Calvin on Regeneration

[percho]

The doctrine of the Holy Spirit's direct influence, is a fundamental truth of the gospel dispensation. That Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, and completed the great work for which he assumed our nature, is a truth that lies at the foundation of Christianity. The gospel reveals to us the Spirit as well as the Son. When about to leave the world, Jesus promised another comforter, who should dwell with his disciples for ever. The Holy Spirit, as God, had always been in the world: but he was now to be present by a peculiar manifestation and operation. This manifestation and operation attended the ministry of the Word on the day of Pentecost, and the gospel has always been the sword of the Spirit,[149] the instrument with which he operates in the fulfilment of his office for which he has come into the world, in answer to the prayer of Christ.

jlDagg

David in the ot psalm 51:
10 Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me.

11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

Icon

I would like to add and then make a comment.

1 Kings 18:37 Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou the LORD God, and thou hast turned their heart back again.

It was, is, and always will be God who changes and or turns our heart toward him.

Abraham wasn't walking around in Ur of the Chaldees looking for God. Abraham lived with father Terah an idol worshiper.

God called Abraham out of unbelief, an idol worshiper, unto belief.

God called Abraham for the purpose of bringing about to man, the man of faith, by which man could be justified (declared righteous) and then could receive salvation (the gift of God, eternal life).

God made a promise to Abraham that in his seed all the families of the earth would be blessed. That blessing comes by the gift of the promise of the Holy Spirit which would come to man through the one seed of Abraham, the Christ because of the faith. Jesus the Christ the Son of God, the seed of Abraham, was born of a woman, born under the law. See Gal. 3:14 which should end with the words, "the faith."
The Holy Spirit was given because of, "the faith,' of Jesus the Christ the seed of Abraham. It is he, the seed of Abraham who was to receive the promise of the Holy Spirit from his Father, God to be shed on man. Gal. 3:18,19 and Acts 2:33 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise. (Through his seed.) Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

According to Galatians 3:23 this was before the faith came.

Jesus Christ laid down his life in obedience of faith, because of another promise made by God who cannot lie, made before the first man Adam was created. The hope of eternal life. The gift of God. Through the Son of the living God, Jesus Christ our Lord. The seed of Abraham.

Gal 3:29 And if ye Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Because you are of the faith of Abraham, his seed.


IMHO the Holy Spirit sets one apart for regeneration, as in, Christ the firstborn from the dead, then we at his appearing and his kingdom, conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Born again/from above into the kingdom of God.


I care not what Bro. Cal or Bro. Arm.thought.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So you are saying there should be no discussion on this subject or any other for that matter?? Did you not enter into this debate on your own freewill?? Then when challenged to examine your beliefs you get offended??

So your teacher is the Holy Spirit, then i guess you have perfect doctrine and anyone who sees the scripture any other way than the way the HS has taught you is in error?? What about Ellen White and Joesph Smith? They claim the HS has taught them as well. I totally understand the role of the HS in teaching His children doctrine, but must we not search the scriptures and study to show ourselves approved? This is a debate board :love2:

nope....I never got offended. Next, some advice to you... dont guess, either you know or you dont know. Guessing is weak. & what about these people....I could give a shit. Lastly no kidding....any other attempt to act intelligent that you would like to reveal. Frankly, Im not impressed. Next. :laugh:

 

[Winman]

Icon

I would like to add and then make a comment.

1 Kings 18:37 Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou the LORD God, and thou hast turned their heart back again.

It was, is, and always will be God who changes and or turns our heart toward him.

Abraham wasn't walking around in Ur of the Chaldees looking for God. Abraham lived with father Terah an idol worshiper.

God called Abraham out of unbelief, an idol worshiper, unto belief.

God called Abraham for the purpose of bringing about to man, the man of faith, by which man could be justified (declared righteous) and then could receive salvation (the gift of God, eternal life).

God made a promise to Abraham that in his seed all the families of the earth would be blessed. That blessing comes by the gift of the promise of the Holy Spirit which would come to man through the one seed of Abraham, the Christ because of the faith. Jesus the Christ the Son of God, the seed of Abraham, was born of a woman, born under the law. See Gal. 3:14 which should end with the words, "the faith."
The Holy Spirit was given because of, "the faith,' of Jesus the Christ the seed of Abraham. It is he, the seed of Abraham who was to receive the promise of the Holy Spirit from his Father, God to be shed on man. Gal. 3:18,19 and Acts 2:33 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise. (Through his seed.) Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

According to Galatians 3:23 this was before the faith came.

Jesus Christ laid down his life in obedience of faith, because of another promise made by God who cannot lie, made before the first man Adam was created. The hope of eternal life. The gift of God. Through the Son of the living God, Jesus Christ our Lord. The seed of Abraham.

Gal 3:29 And if ye Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Because you are of the faith of Abraham, his seed.


IMHO the Holy Spirit sets one apart for regeneration, as in, Christ the firstborn from the dead, then we at his appearing and his kingdom, conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Born again/from above into the kingdom of God.


I care not what Bro. Cal or Bro. Arm.thought.

You still must repent and believe to receive the Spirit.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Peter told the Jews at Pentacost that they must repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus (and only believers were allowed to be baptized), and AFTERWARD they would receive the promise of the Holy Spirit.

Now, it is true that no one can come to God unless called, but it is the man who has to respond to God with his OWN faith. This is where you go wrong. Jesus often spoke of a person's faith as being their own.

Mat 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

I could show you MANY other verses where Jesus himself spoke of a person's personal faith. Why would Jesus marvel at the centurion's faith if he gave that faith to him? Nonsensical.

God gives you his word that you may believe, but you must believe, God does not believe for you.

 

[steaver]

nope....I never got offended. Next, some advice to you... dont guess, either you know or you dont know. Guessing is weak. & what about these people....I could give a shit. Lastly no kidding....any other attempt to act intelligent that you would like to reveal. Frankly, Im not impressed. Next. :laugh:

Sure sounds like offended to me........

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Sure sounds like offended to me........

Your way off.....but I dont want to become obtuse so continue with your debate....however Id like to know what your attempting to prove.

 

[steaver]

Your way off.....but I dont want to become obtuse so continue with your debate....however Id like to know what your attempting to prove.

What I am pointing out is that all those preachers who say they believe in TULIP are always preaching Armenian sermons! I asked you if your pastor does and for some reason that upsets you. Does he preach to the congregation to stop playing church any?? If he does, that is Armenian pov, not TULIP.

"obtuse" ? You don't hear that one much, I just heard it the other day watching "shawshank Redemption". Good movie! If your not offended then why the cussing??

 

[Iconoclast]

Icon

I would like to add and then make a comment.

1 Kings 18:37 Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou the LORD God, and thou hast turned their heart back again.

It was, is, and always will be God who changes and or turns our heart toward him.

Abraham wasn't walking around in Ur of the Chaldees looking for God. Abraham lived with father Terah an idol worshiper.

God called Abraham out of unbelief, an idol worshiper, unto belief.

God called Abraham for the purpose of bringing about to man, the man of faith, by which man could be justified (declared righteous) and then could receive salvation (the gift of God, eternal life).

God made a promise to Abraham that in his seed all the families of the earth would be blessed. That blessing comes by the gift of the promise of the Holy Spirit which would come to man through the one seed of Abraham, the Christ because of the faith. Jesus the Christ the Son of God, the seed of Abraham, was born of a woman, born under the law. See Gal. 3:14 which should end with the words, "the faith."
The Holy Spirit was given because of, "the faith,' of Jesus the Christ the seed of Abraham. It is he, the seed of Abraham who was to receive the promise of the Holy Spirit from his Father, God to be shed on man. Gal. 3:18,19 and Acts 2:33 For if the inheritance [be] of the law, [it is] no more of promise: but God gave [it] to Abraham by promise. (Through his seed.) Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

According to Galatians 3:23 this was before the faith came.

Jesus Christ laid down his life in obedience of faith, because of another promise made by God who cannot lie, made before the first man Adam was created. The hope of eternal life. The gift of God. Through the Son of the living God, Jesus Christ our Lord. The seed of Abraham.

Gal 3:29 And if ye Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Because you are of the faith of Abraham, his seed.


IMHO the Holy Spirit sets one apart for regeneration, as in, Christ the firstborn from the dead, then we at his appearing and his kingdom, conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Born again/from above into the kingdom of God.


I care not what Bro. Cal or Bro. Arm.thought.

Percho,
You are offering the correct verses and using them and seeing them correctly.There are some who offer verses and want each verse to stand on it's own legs which would contradict clear doctrinal passages.that is the mark of a false teacher,and false teaching which are to be avoided.

 

[percho]

You still must repent and believe to receive the Spirit.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Peter told the Jews at Pentacost that they must repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus (and only believers were allowed to be baptized), and AFTERWARD they would receive the promise of the Holy Spirit.

Now, it is true that no one can come to God unless called, but it is the man who has to respond to God with his OWN faith. This is where you go wrong. Jesus often spoke of a person's faith as being their own.

Mat 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; thy faith hath made thee whole. And the woman was made whole from that hour.

Mat 15:28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.

I could show you MANY other verses where Jesus himself spoke of a person's personal faith. Why would Jesus marvel at the centurion's faith if he gave that faith to him? Nonsensical.

God gives you his word that you may believe, but you must believe, God does not believe for you.

You miss the whole point of my post. Just as in 1 Kings 18:37

God turned their hearts toward him. God repented them.
These people were born under the law. They were under the schoolmaster the law, "shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed." The faith had to be revealed.

The faith was an event of Jesus the Christ, his obedience unto death. That, because he was raised from the dead by the Father removed them from being under the law, death forever.

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Is it not God who turns us toward him. Is it not by the faith of Jesus (If I go not away the Comdorter will not come.) we received the Spirit.

Romans 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal.

Did 7000 believe in God over the idol or did God reserve them in belief unto himself?

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this the whole of man.

Which you will not do by the way and the very reason the righteousness of God needs to be imputed to you, through the faith of, Jesus Christ.

 

[Iconoclast]

Merry Christmas!

Actually, I don't believe this is a matter of contention between Calvinism and Armenianism. I'm not either by definition because I reject some of each position.

I would agree 100% with your statement. There is an Election according to the foreknowledge of God. This does not affect the responsibility of men and women to make a choice concerning the gospel.

You must understand the biblical term foreknowledge correctly.

MacArthur is a Calvinist, but get this; this morning he was preaching on how one should examine themselves, whether they be regenerated or not, from Hebrews 3. Here John was giving a passionate plea to his listeners that they better make sure they are not just playing church, that they better make sure they have been regenerated!

This is EXACTLY what I was saying when I said how these preachers who believe in TULIP will preach the exact opposite of what they claim to believe.

If the man believes in TULIP then he has no business warning folks that they better examine themselves to make sure they are truly saved, because according to TULIP they have ZERO part in receiving salvation through regeneration!!

Unreal!

Your reaction to this quote along with your comments, shows that you do not understand the doctrine correctly. Johnny Mac is correct on this.

 

[Winman]

You miss the whole point of my post. Just as in 1 Kings 18:37

God turned their hearts toward him. God repented them.
These people were born under the law. They were under the schoolmaster the law, "shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed." The faith had to be revealed.

The faith was an event of Jesus the Christ, his obedience unto death. That, because he was raised from the dead by the Father removed them from being under the law, death forever.

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Is it not God who turns us toward him. Is it not by the faith of Jesus (If I go not away the Comdorter will not come.) we received the Spirit.

Romans 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to [the image of] Baal.

Did 7000 believe in God over the idol or did God reserve them in belief unto himself?

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this the whole of man.

Which you will not do by the way and the very reason the righteousness of God needs to be imputed to you, through the faith of, Jesus Christ.

The reason God reserved these 7000 men is because they did not bow their knee to Baal. Otherwise there is no need to mention this.

Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

If election is unconditional, there is no need for God to mention that these 7000 men had not bowed their knee to the image of Baal. This is WHY God chose these men, because they were faithful, they had faith in the true God and did not worship a false god as the other people did.

God does not believe for you, you must believe for yourself. Yes, you cannot believe what you do not know.

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Does Paul ask how they shall believe unless God has regenerated them and given them faith? NO, Paul simply asks how any man can believe in Jesus unless he has heard of Jesus.

The "faith" has been revealed through the word of God. Jesus revealed himself in the flesh, and since that time he has been revealed through the scriptures. All we need to do is hear the scriptures to have the ability to believe.

If God gives man faith, why would Jesus marvel at the centurion's faith?

Mat 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

If God gives men faith, then why would Jesus marvel at the centurion's great faith? He wouldn't, that makes absolutely no sense.

If I gave you a new car, would I marvel the next day when you drove up in that new car? Nonsense.

You are falling for false doctrine.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

What I am pointing out is that all those preachers who say they believe in TULIP are always preaching Armenian sermons! I asked you if your pastor does and for some reason that upsets you. Does he preach to the congregation to stop playing church any?? If he does, that is Armenian pov, not TULIP.

"obtuse" ? You don't hear that one much, I just heard it the other day watching "shawshank Redemption". Good movie! If your not offended then why the cussing??

No he is a Old School Baptist & he believes in Gods sovereignty in all things. He doesnt preach anything but gospel! Also where am I cussing?

 

[Iconoclast]

Oh brother, this is a Calvinist desperately trying to insert Total Depravity and Irresistible Grace into OT scripture where it is not shown. If anything, this text shows the very opposite;

2 Chron 30:6 So the posts went with the letters from the king and his princes throughout all Israel and Judah, and according to the commandment of the king, saying, Ye children of Israel, turn again unto the LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and he will return to the remnant of you, that are escaped out of the hand of the kings of Assyria.
7 And be not ye like your fathers, and like your brethren, which trespassed against the LORD God of their fathers, who therefore gave them up to desolation, as ye see.
8 Now be ye not stiffnecked, as your fathers were, but yield yourselves unto the LORD, and enter into his sanctuary, which he hath sanctified for ever: and serve the LORD your God, that the fierceness of his wrath may turn away from you.
9 For if ye turn again unto the LORD, your brethren and your children shall find compassion before them that lead them captive, so that they shall come again into this land: for the LORD your God is gracious and merciful, and will not turn away his face from you, if ye return unto him.

No mention of God irresistibly regenerating anyone here, the exact opposite is shown. Only if the Israelites conditionally TURN to God will he turn to them. Only if they first YIELD themselves to God will he turn his wrath and fierceness away from them.

There is no mention of God irresistibly causing the Israelites to repent, they must willingly and knowingly repent and turn to God, and upon this condition will God show them mercy.

No one in the OT had the indwelling Holy Spirit, and Romans 8:9 tells us if a person does not have the indwelling Spirit, then they are still in the flesh. Yet many people in the OT were able to believe and repent toward God. Total Inability is false doctrine.

To anyone who understands that God saves sinners in one way, they understand the text.You consistently isolate and fragment each text ...out of the whole of the bible...soo you will not see what the rest of us see.
you will re-write it according to yourself:thumbs:

No one in the OT had the indwelling Holy Spirit, and Romans 8:9 tells us if a person does not have the indwelling Spirit, then they are still in the flesh. Yet many people in the OT were able to believe and repent toward God. Total Inability is false doctrine.

Winman...you keep writing this as if no one knows it.We Do. Ot saints were moved upon by the Holy Spirit.....They were saved by the Holy Spirit. They were not promised to be sealed or indwelt as we are....but nothing says they were not. Your faLSE IDEA THAT UNSAVED PERSONS COULD SAVINGLY BELIEVE IS A WORKS BASED GOSPEL that is not taught anywhere. Salvation, election, regeneration, are biblical ideas...winmanisms are not.

 

[Winman]

To anyone who understands that God saves sinners in one way, they understand the text.You consistently isolate and fragment each text ...out of the whole of the bible...soo you will not see what the rest of us see.
you will re-write it according to yourself:thumbs:

Baloney, that whole article is a pathetic attempt to insert false Calvinist doctrine into the OT where it is not shown. I read his other articles and they are just as desperate. That fellow mentions ALL the scriptures I have shown in past posts that shows a person receives the indwelling Spirit AFTER believing. He knows the scriptures show faith precedes regeneration, but tries desperately to say scripture says the very opposite. He also knows that no one had the indwelling Spirit in the OT.

I would be embarrassed to present articles like this. Ridiculous.

 

[Winman]

To anyone who understands that God saves sinners in one way, they understand the text.You consistently isolate and fragment each text ...out of the whole of the bible...soo you will not see what the rest of us see.
you will re-write it according to yourself:thumbs:



Winman...you keep writing this as if no one knows it.We Do. Ot saints were moved upon by the Holy Spirit.....They were saved by the Holy Spirit. They were not promised to be sealed or indwelt as we are....but nothing says they were not. Your faLSE IDEA THAT UNSAVED PERSONS COULD SAVINGLY BELIEVE IS A WORKS BASED GOSPEL that is not taught anywhere. Salvation, election, regeneration, are biblical ideas...winmanisms are not.

You just go on believing ridiculous articles like those Hendryx wrote. You are only making a fool out of yourself.

 

[steaver]

Your reaction to this quote along with your comments, shows that you do not understand the doctrine correctly. Johnny Mac is correct on this.

I think you missed the part where I said I agree with John. Because John is preaching an Armenian pov in this sermon. He's not preaching TULIP!

 

[steaver]

No he is a Old School Baptist & he believes in Gods sovereignty in all things. He doesnt preach anything but gospel! Also where am I cussing?

I think all Christians whether they lean Arminian or Calvinist believe God's soverienty in all things. I know I do and I reject most of TULIP.

You know where....:love2:

 

[Winman]

I think you missed the part where I said I agree with John. Because John is preaching an Armenian pov in this sermon. He's not preaching TULIP!

The truth is, it is almost impossible to win a debate with a Calvinist, because they speak out of both sides of their mouth. They will tell you that God ordains all things that come to pass and they must unchangeably happen, and yet God is not the author of sin. Of course, this is a direct contradiction that cannot possibly be true, but Calvinists convince themselves it is true, they just call it a mystery. Problem solved. :laugh:

Very few ever come clean.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Hope your not referring to me or my pastor, neither of us are Calvinists...:smilewinkgrin:

PS: NOT Arminians either.

 

[percho]

The reason God reserved these 7000 men is because they did not bow their knee to Baal. Otherwise there is no need to mention this.

Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

If election is unconditional, there is no need for God to mention that these 7000 men had not bowed their knee to the image of Baal. This is WHY God chose these men, because they were faithful, they had faith in the true God and did not worship a false god as the other people did.

God does not believe for you, you must believe for yourself. Yes, you cannot believe what you do not know.

Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

Does Paul ask how they shall believe unless God has regenerated them and given them faith? NO, Paul simply asks how any man can believe in Jesus unless he has heard of Jesus.

The "faith" has been revealed through the word of God. Jesus revealed himself in the flesh, and since that time he has been revealed through the scriptures. All we need to do is hear the scriptures to have the ability to believe.

If God gives man faith, why would Jesus marvel at the centurion's faith?

Mat 8:10 When Jesus heard it, he marvelled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

If God gives men faith, then why would Jesus marvel at the centurion's great faith? He wouldn't, that makes absolutely no sense.

If I gave you a new car, would I marvel the next day when you drove up in that new car? Nonsense.

You are falling for false doctrine.

John 12:37-40 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with [their] eyes, nor understand with [their] heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

Just like these with Paul who could not understand like Paul who was called and heard and followed.

And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. Acts 9:7 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard (understood) not the voice of him that spake to me. Acts 22:9

They were not called and even though hearing their ears were not opened to understanding.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I think all Christians whether they lean Arminian or Calvinist believe God's soverienty in all things. I know I do and I reject most of TULIP.

You know where....:love2:

No I really dont know, nor do I care....you sort out your salvation & I sort out mine.