is it Heresy to deny doctrine of original/Imputed Sin?

[Thomas Helwys]

So should not Christ have came to undo the effects of the first adam?
through Adam all die--through Christ shall all be made alive.
Jesus came to seek and save THAT which was lost---what was lost?all of mankind through adam? if God can condemn mankind through 1 man--Can God also make righteous mankind through 1 man?Did not the man with 100 sheep lose 1 and leave the 99 that needed no help?if the man lost 70 of 100 he would have gone and gathered the 70 and brought them back?Why would Christ lower his standards to just a few?Oh the Glory that most are missing because of false assumptions and no knowledge!!!Christ went and bought back ALL that was LOST through 1 man adam.

Agree with this also.

 

[Herald]

So should not Christ have came to undo the effects of the first adam? through Adam all die--through Christ shall all be made alive.

The wonderful thing about Scripture is that it is balanced. Yes. Jesus Christ came to undo the effects of the first Adam, but that does mean the result is Universalism? The verse you are referring to (1 Cor. 15:21, 22) is Paul's teaching on the resurrection. Paul was writing to believers:

[15:1]*Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, [2]*and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

(1 Corinthians 15:1-2 ESV) (emphasis mine)

So, when Paul wrote, "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive" he was writing about believers. Paul was not teaching that sinners will be made alive in Christ. Quite the contrary. Our Lord said:

[24]*"I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins.”
(John 8:24 ESV)

[6]*Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
(John 14:6 ESV)

How does a person come to Father through Christ? By faith.

[5:1]*Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

(Romans 5:1 ESV)

[8]*For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
(Ephesians 2:8 ESV)

God does not "lower his standards" as you suggest. God's standard for eternal life has always been through faith in His Son. You either come to God through the Son, in the way Scripture prescribes, or you do not come at all.

 

[Bronconagurski]

Agree with this also.

So you believe in universalism, that everyone is ultimately saved?

 

[webdog]

So you believe in universalism, that everyone is ultimately saved?

Another non sequitur. Atoning for sin is not the same thing as salvation by grace through faith.

 

[Bronconagurski]

Another non sequitur. Atoning for sin is not the same thing as salvation by grace through faith.

I want to hear him say that, but thanks for your input. I understand that the atonement is effective enough to save everyone, but it is not applicable to everyone in that all are not saved. Hiswitness, to whom he was replying, believes all are saved because of what he said. So, begging your pardon, it is not another non sequitur.

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes, Christ came to save the lost. The doctrine of original sin, and total depravity, teaches that sin entered the world through Adam and all mankind is born sinners and slave to it.

If we deny this, then we must assume men are either born good or born as clean slates, as Herald reminded us some do teach. This cheapens the work of Christ. Many assume that there is at least enough good in men to choose to accept Christ. If that is true, then Christ could come, but would not need to be born of a virgin. All in all to deny the doctrines of sin makes more of men than we ought and makes less of Christ than He deserves.

Jesus death in the bible termininology was a penal substitutionary kind of atonement, definite One, that paid for specific sins...

His death sufficient to save ALL sinners, but was intended meant to save some only...

Those denying Sin of the fall being imputed make his death either a general One, or would haveto have it Univeralism if carried to logical conclusion!

It also begs the question of IF the Cross was a necessity, for IF we are not tainted win sin, why couldn't man live right enough to stay saved?

 

[Yeshua1]

[5]*The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
(Genesis 6:5 ESV)​

[9]*What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin,

(Romans 3:9 ESV)​

[12]*Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned—

(Romans 5:12 ESV)​

[21]*For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. [22]*For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
(1 Corinthians 15:21-22 ESV)​

Donald K. McKim's Dictionary of Theological Terms defines heresy as, "A view chosen instead of the official teachings of a church. Such a view is thus regarded as wrong and potentially dangerous for faith." The doctrine of original sin was first articulated by the post-Apostolic father, Irenaeus in the late 2nd Century. As with many points of doctrine of that time it was not addressed earlier because there were more pressing matters church leaders had to deal with, namely the assault on the nature and person of Jesus Himself. As Gnosticism gained traction in the 2nd Century, the need to address it's attacks on orthodoxy became necessary. It is true that the most detailed polemic on original sin was put forth by Augustine of Hippo, but the doctrine did not originate with him. The fact that the infant church of Rome accepted the doctrine does not make it a Roman doctrine, no more than their belief in the Trinity or the virgin birth make them Roman doctrines.

If man is not born in a state of sin then he is born in the original state of Adam; he is born posse peccare, posse non peccare (able to sin and able not to sin). From creation until now, Adam is the only human being created that possessed that ability. Since Adam every human being is born non posse non peccare (not able not to sin). Man is not in this predicament not only because he sinned, but because he is born into sin. Pelagius taught that man is born tabula rasa (blank slate), and is not endued with original sin. To a lesser extent semi-Pelagianism mimics this belief. Is the denial of original sin heresy? Most certainly. It leaves open the window (however small) that man can achieve righteousness without Christ, and, therefore, make Christ's sacrifice of no effect - in vain.

Paul taught it first!

What, you meean the "heretics" Augustine/Calvin did not amke it up without any biblical support?

 

[Luke2427]

Has the orthodox Church defined deniel of that as being such or not?

What is Baptist position on that?

Yes it is heresy.


The church settled that matter in the Augustinian/Arian controversy in the fourth and fifth centuries.

 

[Luke2427]

Another non sequitur. Atoning for sin is not the same thing as salvation by grace through faith.

Sure it is. It is a means to that end.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

This whole Semi Pelagian thing is heretical.... You know that Yeshua.

 

[webdog]

Sure it is. It is a means to that end.

Since according to you He only died for some humans, what happens to the rest of His creation? What is it groaning for if sin has only been lifted from the 'elect'?

 

[Yeshua1]

This whole Semi Pelagian thing is heretical.... You know that Yeshua.

I do, but amazing how many here seem to "not know that!"

 

[Magnetic Poles]

All of humanity's great advancements began as "heresy".

 

[drfuss]

What do Baptist believe?

From the SBC Baptist Faith and Message:

II. Man

Man is the special creation of God, made in His own image. He created them male and female as the crowning work of His creation. The gift of gender is thus part of the goodness of God's creation. In the beginning man was innocent of sin and was endowed by his Creator with freedom of choice. By his free choice man sinned against God and brought sin into the human race. Through the temptation of Satan man transgressed the command of God, and fell from his original innocence whereby his posterity inherit a nature and an environment inclined toward sin. Therefore, as soon as they are capable of moral action, they become transgressors and are under condemnation. Only the grace of God can bring man into His holy fellowship and enable man to fulfill the creative purpose of God. The sacredness of human personality is evident in that God created man in His own image, and in that Christ died for man; therefore, every person of every race possesses full dignity and is worthy of respect and Christian love.

 

[Herald]

What Baptists believed 156 years before the founding of the SBC:

1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith:

6.2 Our first parents, by this sin, fell from their original righteousness and communion with God, and we in them whereby death came upon all: all becoming dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body.
( Romans 3:23; Romans 5:12, etc; Titus 1:15; Genesis 6:5; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 3:10-19 )

6.3 They being the root, and by God's appointment, standing in the room and stead of all mankind, the guilt of the sin was imputed, and corrupted nature conveyed, to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation, being now conceived in sin, and by nature children of wrath, the servants of sin, the subjects of death, and all other miseries, spiritual, temporal, and eternal, unless the Lord Jesus set them free.
( Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21, 22, 45, 49; Psalms 51:5; Job 14:4; Ephesians 2:3; Romans 6:20 Romans 5:12; Hebrews 2:14, 15; 1 Thessalonians 1:10 )

 

[Herald]

What Baptists believed 201 years before the founding of the SBC:

1644 London Baptist Confession of Faith:

Part V

All mankind being thus fallen, and become altogether dead in sins and trespasses, and subject to the eternal wrath of the great God by transgression; yet the elect, which God has(1) loved with an everlasting love, are(2) redeemed, quickened, and saved, not by themselves, neither by their own works, lest any man should boast himself, but wholly and only by God of(3) His free grace and mercy through Jesus Christ, who of God is made unto us wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption, that as it is written he that rejoices, let him rejoice in the Lord.

1) Jer. 31:2
2) Gen 3:15; Eph. 1:3, 7; 2:4, 9; 1 Thes. 5:9; Acts 13:38
3) 1 Cor.5:21; Jer. 9:23, 24

 

[webdog]

What Baptists believed 201 years before the founding of the SBC:

1644 London Baptist Confession of Faith:

Part V

All mankind being thus fallen, and become altogether dead in sins and trespasses, and subject to the eternal wrath of the great God by transgression; yet the elect, which God has(1) loved with an everlasting love, are(2) redeemed, quickened, and saved, not by themselves, neither by their own works, lest any man should boast himself, but wholly and only by God of(3) His free grace and mercy through Jesus Christ, who of God is made unto us wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption, that as it is written he that rejoices, let him rejoice in the Lord.

1) Jer. 31:2
2) Gen 3:15; Eph. 1:3, 7; 2:4, 9; 1 Thes. 5:9; Acts 13:38
3) 1 Cor.5:21; Jer. 9:23, 24

Yes, dead in OUR sins and trespasses.

 

[Herald]

Yes, dead in OUR sins and trespasses.

Eph. 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Col. 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

We certainly are guilty for our own transgressions. I will not debate you on that point. But both of the verses (above) that I have used to defend the Reformed view of being spiritually dead do not negate what is called the "Federal Headship view." Adam, acting as our just and fair representative, acted on our behalf when he sinned in the garden. That is why in Adam, all die (1 Cor. 15:22). We are sinners at birth. The idea that we are somehow blank slates is a hard one to swallow in light of scripture.

 

[Iconoclast]

What Baptists believed 156 years before the founding of the SBC:

1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith:

6.2 Our first parents, by this sin, fell from their original righteousness and communion with God, and we in them whereby death came upon all: all becoming dead in sin, and wholly defiled in all the faculties and parts of soul and body.
( Romans 3:23; Romans 5:12, etc; Titus 1:15; Genesis 6:5; Jeremiah 17:9; Romans 3:10-19 )

6.3 They being the root, and by God's appointment, standing in the room and stead of all mankind, the guilt of the sin was imputed, and corrupted nature conveyed, to all their posterity descending from them by ordinary generation, being now conceived in sin, and by nature children of wrath, the servants of sin, the subjects of death, and all other miseries, spiritual, temporal, and eternal, unless the Lord Jesus set them free.
( Romans 5:12-19; 1 Corinthians 15:21, 22, 45, 49; Psalms 51:5; Job 14:4; Ephesians 2:3; Romans 6:20 Romans 5:12; Hebrews 2:14, 15; 1 Thessalonians 1:10 )

This statement is much clearer and biblically accurate than the BFM.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

And since people are posting Calvinist Baptist confessions, I'll post a link to the Declaration of Faith of Thomas Helwys, the first Baptist confession from the year 1611:

http://evangelicalarminians.org/Helwys-Declaration-of+Faith--The-First-Baptist-Confession