Featured Translating Lamb as Pig and Snow as Wool

John, I am curious, not arguing at all. What does a translator do if the language that scripture is being translated into does not have a word like "snow" or "shepherd" or "sheep"? I have wondered about this before as there are words and concepts in languages that simply are not there in other languages. I know a bit of Chinese and I know there are words that simply cannot be translated with one word from Chinese to English without loosing a whole bunch of meaning.

I suppose people in the part of Nigeria the pastor I spoke of has seen pictures of snow. But that is a guess.

But with a primitive people there may be no word for "sheep" as, at least at the time I heard the story a sheep had never been seen. It was an animal that simply did not exist in that small part of the world.

So, again ... what would be done? Translating must be exceedingly difficult.

 

Transliterate as JoJ said above. I think his philosophy is sound in terms of not wanting to present "another gospel". The images that lamb or snow evoke are vital to the picture of Jesus and the gospel. Changing Jesus to a pig herder changes the message. So transliterate the word and footnote what it means. Don't "dumb down" the translation, but rather teach up the people.

 

How is it dumbing it down if it makes it more understandable and meaningful?

Has the gospel been dumbed down when it is translated into English and meaning is lost because English does not have an equivalent word. For instance in Greek there are four words for "love" with four distinct meanings. In English we are limited to only one word, "love" and meaning is certainly lost in the translation.

Is there such a great difference between a Good Shepherd and a Good Pig Keeper? A Good Pig Keeper" might well be an extremely high compliment in some societies.

Again, not arguing, just discussing and looking for rational replies.

 

AMEN!

The way I understand it, it wasn't that long ago one of the primary reasons for learning to read was to be able to read the scriptures. It's untold what all has been 'learned' from them.

 

It is dumbed down when the illustrative nature of, say a lamb, has been reduced to something disgusting and repulsive. The illustration of a lamb going silently to slaughter is gone when you change it to a pig. Plus, since so much of Scripture uses the shepherd/sheep analogy in a variety of ways, it is a humongous thing to make shepherds into pig herders.

 

That which is considered disgusting and/or repulsive is cultural. An example:

There is a huge scandal going all around Europe just now about hamburger being laced with horse meat. Eating horse meat is very repulsive to many Europeans.

Now, there are a number of Kzack students here. One morning we asked two that we were talking to, "What do you miss eating from home?"

"Horse meat" they responded. "We cannot find it anywhere here."

What meat do they find most repulsive when it is being cooked? Beef.

 

But I'm not talking about food they simply eat. I'm talking about the animal that represents crudeness. There were probably very few pigs found in Israel. That is partly what makes the prodigal son story so shocking and illustrative.

At the same time, when you compare how sheep are maintained vs. pigs, how sheep are slaughtered to pigs, how sheep are herded compared to pig pens, and so on; all of the Bible's clever metaphors and illustrations break down.

It reaches a critical level when you consider that sheep die silently in a slaughter house. Pigs on the other hand make all kinds of raucous. That was used to illustrate the sacrificial lamb, the way in which Jesus acted at his crucifixion, and a whole host of other things. The illustration breaks down and thus the gospel message is distorted when you change sheep to pigs.

 

And that is all cultural. In the one instance I related there as no sheep in the country. People there had no idea what "sheep" meant.

Yes there is a difference. But that has nothing to do with helping people understand Christ.

Again, we are talking about helping people understand Jesus ... not understand about how animals are killed.

 

The way animals were killed was used to illustrate the gospel. What could be clearer. In your case it seems as clear as a pig rummaging in mud.

And just considering the dense amount of references to sheep and shepherds, much of the Bible would have to be changed to accommodate. If you cannot see these 2 things as quite grievous, then I'm shocked at your lack of understanding of the significance of the sheep/shepherd metaphors throughout and their significances especially to the gospel.

 

I can't believe Christians are even having this conversation. :tear:

Jesus was the LAMB slain before the foundation of the world.

Isaiah 53:7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.


A pig was an unclean animal according to God. Therefore to equate a pig to Jesus is at best just stupid and at worst, blasphemy.

If you don't know what a sheep is, look it up.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sheep

 

Not true. It is natural. There's no question that people can be conditioned to find unnatural and disgusting things quite attractive (homosexuality is big example), but there are some things that are simply disgusting and filthy by nature, and a natural disgust is a good and proper response to them.

 

Apparently because they don't care what God's word really says. Grrrr.

 

It's quite understandable, knowing CBT.

Ah yes, Christ, the Swine slain from the foundation of the world. Rings true in CBT's ears.

 

This is not a reply to CBT. This is just a response to his belching.

"Translating" shepherd as "swineherd" is a lie. Christ didn't say He was the good swineherd, He said he was the good Shepherd. And one makes it understandable and meaningful through education.

The Apostles didn't change the Hebrew Scriptures to make them relevent to the Gentiles. Both the Old and New Testaments contain gallons of milk for even newborn babes. I can't imagine a culture without a word for wife or husband.

 

Someone please tell me the four distinct meanings of love in Hebrew, i would be much abliged.