Southern Baptists and Slavery

[alvin]

The hidden history of the Southern Baptists. Why does this not matter? The Southern Baptist Convention was the only religious organization to have been founded on the defense of slavery. I would appreciate comments on my book on this subject. "Southern Baptists and Southern Slavery: The Forgotten Crime Against Humanity.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1482384663/?tag=baptis04-20

 

[Dr. Bob]

Interesting premise, Dr C. Probably will NOT go over well with the SBC!!

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I can tell you one thing: This statement is not entirely factual: "The Southern Baptist Convention was the only religious organization to have been founded on the defense of slavery."

Most of the major denominations split into northern and southern factions over slavery, including the Methodists and Presbyterians, splits that weren't healed until a century or so later.

 

[DHK]

The hidden history of the Southern Baptists. Why does this not matter? The Southern Baptist Convention was the only religious organization to have been founded on the defense of slavery. I would appreciate comments on my book on this subject. "Southern Baptists and Southern Slavery: The Forgotten Crime Against Humanity.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1482384663/?tag=baptis04-20

The Southern Baptist Convention is the only denomination to have been created from the idea that the African, by biblical decree, was forever doomed to slavery.

Does it matter?
First, the premise doesn't seem plausible; in fact it seems dubious.
Second, giving him the benefit of the doubt, what does it matter now?
Its relationship to the average baptist or SBC is just like the modern German to Hitler's regime of Nazism. It is history. One cannot correct the past. What was done was done. One needs to move on. The fathers and their future generations do not continue to pay for the sins of their past children (centuries removed).
All Baptists, including the SBC repudiate slavery today. Thus the case is closed.
When George Bush was president and used the word "crusade" in a speech the Muslims jumped on the word and accused this "Christian nation" of continuing "The Crusades" against the Muslims. Is this the mentality we are to expect? No. The past is past. No Baptist that I know believes in slavery today.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Does it matter?
First, the premise doesn't seem plausible; in fact it seems dubious.
Second, giving him the benefit of the doubt, what does it matter now?
Its relationship to the average baptist or SBC is just like the modern German to Hitler's regime of Nazism. It is history. One cannot correct the past. What was done was done. One needs to move on. The fathers and their future generations do not continue to pay for the sins of their past children (centuries removed).
All Baptists, including the SBC repudiate slavery today. Thus the case is closed.
When George Bush was president and used the word "crusade" in a speech the Muslims jumped on the word and accused this "Christian nation" of continuing "The Crusades" against the Muslims. Is this the mentality we are to expect? No. The past is past. No Baptist that I know believes in slavery today.

What does matter is someone putting out statements like this claiming historical accuracy. This is not historical accuracy; this is an agenda.

So, come on, Alvin, and challenge me on it. I dare you. You are in my area now: church history.

 

[DHK]

What does matter is someone putting out statements like this claiming historical accuracy. This is not historical accuracy; this is an agenda.

So, come on, Alvin, and challenge me on it. I dare you. You are in my area now: church history.

I would agree if it is a matter that needs refutation, and if he is slandering the SBC.

 

[Oldtimer]

Alvin, are you this person?

Rev. Dr. Alvin L. Carpenter
Presented at the 2012 100 Year Starship Symposium.

Title: The Non-Promise of Earth Bound Religions into Space.

The Christian religion is hostile to reason. Reason is a problem because it contradicts the idea of faith and faith is the very core of Christianity. “Without faith it is impossible to please God” (Hebrews 11:6). Christians are too close their mind to human knowledge for it can lead one astray, “Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto thy own understanding” (Proverbs 3:5). This is why they can believe all the animals, including dinosaurs, survived a global flood, the earth is only 6,000 years old and the 66 books of the bible are without error or contradictions in spite of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Whenever science and the bible disagree, it is science that is in error, always. http://www.alvincarpenter.com/

2012 PUBLIC SYMPOSIUM:
Transition to Transformation: The Journey Begins
The role of organized religion onboard a starship

“[The challenge of human interstellar travel is] more than a propulsion problem, more than an engineering problem. There are incredibly difficult social and cultural questions to answer as we go. [...]. Where are we going? Who gets to go? And what do we do when we get there? And most importantly, how does it benefit the people on earth? For the last few decades, astronauts and rocket scientists have been the face of space exploration but they weren’t the only ones making it happen. [...]. Achieving the capabilities for travel to another solar system will require a global, collaborative effort.” http://www.100yss.org/symposium.html

Excerpt: Southern Baptists and Slavery - The Forgotten Crime Against Humanity
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Southern-Ba...=UTF8&qid=1361236240&sr=1-2#reader_1482384663

 

[Thomas Helwys]

I would agree if it is a matter that needs refutation, and if he is slandering the SBC.

The statement that he made in his first post, which I referenced, is patently false, and that is provable.

I'm no particular fan of the present-day SBC, but that's neither here nor there.

What I said about the other denominations and slavery is fact, and you don't need to be a scholar to prove that, either.

He obviously has an agenda. I just wonder what it is, and why.

 

[preachinjesus]

I don't think anyone is trying to hide the historical beginnings of the SBC. In fact, with the election of Dr Luter as the president of the convention I believe this topic came up several times. Anyone who goes and reads the primary Baptist history or Church history texts that are used in the Southern Baptist seminaries will encounter this issue. Anyone who attends the history classes that are part of the core curriculum at any of the six SBC seminaries will encounter this issue. It isn't a hidden issue.

It is abundantly clear that this has been an issue and one that Southern Baptists have attempted to resolve, repent, and move on from.

While the Convention did begin with slavery as principal part of the reasons for separation, it isn't the only issue.

So, while I am glad to have time to engage in a constructive conversation about the issue, it is intriguing that a book's author would show up in this forum to advertise his book.

 

[alvin]

Comments on SOuthern Baptists and SOuthern Slavery

How interesting that so many are quick to condemn a book they have yet to read. There is nothing in this book except a history we all need to be aware of. Is this a matter of the past? That is for the of those whose descendants suffered under slavery to determine. Has the SBC offered a day of sorrow and repentance? No. Read the book then condemn it all you want.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

How interesting that so many are quick to condemn a book they have yet to read. There is nothing in this book except a history we all need to be aware of. Is this a matter of the past? That is for the of those whose descendants suffered under slavery to determine. Has the SBC offered a day of sorrow and repentance? No. Read the book then condemn it all you want.

As I said, your statement: "The Southern Baptist Convention was the only religious organization to have been founded on the defense of slavery" is false. Care to address your false statement? If your entire book is based on a false premise, what does that make your book?

The same division that happened with Baptists in the North and South also happened with northern and southern Methodists and Presbyterians.

 

[Bronconagurski]

How interesting that so many are quick to condemn a book they have yet to read. There is nothing in this book except a history we all need to be aware of. Is this a matter of the past? That is for the of those whose descendants suffered under slavery to determine. Has the SBC offered a day of sorrow and repentance? No. Read the book then condemn it all you want.

Symbolism over substance. Sheesh. We must all stand before the judgement seat of Christ, but I am quite sure that no one alive today will be judged for what a bunch of people already dead have done. Get a grip.

 

[alvin]

Premise is false?

You say the premise is false yet the whole purpose of this book is to demonstrate the accepted premise is incorrect. One would think that this point of inquiry into our past would be accepted. Read the book then lets talk. Who knows, maybe I am right and you are wrong. Should not all beliefs be open to revision, even our most cherished?

 

[12strings]

How interesting that so many are quick to condemn a book they have yet to read. There is nothing in this book except a history we all need to be aware of. Is this a matter of the past? That is for the of those whose descendants suffered under slavery to determine. Has the SBC offered a day of sorrow and repentance? No. Read the book then condemn it all you want.

I think the main objections are:

1. It is a history that a large number of people ARE aware of. So those who feel they DO know the general history are not going to read the book.

2. It doesn't seem helpful to make one group of people feel guilt about sins that a different group of people, at a different time committed. If that is the purpose of the book, then I believe it is misplaced. If, however, the purpose of the book is to teach us by their mistakes, to not repeat them, and to seek to not let biases of our own blind us to the truth, than that is a worthy goal.

3. I don't really know what you mean by a "day of sorrow and repentance." The SBC messengers have voted to publish an apology, and more importantly, have "repented" in that most SBC churches now oppose slavery and racism. So in the sense that repentance means to turn around, they certainly have.

 

[DHK]

How interesting that so many are quick to condemn a book they have yet to read.

It's condemned on its premise, whether it be right or wrong.

There is nothing in this book except a history we all need to be aware of. Is this a matter of the past?

And the past is past. Leave it there.

That is for the of those whose descendants suffered under slavery to determine.

Ludicrous!!
And should every living Japanese person ask millions of dollars in compensation because a bomb was dropped on their city in WWII.
Would every British person be eligible for compensation from the Germans because of German air-raids against them?
Or would the Germans still be demanding compensation for the loss of men incurred at the hands Western allies?
Shall we try to right all the injustices of the world that those in our multicultural society is composed of?
Your suggestion is absurd if not just plain silly.

Has the SBC offered a day of sorrow and repentance?

And why should they even if the book was right. I don't believe it is.
History is history. Have the Italians ever repented for their part in crucifying Christ?

No. Read the book then condemn it all you want.

I don't have to read it. Your suggestions are ridiculous.

 

[Thomas Helwys]

You say the premise is false yet the whole purpose of this book is to demonstrate the accepted premise is incorrect. One would think that this point of inquiry into our past would be accepted. Read the book then lets talk. Who knows, maybe I am right and you are wrong. Should not all beliefs be open to revision, even our most cherished?

You are not right, and I have already shown why. Again, you said, "The Southern Baptist Convention was the only religious organization to have been founded on the defense of slavery".

Sorry for the bolded emphasis, but that's what makes your premise wrong. Anyone who studies the history of the denominations leading up to the Civil War will see the facts. As I have stated and apparently need to state again, the Methodists and Presbyterians divided into northern and southern "denominations" over slavery. The Episcopalians divided also, but there was no formal break, and after the war they were soon reunited.

Seeing that you have a doctorate, you must know this, so why didn't you state instead that "The Southern Baptist Convention was one of several religious organizations to have been founded on the defense of slavery". You have thus based your book on a false and misleading premise. My question is, why? What is your purpose or agenda? Why have you singled out the Southern Baptists? Why not the Methodist Episcopal Church, South, (the name of the southern Methodist defection), and the southern Presbyterians?

I can see why you might want to explore the reasons for the founding of the SBC, but why single them out with a false premise? Can you answer me that?

 

[go2church]

Tough history for SBC when the topic of slavery comes up. Though it isn't exclusive to the SBC, we as a country have plenty to be embarrassed about. Not having read the book is the idea that the SBC is hiding something even now about slavery?

 

[righteousdude2]

Does it matter?

I, for one, am growing more tired with each passing day over those who continue to rehash the sins of our forefathers, centuries ago.

If the Word is correct, when a sin is repented of and absolved, it is removed as far as the east is from the west (Psalm 103:11-12).

I could care less, and I'm quite sure the Scripture bears this out and supports it, that the SBC once [in a galaxy, far, far away] supported slavery. Those days have passed us by, and what good does it do for the current and future work of the SBC, and any other church; to be rehashing this old sin?

I believe that the Scripture tells us in 2 Corinthians 5:17 - (NKJV), "Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."

And while this next Scripture has to do more with the believer once they get to heaven, it is still relevant to the above verse, Revelation 21:3-5 - (RSV), "and I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, the dwelling of God is with men. He will dwell with them, and they shall be his people,[a] and God himself will be with them; 4 he will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away. And he who sat upon the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Also he said, “Write this, for these words are trustworthy and true.”

It may not seem that simple to some of you, but it sure appears simple enough to me to proclaim that when we come to Him, and repent, and throw ourselves upon His grace, the old things are long gone, and we have a new slate.

I would wager to say that most SBC members know nothing about the past sins of their long-lost brothers for the days of slavery, and what they have going for them now, is what really matters to God.

Could the letter to the church of Sardis in Revelations 3 not be applicable to, let's say, the SBC? “And to the angel of the church in Sardis write: ‘The words of him who has the seven spirits of God and the seven stars."

“I know your works; you have the name of being alive, and you are dead. Awake, and strengthen what remains and is on the point of death, for I have not found your works perfect in the sight of my God. Remember then what you received and heard; keep that, and repent. If you will not awake, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come upon you. Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white, for they are worthy. He who conquers shall be clad thus in white garments, and I will not blot his name out of the book of life; I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels. He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

Do you not believe that those in the SBC have heard the words of judgment and repented and returned to the way they were before the sin of slavery ruled some among them?

I do, and the truth is, it is a matter between God and the SBC, not those who want to rehash the past, for whatever reasons.

I say, it's high time to move on. Let history be something we learn from, and hopefully through the Grace and power of our Lord and Savior; we will not allow history to repeat itself.

Pulling out the "slavery card" or the "race card" or the "Redman card" does no one any good. It is merely a form of self service to the person playing those cards, and it is not living according to what the Gospel told s us, we need to live by.

I say: "Enough is enough!"

 

[Arbo]

Read the book then condemn it all you want.

In other words, Let me make my buck first.

 

[Crabtownboy]

I believe that history bears it out that the SBC was founded primarily over the issue of slavery. In 1995 the following resolution apologizing for the support of slavery is available for all to read on the SBC web site.

Below is the resolution ....:

RESOLUTION ON RACIAL RECONCILIATION ON THE 150TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE SOUTHERN BAPTIST CONVENTION
June 1995


WHEREAS, Since its founding in 1845, the Southern Baptist Convention has been an effective instrument of God in missions, evangelism, and social ministry; and

WHEREAS, The Scriptures teach that Eve is the mother of all living (Genesis 3:20), and that God shows no partiality, but in every nation whoever fears him and works righteousness is accepted by him (Acts 10:34-35), and that God has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on the face of the earth (Acts 17:26); and

WHEREAS, Our relationship to African-Americans has been hindered from the beginning by the role that slavery played in the formation of the Southern Baptist Convention; and

WHEREAS, Many of our Southern Baptist forbears defended the right to own slaves, and either participated in, supported, or acquiesced in the particularly inhumane nature of American slavery; and

WHEREAS, In later years Southern Baptists failed, in many cases, to support, and in some cases opposed, legitimate initiatives to secure the civil rights of African-Americans; and

WHEREAS, Racism has led to discrimination, oppression, injustice, and violence, both in the Civil War and throughout the history of our nation; and

WHEREAS, Racism has divided the body of Christ and Southern Baptists in particular, and separated us from our African-American brothers and sisters; and

WHEREAS, Many of our congregations have intentionally and/or unintentionally excluded African-Americans from worship, membership, and leadership; and

WHEREAS, Racism profoundly distorts our understanding of Christian morality, leading some Southern Baptists to believe that racial prejudice and discrimination are compatible with the Gospel; and

WHEREAS, Jesus performed the ministry of reconciliation to restore sinners to a right relationship with the Heavenly Father, and to establish right relations among all human beings, especially within the family of faith.

Therefore, be it RESOLVED, That we, the messengers to the Sesquicentennial meeting of the Southern Baptist Convention, assembled in Atlanta, Georgia, June 20-22, 1995, unwaveringly denounce racism, in all its forms, as deplorable sin; and

Be it further RESOLVED, That we affirm the Bibles teaching that every human life is sacred, and is of equal and immeasurable worth, made in Gods image, regardless of race or ethnicity (Genesis 1:27), and that, with respect to salvation through Christ, there is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for (we) are all one in Christ Jesus (Galatians 3:28); and


Be it further RESOLVED, That we lament and repudiate historic acts of evil such as slavery from which we continue to reap a bitter harvest, and we recognize that the racism which yet plagues our culture today is inextricably tied to the past; and

Be it further RESOLVED, That we apologize to all African-Americans for condoning and/or perpetuating individual and systemic racism in our lifetime; and we genuinely repent of racism of which we have been guilty, whether consciously (Psalm 19:13) or unconsciously (Leviticus 4:27); and

Be it further RESOLVED, That we ask forgiveness from our African-American brothers and sisters, acknowledging that our own healing is at stake; and

Be it further RESOLVED, That we hereby commit ourselves to eradicate racism in all its forms from Southern Baptist life and ministry; and

Be it further RESOLVED, That we commit ourselves to be doers of the Word (James 1:22) by pursuing racial reconciliation in all our relationships, especially with our brothers and sisters in Christ (1 John 2:6), to the end that our light would so shine before others, that they may see (our) good works and glorify (our) Father in heaven (Matthew 5:16); and

Be it finally RESOLVED, That we pledge our commitment to the Great Commission task of making disciples of all people (Matthew 28:19), confessing that in the church God is calling together one people from every tribe and nation (Revelation 5:9), and proclaiming that the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ is the only certain and sufficient ground upon which redeemed persons will stand together in restored family union as joint-heirs with Christ (Romans 8:17).



http://www.sbc.net/resolutions/amresolution.asp?id=899