What is going on?

[John of Japan]

I'm not laughing because I have seen firsthand practical evidence ot eh kind of changes that begin when the music takes that kind of turn. Eventually, nearly all practical...and I think Biblical...standards of biblical conduct and practice are weakened or (in some cases) discarded entirely. The late,great Southside Baptist Church in Geenville SC were I was Baptised in 1977 is a perfect example. Ask John of Japan...he knows that one is true.

Bro.Greg

Sad memories. The latest about that church: they've dropped almost all of, or maybe all of their missionaries (don't know, but I was told all), including Baptist friends of ours who they had supported for decades. Now their missions effort is supporting a project in Africa to dig a well at a village--an effort led by Pentecostal missionaries! (This is hard to tell from their website, which still has a bunch of missionaries they supposedly support, including our friends.)

 

[Yeshua1]

Sad memories. The latest about that church: they've dropped almost all of, or maybe all of their missionaries (don't know, but I was told all), including Baptist friends of ours who they had supported for decades. Now their missions effort is supporting a project in Africa to dig a well at a village--an effort led by Pentecostal missionaries! (This is hard to tell from their website, which still has a bunch of missionaries they supposedly support, including our friends.)

I was raise dup spiritually in the Assemblies of God, and never really saw them acting wrongly towards others, even the baptists...

was my church back than an execption, or are the Assemblies more akin to us that to their Charasmatic chaos "bethren?"

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Sounds like.....

I was raise dup spiritually in the Assemblies of God, and never really saw them acting wrongly towards others, even the baptists...

was my church back than an execption, or are the Assemblies more akin to us that to their Charasmatic chaos "bethren?"

Brother...it sounds to me like you were just fortunate to be in an AoG church that might have had a more old-fashioned, conservative type of pastor or church leadership group. Don't know that for sure but I'm just guessing on the statement you just made.....!

Bro.Greg

 

[Berean]

Baptists have wholesale adopted their modes of worship. The doctrines will come in on the coattails of praise bands and worship teams.

Satan knowing the power of music to persuade the human mind has seized upon this to disrupt, corrupt and split thousands of churches, just as he used the R & R bands of the 60's, the BEETLES in particular to promote a drug culture and corrupt the morals of our society. How sad when it is perhaps the least significent part of our service. The Word and the offering (when done in the true spirit of giving) being the most.
As long as the lyrics are true to scripture I can tolerate the Energizer Bunny music if I am getting the Word. However I would not pay $40 for a concert. If our Sunday Morning crowds were polled with what they preferred I believe they would vote less Word and more "P & W." Music appeals to the sensual part of our make up and The word to our intellect and soul.

 

[12strings]

I'm not laughing because I have seen firsthand practical evidence ot eh kind of changes that begin when the music takes that kind of turn. Eventually, nearly all practical...and I think Biblical...standards of biblical conduct and practice are weakened or (in some cases) discarded entirely. The late,great Southside Baptist Church in Geenville SC were I was Baptised in 1977 is a perfect example. Ask John of Japan...he knows that one is true.

Bro.Greg

Sorry, I guess you know already I disagree with this statement...first because the type of music in these discussions is never defined...second because there are biblical, conservative churches that have guitars whose biblical standards have not lessened...some have actually increased from a time when they were very conservative musically but progressing liberally in theology. There are also many churches with traditional music that are hot-beds of gossip, or dying due to lack of spiritual fervour, or simply holding organ concerts instead of Services that preach the Gospel and sing praise to God.

Much of the CCM music DOES grow out of the Charismatic circles...but it is possible for those with discernment to take what is good while leaving what is not so good.

 

[12strings]

Satan knowing the power of music to persuade the human mind has seized upon this to disrupt, corrupt and split thousands of churches, just as he used the R & R bands of the 60's, the BEETLES in particular to promote a drug culture and corrupt the morals of our society. How sad when it is perhaps the least significent part of our service. The Word and the offering (when done in the true spirit of giving) being the most.
As long as the lyrics are true to scripture I can tolerate the Energizer Bunny music if I am getting the Word. However I would not pay $40 for a concert. If our Sunday Morning crowds were polled with what they preferred I believe they would vote less Word and more "P & W." Music appeals to the sensual part of our make up and The word to our intellect and soul.

1. Actually, in my church, if there was a vote, many would vote to have a southern Gospel concert instead of preaching! :laugh:

2. So no music then?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

1. Actually, in my church, if there was a vote, many would vote to have a southern Gospel concert instead of preaching! :laugh:

2. So no music then?

If thats true, I wouldn't stay in that particular church.....something has gone real wrong there.

 

[Yeshua1]

Brother...it sounds to me like you were just fortunate to be in an AoG church that might have had a more old-fashioned, conservative type of pastor or church leadership group. Don't know that for sure but I'm just guessing on the statement you just made.....!

Bro.Greg

Of ALL of the Charasmatic/pentscostal churches/groups, think AOG is closest to teaching 'sound doctrines and practices", as they have NOT endorsed word of faith/health and wealth modern day Apostles/prophets as of yet!

 

[12strings]

If thats true, I wouldn't stay in that particular church.....something has gone real wrong there.

I say that in jest...combining the fact that we have lots of Southern Gospel fans and the SINGLE occurrence of one older lady suggesting that we have an Easter musical on Sunday morning instead of a sermon.

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

The Truth...!

Satan knowing the power of music to persuade the human mind has seized upon this to disrupt, corrupt and split thousands of churches, just as he used the R & R bands of the 60's, the BEETLES in particular to promote a drug culture and corrupt the morals of our society. How sad when it is perhaps the least significent part of our service. The Word and the offering (when done in the true spirit of giving) being the most.
As long as the lyrics are true to scripture I can tolerate the Energizer Bunny music if I am getting the Word. However I would not pay $40 for a concert. If our Sunday Morning crowds were polled with what they preferred I believe they would vote less Word and more "P & W." Music appeals to the sensual part of our make up and The word to our intellect and soul.

Amen Brother:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup: PREACH!!!!! and GIVE (scripturally) I love good music that honors God....but it is the preaching/teaching of God's Word that should ALWAYS have the preeminence!

Bro.Greg:thumbsup:

 

[Mexdeaf]

Baptists have wholesale adopted their modes of worship. The doctrines will come in on the coattails of praise bands and worship teams.

Oh, baloney. Wait a minute, I take that back- baloney is too expensive to waste on this tripe.

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

This much I know....

Sorry, I guess you know already I disagree with this statement...first because the type of music in these discussions is never defined...second because there are biblical, conservative churches that have guitars whose biblical standards have not lessened...some have actually increased from a time when they were very conservative musically but progressing liberally in theology. There are also many churches with traditional music that are hot-beds of gossip, or dying due to lack of spiritual fervour, or simply holding organ concerts instead of Services that preach the Gospel and sing praise to God.

Much of the CCM music DOES grow out of the Charismatic circles...but it is possible for those with discernment to take what is good while leaving what is not so good.

Well...like I said...my experience in this church was first hand and Bro.John was related to some of the principles involved. That said, I don't disagree with everything you are saying and I don't believe there is a "one size fits all" formula for every church to follow in "cookie-cutter" fashion. I don't know if you did or not but go back and read John of Japan's response to me on this one. It is relevant. For the record....I don't have any problem with the tasteful use of guitars or other stringed instruments in our worship services (one of my favorites is a well-tuned 12 string:smilewinkgrin but I am less favorable to the use of heavy backbeats/rhythm with drum sets. Most drummers just can't resist the temptation to "stand out". It is too easily abused and detracts from what should be an air of at least some modicum of reverence. I was deeply involved in the classic rock scene before and even for a time after I was saved. The Lord deeply convicted me about that matter. I will never be able to accept that style of music as appropriate for Biblical,Christian worship. Much of the CCM music of our day either gets way too close to that line...or blindly crosses it entirely. That is my opinion. Peace brother.

Bro.Gregraying:

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Yes...

Of ALL of the Charasmatic/pentscostal churches/groups, think AOG is closest to teaching 'sound doctrines and practices", as they have NOT endorsed word of faith/health and wealth modern day Apostles/prophets as of yet!

Brother...you are probably right. The AoG people I have met over the years were for the most part sincere people who seemed to love the Lord deeply. I might not want to visit their churches but I'll fellowship with them on whatever ground I can. Much can be accomplished in Bible fellowship.

Bro.Greg

 

[Yeshua1]

Brother...you are probably right. The AoG people I have met over the years were for the most part sincere people who seemed to love the Lord deeply. I might not want to visit their churches but I'll fellowship with them on whatever ground I can. Much can be accomplished in Bible fellowship.

Bro.Greg

While attending there, ny best friend asked his IBF elder friend to attend a service, and he told the AOG pastor that he preached 'as a baptist!"

 

[John of Japan]

I was raise dup spiritually in the Assemblies of God, and never really saw them acting wrongly towards others, even the baptists...

was my church back than an execption, or are the Assemblies more akin to us that to their Charasmatic chaos "bethren?"

I have no problem with the old line Pentecostals if they reject all those Charismatic errors. My Baptist evangelist grandfather used to include them in his city-wide campaigns, promising not to talk about baptism if they would not talk about tongues, with everyone working to see the salvation of souls. I even have e book by Talmadge Spence (who was Pentecostal) opposing the Charismatics, Charismatism, Awakening or Apostasy? (BJU Press, 1978).

What I have a problem with is a church that was formerly Baptist dropping all of their missionaries, and supporting a social gospel approach led by Pentecostals--and there are few old line Pentecostals left, so chances are these are not just old line Pentecostals, but modern Charismatics. It is disturbing. Let the Charismatics and Pentecostals support their own missionaries.

 

[ktn4eg]

Forgot interpretative dancing---(ducks when Sister Ann reads this)

No, no, N - O ..... E, W, & F!!!!!

Once again, you've got it ALL WRONG!!!!

Just how MANY TIMES DO YOU HAVE TO BE TOLD??!!??

It's NOT "Interpretative DANCING," my brother and friend!!!!!!

No, NO, N - O !!!!!!

It's "Interpretative M - O - V - E - M - E - N - T "!!!!!!!

WAY, WAY BIG DIFFERENCE THERE , don't cha no ??!!??

















































( Do I have to 'splane EVERYTHING 2 U , BRO ??!!?? )
































:smilewinkgrin: :tongue3: :tonofbricks:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I say that in jest...combining the fact that we have lots of Southern Gospel fans and the SINGLE occurrence of one older lady suggesting that we have an Easter musical on Sunday morning instead of a sermon.

Ohhhhh Groan! ..... where these people from, NJ or NY!?!

Maybe I could get my niece to do an Interpretative Tap Dance recital dedicated to God. Now it wont be Handel's Messiah ....but....:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

It's "Interpretative M - O - V - E - M - E - N - T "!!!!!!!

I will show you a M - O - V - E - M - E - N - T..... ahhhh, forget about it!:tongue3:

 

[righteousdude2]

Please Accept my Apologies...

You have compared me to Jehovah's witnesses and say my beliefs are shallow and you say you don't insult me??
I have NEVER said that only my particular brand of Baptists will be in heaven, NEVER! Charismania is a false doctrine whether you believe it or not and that doesn't make me judgmental. This a common tactic by people who don't like their beliefs questioned. If I don't agree with you, I'm judgmental. I have never attacked you personally, only the doctrine you hold.

....I did not mean to insinuate that you were a JW.

As for you being judgmental, just as you see my doctrine as wrong, I see your comments as wrong, too! The difference is, you calim to be right, and those that challenge you are wrong.

Maybe calling what you do and say as JUDGMENTAL is too harsh, and I retreat and apologise.

Of course, this is one thing, since we interacted on this board, that you have never, once, reciprocated with, and that is any form of aplogy for your calling my doctrines "false." If that attitude is not judgmental in nature, then, please tell me what it is???

And while I'm asking you to respond to this, let me remind you that you have yet to reply to my request to tell us what you consider false charismania, and why? Apologies have to go to both ways, or that makes the other person appear to be correct, and then their opinion becomes a form of judgment, IMHO of course!

With that said, I agree that false doctrine will be judged. But, in most cases, so long as that false doctrine doesn't come between a person accepting Jesus as Savior [tongues and lifting hands will not seperate a person from confession of faith and the gift of their salvation], these folks will be standing next to you in glory, and I hope you won't be too hard on themshould they lift their hands and pray in tongues :laugh:

Again, please don't be so uptight with what I say. For sure, nothing you say upsets me. I know I have made mistakes in how I view some realms of doctrine. But the truth is, so have you, and so has every believer that follows Jesus. Just look at Paul and Peter. They were at odds, but at the end of the day, they are both in heaven worshipping God. And I truly believe that our erros on earth will be addressed in Glory by the author of faith, God!

 

[Yeshua1]

....I did not mean to insinuate that you were a JW.

As for you being judgmental, just as you see my doctrine as wrong, I see your comments as wrong, too! The difference is, you calim to be right, and those that challenge you are wrong.

Maybe calling what you do and say as JUDGMENTAL is too harsh, and I retreat and apologise.

Of course, this is one thing, since we interacted on this board, that you have never, once, reciprocated with, and that is any form of aplogy for your calling my doctrines "false." If that attitude is not judgmental in nature, then, please tell me what it is???

And while I'm asking you to respond to this, let me remind you that you have yet to reply to my request to tell us what you consider false charismania, and why? Apologies have to go to both ways, or that makes the other person appear to be correct, and then their opinion becomes a form of judgment, IMHO of course!

With that said, I agree that false doctrine will be judged. But, in most cases, so long as that false doctrine doesn't come between a person accepting Jesus as Savior [tongues and lifting hands will not seperate a person from confession of faith and the gift of their salvation], these folks will be standing next to you in glory, and I hope you won't be too hard on themshould they lift their hands and pray in tongues :laugh:

Again, please don't be so uptight with what I say. For sure, nothing you say upsets me. I know I have made mistakes in how I view some realms of doctrine. But the truth is, so have you, and so has every believer that follows Jesus. Just look at Paul and Peter. They were at odds, but at the end of the day, they are both in heaven worshipping God. And I truly believe that our erros on earth will be addressed in Glory by the author of faith, God!

do you see those such as Copeland/hagin/price/hinn etc , all in the Chasamatic circle, as being godly teachers, or epouse doctrines of demons?