Yes, Calvin taught that God himself gives some persons a false faith (Evanescent Grace) that seems so real the person is truly deceived and believes themselves saved, but is not.

No one who believes in Unlimited Atonement can know if they are elect. They could be deceived by God himself with this Evanescent Grace that Calvin taught. They may believe themselves saved and be utterly lost.

Just because you believe Jesus died for you does not make it so if UA is true. You could believe a bridge is safe to drive across, but if it is rotten it will collapse and you will fall to your death. What you believe does not determine reality.

On the other hand, if Jesus died for ALL men as the scriptures teach, then every man can safely trust that Jesus died for him personally.

 

Benny, may I call you Benny? Or would you prefer Benj?

Your arrogance is exceeded only by your ability at semantic meandering! Having said that I must concede that you are a unique person. There is no one on this Board quite like you!

 

Humblethinker,

if you could cite that passage...is it in the institues, or sermons I would read what he has to say on it.

Without reading His statement....what peter puts before all christians is our duty...our human responsibility...to give diligence...

calling and election belong to God....

the assurance of this calling is made known to us in the path of holiness;
observe;

14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;

16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

HT...If I or anyone else is deceived dealing with impure motives ,God would cast that person into hell with a more severe judgement.

The call to examine oneself is given, as well as the warnings about false covenant breakers in the ot....

 

Here you go;

Boy, if I am so ignorant of Calvinism, how come I am having to show you this? I think the problem with most Calvinists is that they do not truly understand their own doctrine, if they did they would jump ship quick.

 

Winman,

Let's examine this from scripture as I suggested to your kindred spirit Benjamin...

7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

9 Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?

10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.

12 And the Lord said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand[/B]. So Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

In verse 12...God allows Satan to afflict and do evil unto Job....do you think that:

God was not in control of Satan? Does not look as if Satan wanted to bless Job.

It does not say that Satan wanted to bless Job...but God forced him to do evil now...does it? The way you and your team post it seems like you believe that,yet you say we are inconsistent....sure.....

Satan commits sin because he wants to. Man sins because He wants to. None of this happens outside of God's control.

 

Show me where the DoG Believer, follows an Unlimited Atonement doctrine

 

I will agree that God allowed Satan to afflict Job, but that does not mean that Satan is some sort of servant doing what God wants him to do. The scriptures say Satan is God's adversary, his enemy, not his servant.

Job was exceptional to most men in that he was under God's protection. God has promised to protect those that are obedient to him. This is the very temptation Satan used against Jesus when he challenged him to jump off the temple. Satan was quoting Psalm 91;

Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Satan was quoting Psalm 91 here;

Psa 91:11 For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.
12 They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

This promise is only to those who are obedient, there is no promise to the disobedient. In Job's case, Satan had to get permission to afflict Job because he was obedient and under God's protection. Satan said God had placed a hedge about Job and it was true.

But that is not true of all men. Most men are disobedient and Satan can afflict them at his will.

2 Tim 2:25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Satan does not need to get permission to ensnare the disobedient and rebellious persons, he can take them captive at his will.

You err, not knowing the scriptures.

 

Thanks for the link winman....:wavey:

calvinism as a teaching stands on scripture not Calvin.....Calvin wrote much on it, but the teaching comes from Jesus:thumbs::thumbs:

actually he misquoted as you do....look at it...he omitted...[to keep thee in all thy ways] it changes the whole passage...

so you now admit that God ordains whatsoever comes to pass without being the cause of sin?

 

Well, I cannot speak for every individual, but any person who claims to follow TULIP certainly believes in Unlimited Atonement.

I do know that many Calvinists reject Unlimited Atonement. That said, many hold to Unlimited Atonement.

If you ask me, anyone who rejects UA is not really a Calvinist, or at least not a consistent one.

Fact is though, if you believe in UA then you cannot possibly be sure you are elect, because you cannot know for a certainty that Jesus died for you personally. That is pure logic.

 

Well, here's the problem, if Jesus did not die for all men, then you do not know if Jesus died for you. Just because you believe Jesus died for you does not make it so if Jesus only died for some men. You could believe a wooden bridge is safe to drive over with your car, if the bridge is rotten the bridge will collapse and you will fall into the river and drown. What you believe does not determine reality.

If on the other hand Jesus died for 100% of all men, then every man can safely trust that Jesus died for him. This is true faith, this is faith founded on the word of God.

Going back to the OP, if God unchangeably ordains all things that occur, then God ordains sin. Men cannot possibly do otherwise, so God would be the author of sin.

That is simple logic that cannot be denied.

 

It is one thing to strongly and intensely disagree but it is quite another thing the way he goes about this; first and foremost his continual tactics of clearly breaking the rules by questioning others salvation which is abundantly clear to a multitude of members here concerning how he goes about this. I don’t believe one can be as clueless as he pretends to be on these issues.

His behavior is shameful regardless of the few who seem to enjoy his tactics and try to defend his actions so it can continue by attempting to throw Ad Hominems at me; these people simply share in his shame. But I am utterly fed up with his unethical methods and hope and pray the administration will finally come to recognize his unethical debate tactics and take the action to remove him from this board.

Personally, in the 6 years I have been here I have never felt it necessary to report a complaint or block someone from view. When I considered blocking him I started to wonder why I have should have to take such action to avoid being offended by the common tactics he continually uses on many others here; that doesn’t solve the problem of how he behaves here, then it seemed to me his actions are commonly recognized and the best course of action would be to bring this issue out in the open and see if some action against you might take place.

It seems clear to me he continually crosses the line of ethical debate (his tactics of questioning others salvation alone demonstrates this, as I have noted and taken issue with from within this very thread) and I strongly believe he should be held accountable these actions as it is detrimental toward trying to maintain an enjoyable peaceable atmosphere on this board.

And yes, I know I have the option to simply leave this board and that is also under consideration if this board continues to ignore this issue being it has been brought it to light.