Southern Baptists and Slavery

[Thomas Helwys]

I wonder how many respondents on this topic that are saying, "this is in the past," and "we have already apologized" and "no reprations are in order" are white southerns. It is not for us to say "it is in the past," and reparations are not in order. Southern Baptists offer up a pathetic apology for racism and claim it is an apology for their practice of and denfese of slavery. I am surprised a sing African American would want to become a part of and SOuthern Baptist Church. There are a great many Southern Baptists who will do all they can to keep the truth of this matter out of sight from African Americans.

Did your ancestors cheat Indians out of their land and do other injustices? It's a safe bet that they did. Will you issue a public apology for it?

I ask again, why do you single out Southern Baptists when other denominations were guilty of the same thing? If you have such a problem with the SBC, why don't you defect to the Alliance of Baptists? Seems you would fit right in with their pro-choice, sodomy-affirming far-left loons. And I say that being one who has some issues with the SBC. Now if I have mischaracterized you and you are liberal only on the gay issue, please tell me.

 

[Zaac]

I wonder how many respondents on this topic that are saying, "this is in the past," and "we have already apologized" and "no reprations are in order" are white southerns. It is not for us to say "it is in the past," and reparations are not in order.

Then who is it for to say? I wasn't here when Southern Baptists first started so why would I be apologizing for something I didn't do???

How many folks are alive right now who used to be slaves?I don't know a single Southern Baptist today who had anything to directly do with slavery. So it is indeed in the past.

Southern Baptists offer up a pathetic apology for racism and claim it is an apology for their practice of and denfese of slavery. I am surprised a sing African American would want to become a part of and SOuthern Baptist Church. There are a great many Southern Baptists who will do all they can to keep the truth of this matter out of sight from African Americans.

This is crazy. Racism is not uniquely confined to the SBC. It is a societal issue.

Why wouldn't a Black person want to be a part of a SB church that is a part of their community?

Not forgiving people for past racism is as big a sin as past racism.

 

[Luke2427]

You started a thread about knowing history or keeping quiet ... not your words as your words were insulting.

With your reply to this thread you have shown a great ignorance of slavery in Biblical times versus slavery in the last few centuries. Thus, you fail in your history.



There are many links where you can be educated on the differences between slavery in Biblical times an in the past few centuries. Just a few:

http://www.preachingtoday.com/illustrations/2010/april/7041910.html

http://www.myjewishlearning.com/texts/Bible/Torah/Deuteronomy/Biblical_Slavery.shtml

http://www.baptistbiblebelievers.com/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=oZbCPrE7GnE=&tabid=232&mid=762

It sure would be nice if you'd start actually READING the posts BEFORE you respond to them.

Did I SAY it was the same thing??

Did I not SAY it could have been done BETTER?

Only an idiot does not know that biblical slavery and any OTHER KIND OF SLAVERY IN HISTORY has differences.

So why don't you hang this straw man of yours back on its post and stop debating it and ACTUALLY DEBATE A LIVING BREATHING ACTUAL PERSON?

 

[Thomas Helwys]

Then who is it for to say? I wasn't here when Southern Baptists first started so why would I be apologizing for something I didn't do???

How many folks are alive right now who used to be slaves?I don't know a single Southern Baptist today who had anything to directly do with slavery. So it is indeed in the past.



This is crazy. Racism is not uniquely confined to the SBC. It is a societal issue

Why wouldn't a Black person want to be a part of a SB church that is a part of their community?

Not forgiving people for past racism is as big a sin as past racism.

Alvin should go down to Atlanta and tell all of Charles Stanley's black members that they shouldn't be there.

 

[blackbird]

Then who is it for to say? I wasn't here when Southern Baptists first started so why would I be apologizing for something I didn't do???

How many folks are alive right now who used to be slaves?I don't know a single Southern Baptist today who had anything to directly do with slavery. So it is indeed in the past.



This is crazy. Racism is not uniquely confined to the SBC. It is a societal issue

Why wouldn't a Black person want to be a part of a SB church that is a part of their community?

Not forgiving people for past racism is as big a sin as past racism.

I remember being a part of the SB convention meeting where we did bring the slavery issue to the forefront of the convention floor and the convention passed a sounding resolution ASKING forgiveness in our role of slavery ------- we were a bunch of 20th Century believers who were asking forgiveness for something that was done during the centuries before----so we asked forgiveness of our brothers and sisters for our roll-----I then leaned over to my wife and made the comment something like


Asking forgiveness is the easy part

Forgiveing is the hard part

To not ask forgiveness is a sin

To not forgive is a sin

To the which ----- Zaac----I appreciate your post, brother!!!

 

[Luke2427]

But of course it is:




http://www.sbc.net/aboutus

Wait a minute, Quote-master.

Are you saying the SBC is NOT OPEN TO CALVINISM?

I wait with baited breath for your answer... Except there won't be one because you don't ACTUALLY debate; you just go around hiding in the shadows leaping out with a quote out of context and fleeing back into the shadows.

 

[Zaac]

Alvin should go down to Atlanta and tell all of Charles Stanley's black members that they shouldn't be there.

He'll need to go on to Woodstock to and tell Johnny Hunt, the American Indian, that all his black members need to leave too. What about Elizabeth Baptist and their 10000 members or Second Ponce de Leon?

If Southern Baptists keep preaching an unadulterated Gospel of Jesus Christ, people of all skin colors will continue to join SBC churches.

Non-white SBC churches were 5% in 1990. They were at 20% in 2012. There are nearly a million Blacks in SBC churches. Wonder what some are suggesting these folks do?

Heaven is gonna be an awful place for some folks if they plan on bringing all their racial hangups with them.

 

[MB]

The hidden history of the Southern Baptists. Why does this not matter? The Southern Baptist Convention was the only religious organization to have been founded on the defense of slavery. I would appreciate comments on my book on this subject. "Southern Baptists and Southern Slavery: The Forgotten Crime Against Humanity.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/1482384663/?tag=baptis04-20

I wonder do you feel guilty for your fore fathers practice of slavery?. You must because you wish to lay guilt on Southern Baptist for what there fore fathers did.
The reason I ask is that it was your fore fathers who sold your ancestors into slavery in the first place. In fact it was your fore fathers who invented slavery.
I know don't tell me you don't believe that. Well look in the Bible to see who first enslaved another race. You will find it was you fore fathers the Egyptians.
MB

 

[DHK]

I wonder how many respondents on this topic that are saying, "this is in the past," and "we have already apologized" and "no reprations are in order" are white southerns. It is not for us to say "it is in the past," and reparations are not in order. Southern Baptists offer up a pathetic apology for racism and claim it is an apology for their practice of and denfese of slavery. I am surprised a sing African American would want to become a part of and SOuthern Baptist Church. There are a great many Southern Baptists who will do all they can to keep the truth of this matter out of sight from African Americans.

Alvin, of what ethnic background are you? Where are your ancestors from. You surely are not native American are you? By your logic you should be deported back to your country of origin (as should all Americans), and the entire U.S. given back to the native aboriginal peoples. Now that is just repatriation. That is true repentance backed up with an apology. Are you willing to put teeth behind your words and be consistent with what you are saying?
Or, is the past now considered history, unchangeable, and "in the past."

 

[nodak]

Oh please.

Many of my ancestors were not even in the USA until slavery had been abolished.

Some of mine did indeed own slaves (after coming here as indentured servants) but I can read the record where as they got saved and became Baptists they began working under the laws of the time to provide freedom for them.

By the time I came along, the family vehemently denied having been slave holders. While it wasn't true, I do believe the simple fact was they had come to see slavery for the evil it was, repudiated it, had no good access to family history such as the internet, and so couldn't believe their ancestors had participated.

Another part of my ancestor was spending time trying to scalp the other two parts. In time they walked the trail of tears.

Others of my ancestory fought for the north in the civil war--and some for the south.

So who owes me what and to whom do I owe what? Wars happen. Some win. Some lose. And we move on.

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

Controversy warning!!!

I wonder how many respondents on this topic that are saying, "this is in the past," and "we have already apologized" and "no reparations are in order" are white southerns. It is not for us to say "it is in the past," and reparations are not in order. Southern Baptists offer up a pathetic apology for racism and claim it is an apology for their practice of and denfese of slavery. I am surprised a sing African American would want to become a part of and SOuthern Baptist Church. There are a great many Southern Baptists who will do all they can to keep the truth of this matter out of sight from African Americans.

CONTROVERSY WARNING: For those who are weak-of-heart stop reading now because I am NOT politically-correct and you may be offended!!!

I am a resident and a product of the deep south and have lived here all my life. I was raised in an SBC church and although my sympathies lie more with IFB churches these days I still attend a small conservative SBC assembly. I am 58 years old and have lived through all the racially-charged unrest over the last 50+ years even experiencing some of the results of it. My old (now deceased) SBC grandparents were raised to believe and practice that the only black folks who entered their home were people that WORKED THERE. My old Granddad regularly used the "N" word when talking about them...but NEVER in a mean way...oddly enough I actually think he used it as a term of some form of endearment(although I do NOT endorse such use today). What was strange was the unusual affection they actually had for those folks. My parents actually employed a black "maid" and paid her well for the work she did. I loved that lady like she was my mom. Her name was Mrs. Mary Davis and I can tell you that in all the years since I knew her I have never tasted a chocolate-iced yellow layer cake like the ones she used to make! She was a wonderfully affectioned part of our family for most of my pre-teen years in Spartanburg,SC. All that said...I was the first and only member of my family to ever bring home one of my black friends from high school in the late-60's. My friend Clarence and his two brothers Tank, and TJ (both on the football team:laughwere some of my closest friends and I often wonder what happened to them. I met them while being involved in the Young Life club I was a part of in Charlottesville Va in the mid 60's. I loved those guys.I remember that it made my parents very "uncomfortable" due to their "up-bringing". For the record, to this day...my unsaved brother is one of the most terribly prejudiced people that I know even to this very day. Over the years some of the best and most respected friends and acquaintances I have known have been black and I love them dearly. I guess I was the rebel in my family. For the record, the ONLY problem I have with our current President has nothing to do with the color of his skin but rather the nature of his politics and his morals(which STINK in my opinion). While I believe the Word of God does indeed acknowledge that the practice of servitude or "slavery" existed in this fallen world(and still does today), I in no way believe that it ENDORSES or positively directs or commands that the practice of it be perpetuated. Regardless of why the SBC was founded (and I was aware of it) it does NOT practice or endorse such behavior today so there is no point in taking the lid back off the garbage can at this point in time unless you have some warped political agenda. Any attempt to do so can only be some racially-charged attempt to incite or inflame people. Racist organizations like the NAACP and folks like Al Sharpton,Jesse Jackson (both of them "reverends"...imagine that),etc., (to name a few) have been attempting to do this kind of stuff for years. They are every bit as racist as the KKK and any of the white-supremacist groups in existence today in my opinion. I am definitely suspicious when someone like the "Rev."Dr. Carpenter wants to drag this stuff back up and try to get people all stirred up for no good reason. I repudiate the past and think the best thing to do is LEAVE IT THERE as much as possible while still acknowledging the facts of history. Without having actually read Dr. Carpenter's book all I can really say is that IF it just outlines a balanced account of the actual history then it will stand on the value of that. I have always believed there is truth in the cliche that says "he who does not know history is doomed to repeat it"....so in THAT there may be value. However....IF Dr. Carpenter's book is an attempt to lay a sense of misplaced GUILT on modern day Southern Baptists for the sins of their forefathers then I soundly reject that just as I do reject any idea that we need to apologize (OR PAY REPARATIONS) for something we had nothing to do with. The whole idea that we need to apologize OR pay anybody anything is a scam and should be dismissed as such. All that said...If someone offered me a copy of the book I might read it out of an interest in history (I do love history...mostly Bible,military,maritime,railroads,etc.) but I refuse to be sucked into a vacuum of misplaced guilt for something I had nothing to do with. I have enough I could feel guilty for (if it weren't for the Blood of Jesus! AMEN) without somebody trying to drop something on me that I have or had nothing to do with!

Now...as to the racial thing....there are no true racial distinctions anyway....WE ARE ALL MEMBERS OF THE SAME RACE.......THE HUMAN RACE. It has been ably proven by groups such as Answers in Genesis and the venerable Institute For Creation Research that the differences in skin color and minor variations in physical features are nothing more than the product of minor variation in mixtures of genetic material and DNA as the human race AND the animal kingdom continue reproducing over the years since day one in the Garden of Eden. Humans are still humans, monkees are still monkees, dogs are still dogs, and cats are still cats. Evolution is a lie....but that is a topic for other threads.

In reference to all this about the past, I think we would all do well to regard the words of the apostle Paul, under God's direct inspiration who said, in Philippians 3:13 & 14:
"Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended:but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before.
I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."

The bottom line is RACISM is just another sin that is a natural progression of the corruption of God's perfect creation that began in Genesis at the fall. He's going to bring things to a close and solve all this...and maybe VERY soon! As Bro.James says often...Even so,come Lord Jesus!

Bro.Greg

 

[just-want-peace]

Those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it; but those who LIVE in the past are doomed to forever wallow in it.
Your choice!

 

[alvin]

Echoes of the past

Many of these posts sound like the same voices that justified slavery in the 19th century. The past is not something one can sweep under the rug as if it never happened. Obviously, there are many here who have yet to read a singe book on slavery in the Americas, the Middle passage, or the current social issues that are a direct result of slavery. Personally, I cannot look at an African American and not feel deeply grieved at what role the Southern Baptists played in the terror of his/her grandparents. My book is only part of the story, as you well know...when slavery was ended, by war, Southern Baptists were deeply involved in racism. And no one on this board thinks this is a problem? Let the past remain buried. I suppose you would like it to remain buried.

 

[DHK]

Oh please.

Many of my ancestors were not even in the USA until slavery had been abolished.

Some of mine did indeed own slaves (after coming here as indentured servants) but I can read the record where as they got saved and became Baptists they began working under the laws of the time to provide freedom for them.

By the time I came along, the family vehemently denied having been slave holders. While it wasn't true, I do believe the simple fact was they had come to see slavery for the evil it was, repudiated it, had no good access to family history such as the internet, and so couldn't believe their ancestors had participated.

Another part of my ancestor was spending time trying to scalp the other two parts. In time they walked the trail of tears.

Others of my ancestory fought for the north in the civil war--and some for the south.

So who owes me what and to whom do I owe what? Wars happen. Some win. Some lose. And we move on.

That is exactly my point. Wars happen and we move on, even if, in those wars atrocities happen that we don't like to think about. Perhaps slavery wasn't a war, but it is just as much of history as any war. We move on. There is no apology, no repentance, etc., needed today. We move on. This generation does not carry on the sins of the past. History is history.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Many of these posts sound like the same voices that justified slavery in the 19th century. The past is not something one can sweep under the rug as if it never happened. Obviously, there are many here who have yet to read a singe book on slavery in the Americas, the Middle passage, or the current social issues that are a direct result of slavery. Personally, I cannot look at an African American and not feel deeply grieved at what role the Southern Baptists played in the terror of his/her grandparents. My book is only part of the story, as you well know...when slavery was ended, by war, Southern Baptists were deeply involved in racism. And no one on this board thinks this is a problem? Let the past remain buried. I suppose you would like it to remain buried.

I think the problem is in your mind- pardon my bluntness.

And I wonder how much of the profits from your book will go toward alleviating the problem?

 

[12strings]

Many of these posts sound like the same voices that justified slavery in the 19th century. The past is not something one can sweep under the rug as if it never happened. Obviously, there are many here who have yet to read a singe book on slavery in the Americas, the Middle passage, or the current social issues that are a direct result of slavery. Personally, I cannot look at an African American and not feel deeply grieved at what role the Southern Baptists played in the terror of his/her grandparents. My book is only part of the story, as you well know...when slavery was ended, by war, Southern Baptists were deeply involved in racism. And no one on this board thinks this is a problem? Let the past remain buried. I suppose you would like it to remain buried.

That's the problem with your premise...The past is not buried.

1. Ask 1000 random Southern Baptists if they know their convention was founded because the southern baptists wanted to keep their slaves...I bet most will say yes.

2. Ask those same 1000 SBCers if they believe their forerunners were wrong...I bet most will say yes.

If I'm right about this, then what exactly is the point you are trying to make?
We already know the general history, though I'm sure your book would give us more details. We already disapprove of thier actions. We already readily accept African Americans as equal SBCers and Elect them as our President...so, EXACTLY what would you recommend?

Also, by the very nature of the SBC, and the fact that many of its churches have been started in the last 50 years, with influences from other baptists groups, so really, if there is guilt to spread around, it should not be limited only Southern Baptists, but to all who have any connection in any way to past slave-owners...which is pretty much everybody.

 

[Gregory Perry Sr.]

A Dead Issue

Many of these posts sound like the same voices that justified slavery in the 19th century. The past is not something one can sweep under the rug as if it never happened. Obviously, there are many here who have yet to read a singe book on slavery in the Americas, the Middle passage, or the current social issues that are a direct result of slavery. Personally, I cannot look at an African American and not feel deeply grieved at what role the Southern Baptists played in the terror of his/her grandparents. My book is only part of the story, as you well know...when slavery was ended, by war, Southern Baptists were deeply involved in racism. And no one on this board thinks this is a problem? Let the past remain buried. I suppose you would like it to remain buried.

There is a reason why dead things get buried. Alvin....it is a dead issue and yes...it did stink. When we bury dead people we cover them with 6ft of dirt to hide the stink of decomposition and they rightly place a headstone to provide a proper remembrance. Maybe your little book is the headstone???? I don't think one poster on here has tried to deny the facts of history. Our reaction is based on the detrimental effects of racial-motivated activism which just serves to try and stir up the fallen passions of people who seem to live ONLY for the next axe-to-grind. As a resident and "son" of the south I have a real problem with these folks who are still so "stuck" in the past that they are seemingly still trying to fight the civil war. It was a dark time in our country's history that certainly needs to be properly and accurately depicted and remembered SO THAT WE NEVER MAKE THAT SAME MISTAKE.However, as for the slavery issue...I really don't and can't believe that there is ever any danger that that will ever happen again in this country. My opinion is that you should let this dead horse lie where it belongs....in the past and in the "grave". If you are a truly born-again evangelical Christian then your (and my) chief pursuit OUGHT TO BE doing all we can to fulfill the Great Commission and win as many as we can to saving faith in the Lord Jesus Christ in the time we have remaining in the closing days of the church age in which we are now living. Social engineering and racially-motivated endeavors have little or no value in light of the real truth and God's desires for His redeemed people. We need to "redeem the time" (Col.4:5,6).

Bro.Gregraying::saint:

 

[alvin]

Interesting to note

I cannot help but notice the majority of those who are wish to "forget the whole thing" are from the South.

 

[Bronconagurski]

I cannot help but notice the majority of those who are wish to "forget the whole thing" are from the South.

Mostly we object to carpet baggers trying to make merchandise of us.

 

[DHK]

I cannot help but notice the majority of those who are wish to "forget the whole thing" are from the South.

I have been objecting all along. A few hundred miles north (not too far), I would be in the land of the mid-night sun.