Featured The Doctrines of Grace and the preaching of the Gospel

Sorry to here about your struggles with violence...it is not the answer though, violence is not the fruit of the Spirit
Sorry you could not find the full quote...but not to worry...I found it in the interest of honesty: I stand by it....

I stand by it then and now.If anyone wants clarification on any point I will expand as you desire. If anyone wants to HONESTLY question the whole post as it is written without twisting my words we can discuss it....

This was the whole original discussion......as you can see I used jn 8 in this original post, [in context} as well as this thread.... so for anyone to lie and said i accused someone here is a falsehood.

I stand by everything i posted as biblical and can and will defend each proposition.

 

I have always believed that election is a doctrine for the Church. It is meaningless to the unsaved person. {I would note that Icon in an above post has done about as good a job as can be done if and when an unsaved person begins to ask questions regarding election. Obviously those questions must be answered but we don't begin our witness by questions or statements regarding election. It is obvious that many Christians on this Forum are unlearned regarding the Doctrines of Grace so it is unwise to assume the unsaved are conversant with them!} Many of those on this Forum who reject the Doctrines of Grace have shamelessly misrepresented those Doctrines and those who believe and preach those Doctrines. If a man is called to preach he will preach the Gospel to all. The elect do not have "ELECT" stamped on their forehead. Neither do the non elect have "666" stamped on their forehead. God through the Apostle Paul tells us:

Romans 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Those who are the elect and called by God will savingly respond to the preaching of the Gospel. I would remind all those Arminians on this Forum that Scripture tells us that the initial response to the effectual call of the Gospel is faith. The Doctrines of Grace, doctrines for the Church, tell us what precedes and causes that response.

I believe that the preaching of the Gospel includes the Whole Counsel of God, as someone has already noted. I have no doubt that a man called to preach the Gospel could start with John 3:16 and preach through the entire Bible with that verse as the starting point and that preaching would necessarily demonstrate that the Doctrines of Grace are Biblical.

The final chapter of the Bible tells us:

Revelation 22:17. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

 

Psalm 73:28
But it is good for me to draw near to God; I have put my trust in the Lord GOD, That I may declare all Your works.

Romans 4:5
However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

I don't see anyone who put their trust in the Lord has rejected the Doctrine of grace, but men understanding of it has made them reject what they have already accepted. They know it is an unmerited favor and don't deserve it, but they trust in the Lord that He will do what He said He would do.

 

That's just it, you don't preach from your perspective, you preach like an Arminian. I have seen Calvinists directly say they preach like Arminians. You don't tell folks what you really believe, you conceal that until after they believe, then you reveal your true beliefs to them.

It doesn't speak well of Calvinism that you must conceal your true beliefs and be deceptive in your presentation of the gospel. Of course, you will deny that you are deceptive. Let's just say you fail to tell folks EVERYTHING you really believe.

What did Paul say when he explained what the gospel was?

1 Cor 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Could you get up in front of a crowd of 15,000 folks in a stadium and honestly say, "Jesus died for your sins!" as Paul said?

You can't say that can you? Then you are not preaching the same gospel Paul did.

 

I went by an Atheist board that I used to moderate a Christian section on. Knowing they all like to celebrate Christmas, I recently went by and started a thread there called, “Jesus is the Reason for the Season” to rattle their cages and give an opportunity to plant some seeds and preach some hope for them.

It seems when it comes down to it many, if not all, Atheist will cling to their favorite argument which would support them having an excuse not to believe…especially if you bring up judgment. I never let them get away with that argument of having an excuse.

So anyway, one guy was getting really obstinate after I corrected him several times with scripture, then as usual he resorted to that the "Bible was just a man-made book argument" and that I had no credibility to my interpretations over his ridiculous antics of trying to twist them. Well that was easy enough to answer too pointing to 1 Cor 2 about who had more credibility.

That apparently really angered him and he tried to become really insulting and began calling me a bunch on names. I told him, “You have no excuses, but concerning this conversation you best lighten up before I go “DoG” on you!”


:laugh::laugh::laugh:

P.S. It was just a personal inside joke. I would NEVER do such a thing...nor would I EVER start teaching them what Calvinist/Determinst/DoG's preach about the "Gospel" to reinforce their arguments about them coming up with an excuse and enable them to go about to spread that evil to others while taking advantage of the Devil's tools.

1Jn 1:1-5 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (2) (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us (3) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. (4) And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. (5) This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.



Joh 1:9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

 

Personally speaking, never a charge from me. Do you also agree that one can also preach the Gospel without adherence and acceptance of the DoG theology?

 

I do not recall that you have made any untoward remarks at all in this debate. Certainly belief in the Doctrines of Grace is not a requisite for preaching the Gospel. As I noted above one of the closing passages of Scripture is:

Revelation 22:17. And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

That sad part is when statements are made like the following:

Emphasis is mine!

 

You are making a lot of sense, at least to me!

 

Of course they can't say it ..."truthfully" Winman. But they obviously do have their ways to disguise their "true" [sic] gospel.

Yeah, OR, Herold is making a lot of sense to me too concerning the "truth" in this matter!

 

Good, as a matter of fact...GREAT!!! Seems we may yet make some progress of drawing the truth out in this debate after all! Because that's all I needed from you to do is to stand by “your” words in the "context" in which they were given:

You got caught Icon, it's part of "your" (pre-selection and no hope) "true" gospel, live with it! Be true to your agenda in which you eagerly and proudly await to "help" the world understand!

Hey, got a funny story for you relating to “your” words! :thumbs: Wouldn’t want you to miss it:


I went by an Atheist board that I used to moderate a Christian section on. Knowing they all like to celebrate Christmas, I recently went by and started a thread there called, “Jesus is the Reason for the Season” to rattle their cages and give an opportunity to plant some seeds and preach some hope for them.

It seems when it comes down to it many, if not all, Atheist will cling to their favorite argument which would support them having an excuse not to believe…especially if you bring up judgment. I never let them get away with that argument of having an excuse.

So anyway, one guy was getting really obstinate after I corrected him several times with scripture, then as usual he resorted to that the "Bible was just a man-made book argument" and that I had no credibility to my interpretations over his ridiculous antics of trying to twist them. Well that was easy enough to answer too pointing to 1 Cor 2 about who had more credibility.

That apparently really angered him and he tried to become really insulting and began calling me a bunch on names. I told him, “You have no excuses, but concerning this conversation you best lighten up before I go “DoG” on you!”

Get it? :smilewinkgrin:


P.S. It was just a personal inside joke. I would NEVER do such a thing...nor would I EVER start teaching them what Calvinist/Determinst/DoG's preach about the "Gospel" to reinforce their arguments about them coming up with an excuse and enable them to go about to spread that evil to others while taking advantage of the Devil's tools.

1Jn 1:1-5 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (2) (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us (3) That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. (4) And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. (5) This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.



Joh 1:9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

 

Fact is, you can't get up in front of a big crowd and tell each person there that Jesus died for them as Paul did. You are not preaching the same gospel.

But you want the people to believe Jesus died for them, don't you? Of course you do. And you would be very careful to word your sermon and invitation to suggest that every person can be saved, wouldn't you?

You are not even true to yourself. I would hate to be a Calvinist/Reformed preacher. If I could not look each person in the eye and tell them Jesus died for them personally, then I could not preach to any.

You can pretend this problem doesn't exist, I have read articles where Reformed preachers admitted they had great difficulty preaching the gospel for these very reasons. It is a REAL issue.

The problem is, you are NOT preaching the same gospel as Paul, otherwise you could honestly tell every hearer that Jesus died for them.

 

I think we ALL in BB land agree with these faithful and true words.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

I got one like that too......in fact all my really serious hero's preach that way! :godisgood:

Very Merry Christmas to you brother.....next time your in NJ look me up.

Steve D

 

As well others here teach the LIE that we all have free will that will allow us to freely chose to accept/reject christ!