Do most Baptist believe...

[awaken]

What part of these 10 listing do most Baptist agree on? I know that # 10 is out for most...

1.The Bible is the infallible, inerrant Word of God, and it is the final authority on all matters which it addresses.

2.The books of the Bible were written by human authors under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The original manuscripts of the Bible were written without errors or contradictions.

3.There is one true God who exists in three divine Persons: the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. Each of these Persons is able to relate to the others (for example, the Father is able to talk to the Son), and each is God.

4 God created the heavens and the earth in six literal, 24-hour days. The sun, moon, earth, etc., were not formed after billions of years of stellar evolution.

5. Adam and Eve did not evolve from lower forms of life, but instead they were directly created by God. They sinned by disobeying God, and as a result all of mankind was brought under the condemnation of God.

6. Jesus Christ is the one and only Son of God, who humbled Himself and was born on earth as a human. He lived a completely sinless life and then He voluntarily took upon Himself all of the sins of the world, giving His life in order to atone for our sins. He paid our penalty by being punished on the cross in our place. He is 100% man and 100% God.

7.Our human nature is corrupt and "fallen." We are totally unable to earn our salvation through any good deeds or religious ceremonies (such as baptism) or other works. Our salvation is a free gift from God because of His grace, His undeserved favor toward us, and it's only through trusting in Jesus as our risen Savior that we're able to receive salvation and eternal life.

8. When we trust in Jesus as our risen Savior, at that precise moment we are justified (declared righteous with all of our sins forgiven), we are regenerated (born again), we are sanctified (made holy and set apart for God), and we receive the Holy Spirit who dwells within us to guide us and to renew us day by day. Our sanctification is a continuing process throughout our life here on earth.

9. At any moment, Jesus will come down from heaven to snatch all Christians (living and dead) off of the earth and take them back into heaven with Him, which we refer to as the pre-tribulational Rapture. At some point after the Rapture, the seven-year Tribulation period will begin. The Tribulation will be the time of God's wrath being poured out on the earth, and it will end at the Second Coming of Christ. After the Second Coming, Christ will set up His government and will reign in righteousness on earth for one thousand years, and we Christians will reign with Him during that time.

10. All of the gifts of the Spirit such as tongues, prophecies, words of knowledge, healing, and so on, are still operational today. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a second experience of the Holy Spirit which we can choose to receive after salvation, and it's for the purpose of empowering us for our ministries.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

What part of these 10 listing do most Baptist agree on? I know that # 10 is out for most...

1.The Bible is the infallible, inerrant Word of God, and it is the final authority on all matters which it addresses.

2.The books of the Bible were written by human authors under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The original manuscripts of the Bible were written without errors or contradictions.

3.There is one true God who exists in three divine Persons: the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. Each of these Persons is able to relate to the others (for example, the Father is able to talk to the Son), and each is God.

4 God created the heavens and the earth in six literal, 24-hour days. The sun, moon, earth, etc., were not formed after billions of years of stellar evolution.

5. Adam and Eve did not evolve from lower forms of life, but instead they were directly created by God. They sinned by disobeying God, and as a result all of mankind was brought under the condemnation of God.

6. Jesus Christ is the one and only Son of God, who humbled Himself and was born on earth as a human. He lived a completely sinless life and then He voluntarily took upon Himself all of the sins of the world, giving His life in order to atone for our sins. He paid our penalty by being punished on the cross in our place. He is 100% man and 100% God.

7.Our human nature is corrupt and "fallen." We are totally unable to earn our salvation through any good deeds or religious ceremonies (such as baptism) or other works. Our salvation is a free gift from God because of His grace, His undeserved favor toward us, and it's only through trusting in Jesus as our risen Savior that we're able to receive salvation and eternal life.

8. When we trust in Jesus as our risen Savior, at that precise moment we are justified (declared righteous with all of our sins forgiven), we are regenerated (born again), we are sanctified (made holy and set apart for God), and we receive the Holy Spirit who dwells within us to guide us and to renew us day by day. Our sanctification is a continuing process throughout our life here on earth.

9. At any moment, Jesus will come down from heaven to snatch all Christians (living and dead) off of the earth and take them back into heaven with Him, which we refer to as the pre-tribulational Rapture. At some point after the Rapture, the seven-year Tribulation period will begin. The Tribulation will be the time of God's wrath being poured out on the earth, and it will end at the Second Coming of Christ. After the Second Coming, Christ will set up His government and will reign in righteousness on earth for one thousand years, and we Christians will reign with Him during that time.

10. All of the gifts of the Spirit such as tongues, prophecies, words of knowledge, healing, and so on, are still operational today. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a second experience of the Holy Spirit which we can choose to receive after salvation, and it's for the purpose of empowering us for our ministries.

I affirm numbers 3,5,7,8.

 

[12strings]

What part of these 10 listing do most Baptist agree on? I know that # 10 is out for most...

1.The Bible is the infallible, inerrant Word of God, and it is the final authority on all matters which it addresses.

2.The books of the Bible were written by human authors under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. The original manuscripts of the Bible were written without errors or contradictions.

3.There is one true God who exists in three divine Persons: the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. Each of these Persons is able to relate to the others (for example, the Father is able to talk to the Son), and each is God.

4 God created the heavens and the earth in six literal, 24-hour days. The sun, moon, earth, etc., were not formed after billions of years of stellar evolution.

5. Adam and Eve did not evolve from lower forms of life, but instead they were directly created by God. They sinned by disobeying God, and as a result all of mankind was brought under the condemnation of God.

6. Jesus Christ is the one and only Son of God, who humbled Himself and was born on earth as a human. He lived a completely sinless life and then He voluntarily took upon Himself all of the sins of the world, giving His life in order to atone for our sins. He paid our penalty by being punished on the cross in our place. He is 100% man and 100% God.

7.Our human nature is corrupt and "fallen." We are totally unable to earn our salvation through any good deeds or religious ceremonies (such as baptism) or other works. Our salvation is a free gift from God because of His grace, His undeserved favor toward us, and it's only through trusting in Jesus as our risen Savior that we're able to receive salvation and eternal life.

8. When we trust in Jesus as our risen Savior, at that precise moment we are justified (declared righteous with all of our sins forgiven), we are regenerated (born again), we are sanctified (made holy and set apart for God), and we receive the Holy Spirit who dwells within us to guide us and to renew us day by day. Our sanctification is a continuing process throughout our life here on earth.

9. At any moment, Jesus will come down from heaven to snatch all Christians (living and dead) off of the earth and take them back into heaven with Him, which we refer to as the pre-tribulational Rapture. At some point after the Rapture, the seven-year Tribulation period will begin. The Tribulation will be the time of God's wrath being poured out on the earth, and it will end at the Second Coming of Christ. After the Second Coming, Christ will set up His government and will reign in righteousness on earth for one thousand years, and we Christians will reign with Him during that time.

10. All of the gifts of the Spirit such as tongues, prophecies, words of knowledge, healing, and so on, are still operational today. The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a second experience of the Holy Spirit which we can choose to receive after salvation, and it's for the purpose of empowering us for our ministries.

MOST BAPTISTS: 1,2,3,5,6,7,8.
4-more and more are rejecting this...but still belieiving 5 that man is a special creation
9-Baptists have all sorts of end times views...I don't know percentages
10-most baptist do not believe sign gifts are for to day...and even LESS believe in a separate Baptism of the H.S...most would say it is the same as indwelling.

ME: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,
9-I have no eschatology position...I can't make any firm sense of that stuff. However it does seem to me that the church is inheriting the promises of Israel, that we are the spiritual seed of Abraham, and that not all physical Israel is really children of abraham sprititually.

10-I believe in a limited continuationism, that God can use tongues and miracles for his purposes...most commonly it seems on the mission field among very superstitious peoples. Prophesy can be helpful word from a brother or sister that may be from God, but must be wieghed against scripture ("I think we should rebuild that church in haiti"...or "You should go into the ministry" that person may or may not be correct, but if they are, it can be considered prophesy from God.) Healing is manifest not by certain people who have magic hands, but by certain people who are prayer warriors that God for some reason seems to answer their prayers more dramatically when they pray for someone's healing. Tongues today are very rarely used in the manner described in 1 Cor. 14, so I believe most of what passes for tongues today is not legitimate, but rather learned...based on a near absence of them for about 1900 years. Private prayer language arguments could go either way, and I have no problem with anyone doing it, so long they have more confidence in Christ than they do in their Spiritual manifestations. I don't believe any of the sign gifts are necessary for a faithful Christian, or the mark of a mature christian.

 

[awaken]

MOST BAPTISTS: 1,2,3,5,6,7,8.
4-more and more are rejecting this...but still belieiving 5 that man is a special creation
9-Baptists have all sorts of end times views...I don't know percentages
10-most baptist do not believe sign gifts are for to day...and even LESS believe in a separate Baptism of the H.S...most would say it is the same as indwelling.

ME: 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,
9-I have no eschatology position...I can't make any firm sense of that stuff. However it does seem to me that the church is inheriting the promises of Israel, that we are the spiritual seed of Abraham, and that not all physical Israel is really children of abraham sprititually.

10-I believe in a limited continuationism, that God can use tongues and miracles for his purposes...most commonly it seems on the mission field among very superstitious peoples. Prophesy can be helpful word from a brother or sister that may be from God, but must be wieghed against scripture ("I think we should rebuild that church in haiti"...or "You should go into the ministry" that person may or may not be correct, but if they are, it can be considered prophesy from God.) Healing is manifest not by certain people who have magic hands, but by certain people who are prayer warriors that God for some reason seems to answer their prayers more dramatically when they pray for someone's healing. Tongues today are very rarely used in the manner described in 1 Cor. 14, so I believe most of what passes for tongues today is not legitimate, but rather learned...based on a near absence of them for about 1900 years. Private prayer language arguments could go either way, and I have no problem with anyone doing it, so long they have more confidence in Christ than they do in their Spiritual manifestations. I don't believe any of the sign gifts are necessary for a faithful Christian, or the mark of a mature christian.

We agree on the same ones...
I also have gone back and forth with #9. I was raised to believe in pre-rapture but changed to 7th trump. Now I am at the point that when ever He decided will be fine! Everyday I will make myself ready anticipating it could be any day. I believe we will be spared the wrath of God...whether supernatual going through it or raptured before it.

#10 we differ in that I do not limit God in anyway! I believe that the way you describe a "prophecy" is more like a "word of knowledge" or "word of wisdom."
Tongues we will also disagree, because I do not think it is a learned manifestation. I believe all the manifestation in 1 Cor. 12 are supernatural (only believers can manifest them). The Holy Spirit gives the utterance Acts. 2 not a learned skill (unbelievers can learn a language). I also believe the absence of them are because we were taught unbelief about them, I believe we lost a lot during the "dark ages." God is restoring what man robbed us of!

I also believe the Bible teaches that tongues is a manifestation of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, BUT not the only one! It is given to praise and magnify God in private (Just as we can pray in our own understanding) or in public (IF in the assembly then it needs to be interpretated so the all can be edified).

Yes! Jesus is our confidence! It was my search for Him and to know Him more that I came across the truth concerning the manifestations. I believe He brought people in my life and planted seeds of this truth...but it took me years to shake my religious mindset to except it. THis truth has taken me closer and deeper into my walk with God.

Your last point I agree! If that was not true then Corinthians would not be able to manifest in order to be corrected.

Thanks for you replying...it it good to know that there is some common ground among some here!

 

[awaken]

I affirm numbers 3,5,7,8.

Thanks for replying! Glad to know there is some common ground! Curious why you do not believe the others 1, 2, 4, 6, what do you believe on #9, and most baptist do not believe in #10 or at least not all of it. But more and more in the South are!

 

[convicted1]

I disagree with #'s 9 & 10..............

 

[awaken]

I disagree with #'s 9 & 10..............

Thanks for responding..
So you do not believe in a rapture or just not a pretrib rapture?
#10 You do not believe in any of it or just some of it?

 

[convicted1]

I am "amill" to the core.


I do believe in the laying on of hands, but we don't have the power the Apostles had that could cause someone to leap up like Peter did at the gate called Beautiful.

 

[InTheLight]

I haven't parsed the phraseology of each point but on a quick read through I can affirm seven of them. I reject #10. I lean toward #9 as being true, but I'm not super confident in it. I have issues with the way #4 is phrased, at least it didn't say "about 6,000 years ago".

 

[awaken]

I haven't parsed the phraseology of each point but on a quick read through I can affirm seven of them. I reject #10. I lean toward #9 as being true, but I'm not super confident in it. I have issues with the way #4 is phrased, at least it didn't say "about 6,000 years ago".

Thanks for responding! Again it is nice to find common ground!
It is interesting how we disagree on more than #10 among the baptist!

 

[Yeshua1]

All but #10!

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Thanks for replying! Glad to know there is some common ground! Curious why you do not believe the others 1, 2, 4, 6, what do you believe on #9, and most baptist do not believe in #10 or at least not all of it. But more and more in the South are!

1 & 2: I hesitate to use the word "inerrant" to describe scripture, for at least two reasons: There are different definitions of inerrancy; I don't view the Bible as a "paper pope".

4: I don't know and ultimately don't care how God created the world -- whether in six literal days or a much longer period of time. To, me it doesn't make any difference.

6: The last part affirms penal substitution; I deny that.

9. I have no view on this. Like number 4, it's something we can't know, and I don't think it makes any difference what is true. I believe in the Second Coming; how and when that happens is okay with me. Except I will add this: I am not a fundie dispensationalist who believes that the church is only a parenthesis in history, waiting for the time when God removes it so He can deal with the real focal point of history, the nation of Israel. So, the Dome of the Rock must be blown up to hasten Christ's return, and the temple rebuilt so that animals can be dragged in and their throats cut again, the blood flowing out and down the temple steps to the glory of God! I reject that totally.

Hope that clarifies my stance.

 

[awaken]

1 & 2: I hesitate to use the word "inerrant" to describe scripture, for at least two reasons: There are different definitions of inerrancy; I don't view the Bible as a "paper pope".

4: I don't know and ultimately don't care how God created the world -- whether in six literal days or a much longer period of time. To, me it doesn't make any difference.

6: The last part affirms penal substitution; I deny that.

9. I have no view on this. Like number 4, it's something we can't know, and I don't think it makes any difference what is true. I believe in the Second Coming; how and when that happens is okay with me. Except I will add this: I am not a fundie dispensationalist who believes that the church is only a parenthesis in history, waiting for the time when God removes it so He can deal with the real focal point of history, the nation of Israel. So, the Dome of the Rock must be blown up to hasten Christ's return, and the temple rebuilt so that animals can be dragged in and their throats cut again, the blood flowing out and down the temple steps to the glory of God! I reject that totally.

Hope that clarifies my stance.

1 and 2 I will agree that it is not a paper pope..:thumbs:
I do believe...
Only God knows the exact meaning of what is written in Scripture. It is important that we ask God to help us see the truth in the Bible, which means that we need to know how to hear what He says to us.

The reason for honestly studying the Bible is because people sometimes want to find errors and contradictions, so they don't search very hard for the real truth. It is important to be honest with ourselves (and with God) when we study Scripture because human nature sometimes causes people to twist the meanings of certain passages (whether knowingly or unknowingly) in their zeal to find errors or contradictions in the Bible.

The reason for thoroughly studying a particular topic in the Bible is because it is easy to misinterpret individual passages if we don't properly fit them into the full teaching of the Bible on that topic.

The reason for objectively studying the Bible is because we are all human, and it is very easy for our emotions, our fallible human logic, and our preconceived biases and opinions to affect our understanding of what we read in Scripture. Our emotional reactions, our "logical" thoughts, and our biases often cause us to miss the true meaning of what God said.

 

[awaken]

6: The last part affirms penal substitution; I deny that.

Can you explain "penal substitution?" I am not familiar with that term.

 

[12strings]

Can you explain "penal substitution?" I am not familiar with that term.

1. Penal: (legal term refering to penalty for sin, based on the understanding that the Holy God must punish sin, we all deserve punishment for sin.

2. Substitution: belief that Jesus was put forth as a substitute to take the punishment and wrath from God the Father in place of sinners.

3. If you don't know what penal substitution is, you may want to study it a bit and take a break from studying tongues.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

Can you explain "penal substitution?" I am not familiar with that term.

I'll let the definition by 12strings suffice. That subject has been the catalyst for some "unpleasant" exchanges between me and some others here.

 

[awaken]

1. Penal: (legal term refering to penalty for sin, based on the understanding that the Holy God must punish sin, we all deserve punishment for sin.

2. Substitution: belief that Jesus was put forth as a substitute to take the punishment and wrath from God the Father in place of sinners.

3. If you don't know what penal substitution is, you may want to study it a bit and take a break from studying tongues.

I am not studing tongues...that is already manifesting in my life..but thanks for the advice!

Does the Bible ever says that Jesus experienced the punishment that we deserved? As I recall... Jesus took upon Himself all of the sins of all people throughout all time (Romans 5:6-8, 18-19, 1 Timothy 2:5-6, 1 John 2:2), and He endured the agony of bearing all of those sins. So let's think about that for a moment. When Jesus experienced the agony of bearing everyone's sins, was that the same punishment that you and I deserved? Obviously not, because after a sinner (i.e. an unsaved person) dies then he will be punished for his own sins, but the Bible never says that he will bear the punishment for everyone's sins. In other words, Jesus collectively paid for everyone's sins, which is different than what we would experience if we died without receiving salvation. Jesus did not receive the same punishment that we deserved.

Also, notice that no matter what punishment will be received by sinners after they die, Jesus did not experience that punishment. For example, some people believe that sinners will suffer in hell for all eternity, yet Jesus did not go to hell for all eternity. Other people believe that sinners will suffer in hell for a period of time and then be totally annihilated, yet Jesus was never annihilated (and never will be). Some people believe that sinners will suffer in hell for a period of time and then they will all receive salvation, yet Jesus did not suffer in hell and He never needed to receive salvation because He was never unsaved. So no matter what will happen to sinners after they die, notice that Jesus did not experience what they will experience. What it boils down to is that Jesus did not receive the same punishment that we deserved.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

I am not studing tongues...that is already manifesting in my life..but thanks for the advice!

Does the Bible ever says that Jesus experienced the punishment that we deserved? As I recall... Jesus took upon Himself all of the sins of all people throughout all time (Romans 5:6-8, 18-19, 1 Timothy 2:5-6, 1 John 2:2), and He endured the agony of bearing all of those sins. So let's think about that for a moment. When Jesus experienced the agony of bearing everyone's sins, was that the same punishment that you and I deserved? Obviously not, because after a sinner (i.e. an unsaved person) dies then he will be punished for his own sins, but the Bible never says that he will bear the punishment for everyone's sins. In other words, Jesus collectively paid for everyone's sins, which is different than what we would experience if we died without receiving salvation. Jesus did not receive the same punishment that we deserved.

Also, notice that no matter what punishment will be received by sinners after they die, Jesus did not experience that punishment. For example, some people believe that sinners will suffer in hell for all eternity, yet Jesus did not go to hell for all eternity. Other people believe that sinners will suffer in hell for a period of time and then be totally annihilated, yet Jesus was never annihilated (and never will be). Some people believe that sinners will suffer in hell for a period of time and then they will all receive salvation, yet Jesus did not suffer in hell and He never needed to receive salvation because He was never unsaved. So no matter what will happen to sinners after they die, notice that Jesus did not experience what they will experience. What it boils down to is that Jesus did not receive the same punishment that we deserved.

Astute observations. You just dismantled penal substitution. Did you realize that?

 

[awaken]

Astute observations. You just dismantled penal substitution. Did you realize that?

I was curious why you did not agree with # 6...
I have more...


1 John 4:10: "This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins."
Based on the many passages, here is what Christ did for us:
"redemption ... came by Christ Jesus"
"sacrifice of atonement"
"died for the ungodly"
"While we were still sinners, Christ died for us"
"we have now been justified by his blood"
"we [are] saved from God's wrath through [Jesus]"
"we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son"
"through [Jesus] we have now received reconciliation"
"the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men"
"through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous"
"died to sin once for all"
"You were bought at a price"
"gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age"
"gave himself for [us]"
"redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us"
"God sent his Son ... to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons"
"and through [Jesus] to reconcile to himself all things ... by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross"
"he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death"
"gave himself as a ransom for all men"
"gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify [us]"
"[made] atonement for the sins of the people"
"entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption"
"offered himself unblemished to God"
"died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant"
"entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence"
"appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself"
"was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people"
"we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all"
"offered for all time one sacrifice for sins"
"[we were redeemed] with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect"
"bore our sins in his body on the tree"
"the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin"
"the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world"
"an atoning sacrifice for our sins"
Notice that nowhere do those passages say that Jesus experienced the same punishment that we deserved. Instead, those passages tell us that Jesus' atoning sacrifice was a ransom which redeemed us and reconciled us to God. What it boils down to is that Jesus did not receive the same punishment that we deserved.

 

[Michael Wrenn]

I was curious why you did not agree with # 6...
I have more...


1 John 4:10: "This is love: not that we loved God, but that he loved us and sent his Son as an atoning sacrifice for our sins."
Based on the many passages, here is what Christ did for us:
"redemption ... came by Christ Jesus"
"sacrifice of atonement"
"died for the ungodly"
"While we were still sinners, Christ died for us"
"we have now been justified by his blood"
"we [are] saved from God's wrath through [Jesus]"
"we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son"
"through [Jesus] we have now received reconciliation"
"the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men"
"through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous"
"died to sin once for all"
"You were bought at a price"
"gave himself for our sins to rescue us from the present evil age"
"gave himself for [us]"
"redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us"
"God sent his Son ... to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons"
"and through [Jesus] to reconcile to himself all things ... by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross"
"he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death"
"gave himself as a ransom for all men"
"gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify [us]"
"[made] atonement for the sins of the people"
"entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption"
"offered himself unblemished to God"
"died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant"
"entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God's presence"
"appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself"
"was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people"
"we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all"
"offered for all time one sacrifice for sins"
"[we were redeemed] with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect"
"bore our sins in his body on the tree"
"the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin"
"the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world"
"an atoning sacrifice for our sins"
Notice that nowhere do those passages say that Jesus experienced the same punishment that we deserved. Instead, those passages tell us that Jesus' atoning sacrifice was a ransom which redeemed us and reconciled us to God. What it boils down to is that Jesus did not receive the same punishment that we deserved.

You have just enunciated in succinct form the Christus Victor view of the atonement which is what I believe. I have taken as much heat on here for that as you have about the spiritual gifts. :tonofbricks: