Featured Southern Baptists and Slavery

HeirofSalvation · Feb 19, 2013

Thomas Helwys said: ↑

One wonders why Alvin remains Southern Baptist
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He isn't a Southern Baptist...he's a troll. He is lying to you and all of us about his concerns. It is painfully obvious. "Slavery" as an institution...is never specifically condemned in the Scriptures. That's apparent to anyone who cares to research the topic..
The problem is the particular (racially motivated) form of slavery as practiced in the United States in that particular century.
In that period:
"Slaves" could be born into that status..(and that isn't Scriptural)
"Slaves" were NEVER capable of gaining "freedom" (also not Scriptural)
"Slavery" (in the Scriptures) was essentially a system of indentured servitude recognized by any and all civilizations at that time as a legitimate legal contract.
"Slavery" (in the Scriptures) included the "year of jubilee" wherein anyone who was a "slave" was automatically set free...this was not practiced in the U.S. in that period.

The SBC was "RIGHT" in the sense that the Scriptures DO NOT condemn "Slavery"...they were "wrong" in that "Slavery" as practiced in the United States and other places in that particular era wasn't even remotely similar to the "slavery" as out-lined in Jewish Law.

since he has a problem with its past and also its present. He doesn't like the position on homosexuality, for instance.
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This is because "Alvin" is clearly NOT a "Baptist" or in any way a "believer"...he is a troll and one who seeks to under-mine.
Do you SERIOUSLY believe that he is just the "humble old preacher" that he presents himself as????
Nope....he's a "WOLF" and he is in "Sheep's clothing" and it's insanely obvious.

I disagree with the denomination's stance on women pastors, and I have a few more doctrinal disagreements. And yet this is one of the few major denominations that has stood and continues to stand for traditional Christian morality. It is strongly pro-life, as am I. I applaud it for its stances on morals and the family
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I appreciate where you are here...
I haven't read the entire thread....I "used" YOUR response as a point to "but-in" so-to-speak...I was not responding to "YOU" per se.. I just couldn't stand reading three more pages before I got my two cents in.
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Mexdeaf · Feb 19, 2013

alvin said: ↑

Perhaps, since many on this forum are quick to condemn a book they never read, and it it obvious they are completely blind to the role Southern Baptists played in defending slavery at least read some history of this era before waxing eloquently on the matter. Judging by the incredible insensitivity displayed by the comments I have read I am assuming a gross lack of information regarding slavery. It will never be the prerogative of white America to say "forget about it." My book will not be the last written on this subject as more and more people are becoming aware of the role religion played in slavery. At least read something on this matter.
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What makes you think we are all so uninformed on this matter? All I see here is a supposed author whining because we won't buy or read his book. I'm done. :wavey:

alvin · Feb 19, 2013

Interesting reply

Again, we attack books we have never read and people we have never met. Why would anyone pretend to be a Southern Baptist pastor? My 40 years has been long and hard, as a pastor, but the most difficult has been my fellow Christians who should know things beyond what is written in the Baptist Faith and Message. Will we not be accountable for all those thing we should have known but chose to ignore because it is difficult to stand against the tide of consensus?

Zaac · Feb 19, 2013

alvin said: ↑

Again, we attack books we have never read and people we have never met. Why would anyone pretend to be a Southern Baptist pastor? My 40 years has been long and hard, as a pastor, but the most difficult has been my fellow Christians who should know things beyond what is written in the Baptist Faith and Message. Will we not be accountable for all those thing we should have known but chose to ignore because it is difficult to stand against the tide of consensus?
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But Dr. A why would be held accountable for things with which we had nothing to do?

It seems that most if not all freely acknowledge what the SBC and many other denominations did. But that was then. Why harp on it now?

Oldtimer · Feb 19, 2013

Did anyone notice the implication in his words?

There are a great many Southern Baptists who will do all they can to keep the truth of this matter out of sight from African Americans.
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How can any Southern Baptist keep the truth from any African American who wishes to review this part of history? The implication is strong that African Americans need his "truth" to reveal what has been "hidden".

Further, his words at his web site keep nagging at me, as I continue to read this thread.

Science and Religion http://www.alvincarpenter.com/

Presented at the 2012 100 Year Starship Symposium.

Title: The Non-Promise of Earth Bound Religions into Space.

This paper will ask a single question. A question upon which rides the success or failure of humankind’s next evolutionary step, the mutigenerational colonized interstellar starship. The question proposed for consideration is whether earth bound religions are suitable for spacefarers living on starships for perhaps thousands of years? Earth bound religions barely function on earth in a healthy manner, why would we think they would it would be any different on a colonized interstellar starship? Is there a single earth bound religion that has lived at peace with its neighbors, never shed the blood of another in the name of their God, that upholds the rights of all people of all color and sexual orientation, has never endorsed human bondage, advocated torture as a means to punish dissenters, never used coercion in any way and holds the betterment of all humanity even at the expense of their own demise? Is there any religion on earth that does not claim to hold the exclusive teachings of God? Is there any religion that does not have a book written by God and what is written in those books supersedes all human knowledge? Is there any religion that does not have agents ordained by God and as such have divine authority over others? Finally, is there a single religion that does not claim faith to be superior to all other forms of knowledge? If one can find such an earth religion that serves the betterment of all humankind even at its own expense…then it would be a welcome addition to spacefarers. However, there are none.

-----
The Bible is an earth book and on earth is where it must remain.

-----

I shudder to think there may a distant civilization that has taken to the stars and failed to leave their religions behind on their planet. There may be an alien missionary ship headed our way. As indigenous people know from around our globe, there was nothing more fearful than to see the missionary ship appearing on the horizon. When the missionaries arrived from Europe they stripped the natives of their religion and culture and forced a new religion upon them. Perhaps…we will find out what that feels like firsthand.

Respectfully submitted,

Rev. Dr. Alvin L. Carpenter

Pastor, First Southern Baptist Church West Sacramento Ca
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And he has said: http://www.space.com/17659-interstellar-travel-religion-conflict.html

"The only way humanity can survive is if they leave behind the Earth-based religions," charged Rev. Alvin Carpenter, pastor at First Southern Baptist Church West Sacramento. "If there's any way to make this fail, bring Earth-bound religions."

Religions, he argued, breed aggression and conflict, citing the violent history of his own faith, Christianity, in episodes such as the Inquisition and the Crusades. Many religions' negative stance on homosexuality has driven young gay people to commit suicide, he said.

"When you bring a religion on a starship, you bring the toxicity that we have seen on Earth," Carpenter argued. "This is something that we do not wish to export to the stars."

"All it takes is one charismatic fundamentalist, with a Bible or a Koran in his or her hand," to spark conflict aboard a starship, he added.

-----

Carpenter, however, advocated leaving religions behind on Earth, to allow room for new ways of thinking.

"I think space-born religion is going to be based on science," he said.
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A pastor of a Christian church advocating leaving the word of God behind to allow room for new ways of thinking. One who visits a Baptist forum to hawk his "truth" of what has been hidden from a portion of our population who's prior generations lived the TRUTH.

BTW.......

NASA's 100-Year Starship Project Sets Sights on Interstellar Travel
NASA's Ames Research Center and the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA) are collaborating on the $1 million 100-Year Starship Study, an effort to take the first step in the next era of space exploration. http://www.space.com/11200-nasa-100-year-starship-interstellar-travel.html
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Oldtimer · Feb 19, 2013

alvin said: ↑

Again, we attack books we have never read and people we have never met. Why would anyone pretend to be a Southern Baptist pastor? My 40 years has been long and hard, as a pastor, but the most difficult has been my fellow Christians who should know things beyond what is written in the Baptist Faith and Message. Will we not be accountable for all those thing we should have known but chose to ignore because it is difficult to stand against the tide of consensus?
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I'm reminded of one of my favorite Bible passages:

Ephesians 6: KJB

9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

alvin · Feb 19, 2013

100 Year Starship

I was invited to present a paper at this meeting of the greatest scientists of the world. What did you think I would say regarding the future of humanity? To take with them Scientologists, Roman Catholics, Baptist fundamentalists, Islamist, and all the rest and they will get along just fine. My paper was applauded by the scientific community, damned by the religious. No surprise there. Is religion contentious, divisive, and is used to subject people to others who have the power to do so? Because I was selected many were angry...because they were not. I did not go to represent Southern Baptists, perhaps you would have. I do not know. What good is a sound mind if all you do is reflect the thoughts of others? If you dare to think critically about anything you will be condemned by those who do not.

Tom Bryant · Feb 19, 2013

Been reading thru this thread and one word keeps coming to my mind

ALVIN!

alvin · Feb 19, 2013

Thanks...my daughter sitting next to me got a laugh out of that, as did I. Pretty funny.

just-want-peace · Feb 19, 2013

alvin said: ↑

I was invited to present a paper at this meeting of the greatest scientists of the world. What did you think I would say regarding the future of humanity? To take with them Scientologists, Roman Catholics, Baptist fundamentalists, Islamist, and all the rest and they will get along just fine. My paper was applauded by the scientific community, damned by the religious. No surprise there. Is religion contentious, divisive, and is used to subject people to others who have the power to do so? Because I was selected many were angry...because they were not. I did not go to represent Southern Baptists, perhaps you would have. I do not know. What good is a sound mind if all you do is reflect the thoughts of others? If you dare to think critically about anything you will be condemned by those who do not.
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Kinda reminds me of My first car-the horn got stuck in the "on" position, & I had to sever the battery power to shut it off.

I do believe that Bro. Alvin needs a quick disconnect!

Thomas Helwys · Feb 19, 2013

alvin said: ↑

Perhaps, since many on this forum are quick to condemn a book they never read, and it it obvious they are completely blind to the role Southern Baptists played in defending slavery at least read some history of this era before waxing eloquently on the matter. Judging by the incredible insensitivity displayed by the comments I have read I am assuming a gross lack of information regarding slavery. It will never be the prerogative of white America to say "forget about it." My book will not be the last written on this subject as more and more people are becoming aware of the role religion played in slavery. At least read something on this matter.
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I can assure you that I have read as least as much as you and I'd bet much more.

Thomas Helwys · Feb 19, 2013

just-want-peace said: ↑

Kinda reminds me of My first car-the horn got stuck in the "on" position, & I had to sever the battery power to shut it off.

I do believe that Bro. Alvin needs a quick disconnect!
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He's already disconnected, from reality.

DHK · Feb 19, 2013

alvin said: ↑

Perhaps, since many on this forum are quick to condemn a book they never read, and it it obvious they are completely blind to the role Southern Baptists played in defending slavery at least read some history of this era before waxing eloquently on the matter. Judging by the incredible insensitivity displayed by the comments I have read I am assuming a gross lack of information regarding slavery. It will never be the prerogative of white America to say "forget about it." My book will not be the last written on this subject as more and more people are becoming aware of the role religion played in slavery. At least read something on this matter.
Click to expand...

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